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Thread: Shielding gas Barb on 225LX?

  1. #1

    Default Shielding gas Barb on 225LX?

    Anyone know what type, size etc. thread the shielding gas barb is on the back of the 225LX machine is? I'd like to change the fitting over from the barb to pressure type threaded fitting for the shielding gas line.

  2. #2

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    Mike, Mark, anyone?

  3. #3

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    The treads on the connectors in a PowerPlasma 70 are 1/8" NPT and 1/4" NPT if that is of any help. Or NPTF if you are picky. You'd think it would be metric but it is not.

    My advice would be to take it out and then go to a hardware store or auto parts place for a comparison. A well stocked auto parts place (not a generic/Kragen type store) should have air truck lines and fittings which work great.

    Once again, this is for a plasma cutter air line so take it for what it is worth.

  4. #4

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    Thanks GWD! I appreciate it! Anyone else able to confirm on one of the welders?
    Last edited by Zoomie; 01-09-2011 at 01:48 AM.

  5. #5

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    Zoomie, fortunately, (or unfortunately, depending upon how you look at it), I haven't had to figure that out yet because we haven't had any problems, and those are the kind of specs we leave the factory to figure out between them and their suppliers as to type of thread. I have a 250EX I use for reference purposes that I can check out, but I have been busy working on some future improvements in our line. I'll check it out as soon as I can.

  6. #6

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    Great Mark! Let me know what you discover.
    I think it would be a more positive and secure fit if it were to thread on at the tank and the welder. I guess I'm just being pursnickety...

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    Hey Zoomie,
    I have the PP256 and I would think that it has the same solenoid as your 225LX. The threads where the barb screws into the solenoid are in fact a "BSPP- British Standard Pipe Parallel" type thread. There is not a taper on these threads. The size is 1/8" BSPP G. You can mate a BSPT R (has a taper) male, to a BSPP G female thread, but not the other way around.
    I'm sure that some other owners of the multi process units have noticed that the 1/4" fittings that go to the air filter/regulator, have an o-ring on them, that is because that is a straight or parallel thread and if you try to put a 1/4" npt fitting in,it just don't "feel" right because it's not, the regulator has BSPP female treads in it.
    Zoomie, The best place to find these type fittings IMHO, would be Ebay. Just search for "1/8 BSPP", but most that you will find are actually "push to connect" type fittings that have like a 145psi rating. Another note, BSPP/BSPT threads have a 55 degree pitch and NPT threads have a 60 degree pitch.
    Hope I cleared this up for you some!
    TC.... Glen

  8. #8

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    Awesome! thanks a bunch. Soo, they are a brake line type thread? What is the correct name for the taper sealing fittings we in the USA normally use for this type application(I have to adapt from a 1/8" BSPP male thread to a ______?
    Last edited by Zoomie; 01-10-2011 at 01:18 AM.

  9. Default

    Zoomie,
    They do make adapters that go from 1/8" BSBT to 1/8" npt or 1/4" npt male or female, but then you will be getting too many parts back there. I'm not sure exactly what type of line you are planning to run, but it sounds like you are wanting to use a compression or flare fitting?
    Here is how I set mine up. <see pics>. I needed to have my line go 90 degrees from where it was originally because it would run right into my argon cylinder on the cart that I have, (harbor freight). Also, my unit has a plasma cutter and the filter/regulator hangs off the rear and you have to swap the hose over every time you changed over from welding to cutting and the hose passes right in front of the on/off switch. PITA!!
    So, all you need to do is something like I did. The hose that I'm using is polyurethane and rated at 145 psi and is VERY durable and is compatible with argon and helium. The fittings are rated the same, they are nickel plated brass and a very strong polyester thermoplastic.
    1, Hose is Festo PUN-10x1.5 (10mm O.D.) 145psi rating
    2, Fitting that goes into solenoid, 1/8 BSPT to 10mm O.D. tubing.
    Be sure to use a thread sealant,(like leak lock) and not teflon tape.
    The solenoid is rated at 0.8 MPa which is 116 psi, so everything installed is over rated. (especially my 3-way valve! 2500psi!!)

