Everlast minimum storage temps.

I need to bring an old thread back up, UPS dropped off my replacement 250ex last night, this welder is a replacement for a welder I sent in a while ago for warranty work.

They dropped it in front of my closed shop last night and it sat out all night, its 6 degrees right now, I know it was at least -12 below zero farenheit last night.

So the question, was this welder damaged by the cold overnight temps?

I'm not looking for guesses or theories, I need to know Everlasts opinion.

If it was damaged, I will refuse the package and send it back without even opening the box.

Glad to hear Everlast is helping to resolve your problems. With the 250EXT

In the original thread that Todd references, the concern was allowing electrolytic capacitors to freeze, and damage that may result. I suspect that is the reason for Todd's question (not to speak for you, Todd). I moved my machine from an unheated to a heated space on the strength of that thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kenwhite

If you are asking just about temperature, then no, a -12F storage temperature will not damage the box.

Just be sure it warms for a long enough period of time to dry out any condensation that occurs when moving it from one temperature extreme to the other.

While, I am not Everlast, I am very familar with electronic design specifications, but maybe Everlast will chime in.

---

Thanks Ken, I know you are very good with electronics ( your posts are always informative and dead on accurate ), but I need to know the companys thoughts, there was a lot of unclear information on freezing capacitors not to long ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Powertig

Glad to hear Everlast is helping to resolve your problems. With the 250EXT

---

They are working on the EXT problems ( I hope! ), this is different Everlast welder that I have had for a while and sent in for repair.

Here's UPS's response-


Dear Todd,

Thank you for your e-mail. I have forwarded your concerns to the local package center for further assistance. You can expect a call by the end of the business day on 01/27/12.

I apologize that your packages were not delivered during your business hours.

Please contact us if you need any additional assistance.

Agnes L.
UPS Customer Service
UPS now has a new app that lets you Track, Ship, Find Locations and obtain rate quotes directly from your smartphone. Go to m.ups.com or visit ups.com to learn about Apple and BlackBerry device-specific applications.

Good thing Everlast ships via UPS, if they had used U.S. mail, your response email would have started out "Dear John" not "Dear Todd" ;) And who names their kid Agnes? Oh well.

So we can store our inverter machines in -12 Fahrenheit?

No you shouldn't store them in -12 degrees, any more than they should be stored in the rain. But if it warms up before it is used, a one time exposure shouldn't hurt the unit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

No you shouldn't store them in -12 degrees, any more than they should be stored in the rain. But if it warms up before it is used, a one time exposure shouldn't hurt the unit.

---

I didn't ask about rain, I'm not looking for a shouldn't. I want to know if the shipping company damaged this unit by leaving it exposed to the weather overnight. If a capacitor freezes at 20 degrees, it will freeze on the first exposure not just the second or third.

Someone else from Everlast please respond with a yes or no answer, I want to be sure this thing is OK before I dig this thing out of the box and end up with another uncomfortable mess. I don't need the shippers problems to become my problems.

Todd,
It was a comparative point, not directed at you, but at I love plasma...Storing routinely below 0 like that is no better than leaving it out in the rain routinely. A one time event with either as long as it is properly dried or warm should not cause a major issue.

And since I am from Everlast, and work with this part and you asked for Everlast's Opinion as above, I will address the question.

Warm it up before using it, to over 25 or 30 degrees and it should be fine. The major immediate issue is a frozen display, or sluggish one to respond below 20 degrees. It's likely with the insulation the box provides and the packing that the unit itself did not reach that low of a temperature internally. When things warm up they should be ok.

If you have doubts though yourself, you should do what you think is best with the shipper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

Todd,
It was a comparative point, not directed at you, but at I love plasma...Storing routinely below 0 like that is no better than leaving it out in the rain routinely. A one time event with either as long as it is properly dried or warm should not cause a major issue.

And since I am from Everlast, and work with this part...

Warm it up before using it, to over 25 or 30 degrees and it should be fine. The major immediate issue is a frozen display, or sluggish one to respond below 20 degrees. It's likely with the insulation the box provides and the packing that the unit itself did not reach that low of a temperature internally.

---

Cardboard box, insulation, really??? How about answering the question with something other than "should" or "likely"

What part of Alaska is Ray in? How do you keep the welders warm in railcars or boats or semi trailers ( besides the cardboard box theory )?

I will repeat, if this welder was damaged by the cold, I will not even open the box.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

Todd,
It was a comparative point, not directed at you, but at I love plasma...Storing routinely below 0 like that is no better than leaving it out in the rain routinely. A one time event with either as long as it is properly dried or warm should not cause a major issue.

And since I am from Everlast, and work with this part and you asked for Everlast's Opinion as above, I will address the question.

