Long Welds in 5052

[Bob La Londe]

A Waco 2050-16 is .080 and all welded. I do note that the welded Trackers seem to all have .100 skins now, but in the past they had thinner hulls. I recently rebuilt the collapsed bow of an older welded Tracker (a 16 footer rater for 60hp) that had .080 skin. Its certainly do able, but I can't believe they are doing it by welding a couple inches, and walking away for several minutes to allow it to cool before coming back and welding the next couple inches. Nor are the welds pretty enough to indicate they were robot welded. Even on 0.100 I can't run continuous beads very far. If everything is just perfect you can get maybe 6-8 inches before its to overheats and drops out. I am looking for something better.

I was told that a pulse MIG was the way to do this, but it sounds like from the way this conversation has been diverted that an Everlast pulse MIG can't do it.

(Actually to be fair Tracker is probably robot welding on their newest boats. They have gotten so big compare to other aluminum boat manufactures that it makes sense for them.)

[Rambozo]

A Waco 2050-16 is .080 and all welded. I do note that the welded Trackers seem to all have .100 skins now, but in the past they had thinner hulls. I recently rebuilt the collapsed bow of an older welded Tracker (a 16 footer rater for 60hp) that had .080 skin. Its certainly do able, but I can't believe they are doing it by welding a couple inches, and walking away for several minutes to allow it to cool before coming back and welding the next couple inches. Nor are the welds pretty enough to indicate they were robot welded. Even on 0.100 I can't run continuous beads very far. If everything is just perfect you can get maybe 6-8 inches before its to overheats and drops out. I am looking for something better.

I was told that a pulse MIG was the way to do this, but it sounds like from the way this conversation has been diverted that an Everlast pulse MIG can't do it.

(Actually to be fair Tracker is probably robot welding on their newest boats. They have gotten so big compare to other aluminum boat manufactures that it makes sense for them.)

Robot or manual makes very little difference. If your parts are not pre-heated to soak temp, you will need a spoolgun with remote control, or a machine with a programmed mode. Once you build some heat, you can back off the current(wire speed) and rock on. True, standard or pulse on pulse would help, but it is by no means required. At the moment Everlast has several standard pulse models, but no pulse on pulse models, that I am aware of. You might call to check the industrial line as I have heard there are other machines there, that are not listed on the website.

[Bob La Londe]

Robot or manual makes very little difference. If your parts are not pre-heated to soak temp, you will need a spoolgun with remote control, or a machine with a programmed mode. Once you build some heat, you can back off the current(wire speed) and rock on. True, standard or pulse on pulse would help, but it is by no means required. At the moment Everlast has several standard pulse models, but no pulse on pulse models, that I am aware of. You might call to check the industrial line as I have heard there are other machines there, that are not listed on the website.

I know its not required. I can make the welds now to some degree by using very particular methods, but again I want something better.

And, I don't have a clue how you would preheat a sheet 16 feet long and 4 feet wide. Weld inside a giant oven while wearing an air conditioned fire suit?

[Blaster]

And, I don't have a clue how you would preheat a sheet 16 feet long and 4 feet wide. Weld inside a giant oven while wearing an air conditioned fire suit?

I don't think you'd have to heat the Whole thing, once you got going it would take care of that itself...

[Bob La Londe]

I don't think you'd have to heat the Whole thing, once you got going it would take care of that itself...

The problem is it builds to much heat in the weld area and drops out. On modest length welds you just have to walk away for a few minutes and let it cool. On longer welds you can do short 1/2 to 1 inch stitch welds every 6 inches or so, and then do fill beads between them. Then you go back and forth making your fill beads in alternating areas a couple feet apart. Its a very particular process, and it does work, but again.... I was looking for something better. Which was why I was looking at Pulse MIG. And I had the chance to burn a rather longish weld using a Miller 350P a while back that rather impressed me. I just can't justify the cost of a 350P.

I think I already said all of that earlier in this thread.

While I admit I am a novice welder, I am not asking (nor was I ever in this thread) how to weld aluminum with my Miller 212, but what rig other than my 212 (in my price range) might make it easier and faster and hopefully better than the process I have to use with it.

As to robot welding... Lets not assume that its not programmed to make current and frequency adjustments based on feedback. They don't just stick a MIG gun in a mechanical hand and call it a robot welder. LOL.

[Blaster]

I'm certainly no expert at this but, it seems to me that if it "builds too much heat in the weld area and then drops out" you're using too much current (maybe to compensate for the "cold" condition of metal at the beginning of the weld). If the amps were set right for the "built-up heat" then the preheating at the start would make the material ready for that setting from the begining...

No?

[Yofish]

The problem is it builds to much heat in the weld area and drops out.

What do you set the volts at? Frankly, it sounds like your procedure is right. Of course, pulse will help but walking away when the heat builds is SOP.

Your experimentation with the contact tip set back is compliments of the geniuses at Miller that decided you don't know better. Their 'Qwik-tip' is an abomination.

[Bob La Londe]

I just use the chart on the welder for speed and power settings, although I have found it likes a little more wire feed speed (not much) than is says on the chart for aluminum for almost all thicknesses listed. My experiments outside the listed working range of the gun have all been hit and miss, but extrapolated from the chart. I suppose I could try going colder and slower with a preheat. The only time I've done preheating before has been on 3/8. 3/8 is the thickest aluminum the welder is rated for, but it will NOT do a passable job without preheating.

I think I might have mentioned before that I can almost wallow around like you can on steel with 1/4" aluminum.

[Yofish]

A Waco 2050-16 is .080 and all welded. Even on 0.100 I can't run continuous beads very far. If everything is just perfect you can get maybe 6-8 inches before its to overheats and drops out. I am looking for something better. [/I]

Bob, I looked up the company that builds the boat you talk about, they have been in business since 1960. Of course, we know they didn't have the equipment we have today back then. How do you suppose they did those welds over 50 years ago? My guess is the same way as they have always - nothing fancy required - turn the volts down and stitch.

[performance]

Bob, I looked up the company that builds the boat you talk about, they have been in business since 1960. Of course, we know they didn't have the equipment we have today back then. How do you suppose they did those welds over 50 years ago? My guess is the same way as they have always - nothing fancy required - turn the volts down and stitch.

No, they probably would have TIGed it back then...just like a lot of companies that work aluminum commercially still do.