    The hose has a very tight fit over the barb on the argon regulator and seems impossible to remove once it's pushed on so I did not put a clamp on mine.
    Works like a charm with NO leaks!
    I have used these type fittings for pneumatic applications for years without any failure due to product integrity.
    And just one more thing, so far, Everlast support and the rest of the crew there, have been nothing but the best! Fear not, these guys will take care of you!! Good stuff! Thanks!!
    Any questions.....Shoot!
    TC..... Glen
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  10. #10

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    I have a Victor regulator that came with a line that has the female fittings factory crimped on like my Miller/Smith regulator setup. I want set my 225LX up to use a standard hose and fitting arrangement with no hose clamps.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoomie View Post
    I have a Victor regulator that came with a line that has the female fittings factory crimped on like my Miller/Smith regulator setup. I want set my 225LX up to use a standard hose and fitting arrangement with no hose clamps.
    Here's quick fix for that. I just used a standard barbed to Female type B fitting, a short length of 1/4" id Air Compressor hose and a couple of clamps. Not pretty but it does the job.

    Steve

    Miller 212
    Everlast 250EX
    Everlast PowerPlasma 60
    Victor O/A
    Current Project: 21' Jet Sled Rat Boat.

  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoomie View Post
    I have a Victor regulator that came with a line that has the female fittings factory crimped on like my Miller/Smith regulator setup. I want set my 225LX up to use a standard hose and fitting arrangement with no hose clamps.
    Zoomie,
    You can get the adapter that goes from 1/8" BSPT to 1/4" NPT male or female, that should get you in good enough position to make the transition to your fitting that you want to use. I'm not too familiar with the variety of welding gas fittings available, but I'm sure that there has to be one that adapts to 1/4" npt out there. This site should have what you need to go from BSPT to NPT: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...p?Product=3230 .

    When I changed out the gas inlet fitting on my machine, I had a fan issue that I was taking care of as well as adjusting the HF points. Since I had the cover off to deal with the fan/point issue, I decided to do my modification to the fitting at that time. The solenoid is actually held in place by the original brass barb fitting and if you look at the pictures that I posted you can see that I have a stainless washer between the fitting and the case. I had to put that washer there to take up space so the solenoid would be tightly mounted.
    Be aware, that the wires going to the solenoid are kind of small and it wouldn't take much to yank them out and would be a drag to repair if that happens, (as well as void the warranty on it!!).
    Also, the original barb fitting has the straight threads on it, but there is not an o-ring installed. They have sealed the threads with a VERY high strength adhesive/sealer and is VERY difficult to remove from the solenoid.
    If you still decide to attempt your hose adapter, you need to be able to mount the solenoid in a vise to prevent damage to it or you while you pull the original fitting off! And don't forget to use a high quality thread sealer upon reassembly.
    Oh, and be sure to check the compatibility of the hose that you plan on using to see if it is indeed compatible with argon or argon/helium mix. You will be surprised how many products can not handle or can actually be broken down by these gases.
    Let me know how it goes!!
    TC..... Glen

  13. #13

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    Gessr, good hit on the hose quality! I was begining to question that air hose so I changed it out for regular inert gas hose a couple of nights ago after I read your post. It made a significant difference in contamination problems I was having. I was convinced it was the WD-40 I use when cutting but it was the hose.. That's good news for me cuz WD-40 works like a dream.

    I had a buddy of mine do some tests on it and it seems that even with just compressor air it gasses of some really high VOC's in the form of Hydrocarbons, (aka stinky crap). It's rated for air tools and general shop use but not for paint spraying, etc.

    I switched my PP 60 over to regular goodyear rubber hose and noticed a much cleaner cut so apparently it makes a diff there too.

    Thanks for mentioning it! Cleared up my headache better than Midol!
    Steve

    Miller 212
    Everlast 250EX
    Everlast PowerPlasma 60
    Victor O/A
    Current Project: 21' Jet Sled Rat Boat.

  14. #14

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    Guys, still haven't gotten all my stuff together yet to swap it over to compression type fittings. as soon as I do I'll post up. Again, thanks for all the help!
    Last edited by Gary; 01-29-2011 at 06:06 PM. Reason: added info

  15. Default

    [QUOTE=sschefer;5383]Gessr, good hit on the hose quality! I was begining to question that air hose so I changed it out for regular inert gas hose a couple of nights ago after I read your post. It made a significant difference in contamination problems I was having. I was convinced it was the WD-40 I use when cutting but it was the hose.. That's good news for me cuz WD-40 works like a dream.