Warm it up before using it, to over 25 or 30 degrees and it should be fine. The major immediate issue is a frozen display, or sluggish one to respond below 20 degrees. It's likely with the insulation the box provides and the packing that the unit itself did not reach that low of a temperature internally. When things warm up they should be ok.

If you have doubts though yourself, you should do what you think is best with the shipper.

---

I just caught your edit. Everlast is the shipper, I am TRYING to give you a heads up on a possible problem.

The shipping company then, according to our terms and policy is the one responsible for the damage. I am sure Ray will drop by to give his thoughts.
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/terms.html

OK,
Quick call to the office and Oleg says they will stand behind it if there is a problem. ( Straight and to the point ).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kenwhite

Todd, now that you have the answer about your box, the storage temperature for commercial grade wet-type electrolytic capacitors is -40C -> +80C.

---

Ken, thanks again. I think -40C is almost = to -40F.

So If they are commercial grade wet-type electrolytic capacitors, we are golden.

How would you be able to identify the grade visually?

Just out of curiosity, what parts in our welders dictate the storage temps ?

There's some omron & goodsky signal relays in my LX225 that are only rated to -25C. The caps are all -40/+85.

Of course it's the moisture that's the real concern.

I’ll type up something when I have time, if you guys want my opinion.

But briefly, most of the temp guidelines I have ever seen are right up there with the 6 man tent or lifetime knife, but the other way. Nearly an arbitrary “line in the sand” outside of what is normally experienced. Mil specs excluded.

But in the meantime, Ken knows what he talking about.

The biggest issue is condensation, if it’s that cold Todd, I probably don’t have to tell you how dry the air is.
If the shop is warm and moist however, but a fan on it. Otherwise, just be careful if moving it around, until it warms up, the plastic and more so the cables get very brittle and can break.

Unofficially, Todd you have nothing to be concerned about. Just like Ken said make sure it’s warm and dry before powering on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ray

I’ll type up something when I have time, if you guys want my opinion.

But briefly, most of the temp guidelines I have ever seen are right up there with the 6 man tent or lifetime knife, but the other way. Nearly an arbitrary “line in the sand” outside of what is normally experienced. Mil specs excluded.

But in the meantime, Ken knows what he talking about.

The biggest issue is condensation, if it’s that cold Todd, I probably don’t have to tell you how dry the air is.
If the shop is warm and moist however, but a fan on it. Otherwise, just be careful if moving it around, until it warms up, the plastic and more so the cables get very brittle and can break.

Unofficially, Todd you have nothing to be concerned about. Just like Ken said make sure it’s warm and dry before powering on.

---

Ray, Ken,

Thanks guys, sound like good information and good advice. I'll drag it in and let it defrost overnight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jake98

there's a song in there somewhere..

'Toddmorg and his frosty welder
thinkin about the past...
and the last time that he held'er
he knew it would neverlast...

she'd been given that old cold shoulder,
left outside like she had smelled,
how many times must he have told her
don't be be hangin 'round ol'lugweld..

you guys can take it from there.

---

That's BEAUTIFUL! Brougt a little tear to my eye.

Let it warm up good and it lit up just fine.

Side note: This EX welder works correct, even using the pedal, torch, gas tank, regulator, plug and approximating the settings from the EXT. This should help to rule out external parts and settings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by todmorg

Let it warm up good and it lit up just fine.

Side note: This EX welder works correct, even using the pedal, torch, gas tank, regulator, plug and approximating the settings from the EXT. This should help to rule out external parts and settings.

---

Just shows I may be on to something when I say I think its software.. :)

Nice to see the actual temps on the capacitors.. We have always used my friends MIG that was stored in 0 and below weather at times with no problems.

My ESAB Migmaster 250 (borrowed from a relative) Sat in a un-heated barn for over 8 years!. That thing still works like new. There is a LCD display, and LED indicator lights, spot timer, you name it, if it was an option, this machine has it, meaning that there's circuit boards, too. I woild generally liken the (electronic) construction to the EX, not the EXT, 'cept the transformer....Well, I guess we're talkin' 2 different animals here, Point is, Fearing your exsact scenario, every time it a was powered up, it was left to run in idle mode for ar least 15-30 minutes, to get all the innards to their respective operating temps, and burn off any condensation. I know thet you weren't asking for opinions and hyperbole, but I had to put in my US $0.02. I store my NEW 250EX in what I like to call a "semi-heated" space. I have a small, plug-in heater unit near the welders to keep the general region at about 50 deg F overnite. Never a trouble. Either way, this has proven to be an informative thread.

I think I heard somewhere that mil. spec. components are actually the same, but the batches get more testing.

Is there a stated maximum storage temp? I don't have a problem with condensation - wood I leave laying out back has a lower moisture content than kiln-dried wood (Phoenix). I was more worried about heat. It runs around 105F in my garage for 4 months out of the year. I've been thinking about bringing it the house when its not in use in the summer.
-RP