    Steve,
    I'm glad that suggestion about the hose quality helped you! Back in the mid 80's I was one of several techs for a small, single channel television/movie company in the Houston area that used microwave to transmit. The transmitter was on top of the Allied bank building (highest building in Houston at the time). Anyway, the antenna was purged with argon and was also kept at like 15psi, some contractors working on the roof has damaged the line for the argon and we had to replace it. Well, about a week later we were having signal issues at the transmitter and when we checked it out, the replacement hose that we used was blistered all over and the outer layer had actually popped at the end where the fitting was crimped on. Thought we had a defective hose and replaced with another one, lasted 2 weeks this time before the same thing happened. We went with soft copper tubing after that with no more issues.
    Since then, I have learned that a "hose is a hose" theory just don't get it. The multi-layered argon hoses (green), actually have pores in the outer layer to allow the gas that permeates through the inner layers to escape and not cause the damage to the hose.

    As far as to the VOC's, just take a drink from a regular garden hose and you can taste the crap in the hose compared to a RV (white) drinking water hose.

    TC...... Glen

  16. #16

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    That taste.....its lead.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Lloydminster, Alberta Canada
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoomie View Post
    Guys, still haven't gotten all my stuff together yet to swap it over to compression type fittings. as soon as I do I'll post up. Again, thanks for all the help!
    Hi Zoomie

    I'm in the process of figuring out thread sizes and changing all the gas lines from my dual stage Victor regulator all the way through my 250EX. I want to replace all the hose barbs with compression fittings and Argon gas rated hose as you have mentioned.

    If you can share your source for fittings I'd appreciate it. I know I won't find much around here.

    Thanks, Chuck

  18. #18

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    Woodchuck, leave the internal hoses alone. They are fine. They are rated for use, and we rarely have any leaks. Plus if you were to bung up something while messing with it, it is on your dime not ours. This is one of the things that is well enough, leave it alone. There are plenty of alternatives that can be adapted to the rear of the machine without unecessarily messing with the lines and fittings.

  19. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    That taste.....its lead.
    Mmmmm, lead!

    Also Mark, I agree 100% with leaving the inside hose alone as well as the rest of it too. The internal hose is double clamped on both ends and should last for a very long time. Also, there are a lot of things that could go wrong while trying to change it out, especially by the front panel. Seems like they built the unit from the bottom up and that hose is at the bottom and everything else is on top of it.
    The only reason that I changed mine to the current configuration is that I had all the fittings on hand as well as the hose and to make it easier to swap from welding to cutting and back. And if the original fitting would not have been aiming right at the argon cylinder, I would have left it alone.
    In one of my previous post I mentioned the adhesive/sealant that is on the solenoid fittings is very strong, what I should have said is that they were never intended to ever come apart! Seriously strong stuff they put on those threads!!

    TC..... Glen

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Lloydminster, Alberta Canada
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gessr View Post
    Mmmmm, lead!

    Also Mark, I agree 100% with leaving the inside hose alone as well as the rest of it too. The internal hose is double clamped on both ends and should last for a very long time. Also, there are a lot of things that could go wrong while trying to change it out, especially by the front panel. Seems like they built the unit from the bottom up and that hose is at the bottom and everything else is on top of it.
    The only reason that I changed mine to the current configuration is that I had all the fittings on hand as well as the hose and to make it easier to swap from welding to cutting and back. And if the original fitting would not have been aiming right at the argon cylinder, I would have left it alone.
    In one of my previous post I mentioned the adhesive/sealant that is on the solenoid fittings is very strong, what I should have said is that they were never intended to ever come apart! Seriously strong stuff they put on those threads!!

    TC..... Glen
    Glen I wouldn't touch the inside hoses either if they wern't leaking when I first received the unit. Mine only had one clamp on each end and they both leaked. I replaced them with screw clamps which made me a little paranoid. But reading what a pain the solenoid is to remove maybe I'll have to give my idea a second thought.

    Mark I'm well aware it will my dime if I encounter problems.

    Chuck

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