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Thread: Machine selection advice

  1. #1

    Default Machine selection advice

    Debating machine selection. Ext for for sure to get digital and wave forms. But my dilema, go 325 never come up short, or, since I already have helium go 255 and allow gas to make up for the occasional short times. I know I'll have to do few extra calcs for helium versus argon, but my thinking is new machine never has same settings as old, so I'll be re tuning settings anyway. Hope this makes sense!

    Barry

  2. #2

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    What might you weld to come up short with 250 amps and how often?
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  3. #3

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    as example the occasional billet plate at 1/2 to beveled 3/4 tops. cases where for example on argon and proper machine it would run 275 range? so roughly divide 1.5 amps for helium Ive done with round 190 range for 1/2", but was pushing 240 to 250 wish on 3/4 and up. But thats older inefficient machine so newer machine 250 amps and helium I would guess could do fillets on 1" I would guess, not that ill need that but.....

    Barry

  4. Default

    My vote would be "you Never have Too Much power"

    Especially if you're even thinking about 3/4"...

  5. #5

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    true! which was kinda why i figured at 250 with helium id be covered for the few time i see 3/4. Id do it previous on 250 argon and tad bit if bevel ad pre heat. anything at inch i go to friends shop. Keep in mind I'm factoring in the added cost of water cooling, if it were just machine ew hundred more for 325 is zero question. But I'm thinking 255 and water under 3, 325 and water well over. Even still were pretty lucky now to have that much machine for under 6, so i do get it, but you reach a point where wife says " you spent how much, on a what?" lol


    Barry

  6. #6

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    The 255EXT can do up to 3/4 with the advanced pulse feature. Helium would be a bonus though.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default

    The included torch for the higher output on the 255EXT is also a water cooled torch same as the 325EXT. While there are some air cooled torches that can sorta handle 250 amps, the duty cycle where they are comfortable to hold on to is pretty short. Water cooling doesn't have to add much to the cost. There are plenty of DIY solutions, or you can even run a constant loss system using tap water. It's really not a large volume. plenty of older machines ran with that system for years and years. If you plan on anything like 1/2 aluminum or better, you will never regret having a water cooled torch.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  8. #8

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    yeah the included torch is a bonus, kinda why i figured set up water one cart and leave it on and be done with it, better for portability as well. I know chip pump and bucket brigade works in a pinch but all together is less clutter for me. kinda honing in on 250 range now, thats plenty enough for non pro work, and if i hit a big one ill go to a buddies shop. Gonna call round and price hunt this week.


    Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default

    Be sure to give sales a call, too. They can quote you on a package deal that could save you some coin.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  10. #10

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    Yeah in my research I have found lots of higher and lower prices but at the cost of how new machine is, definitely gonna call direct see what I can do. Who's best to call there?



    Barry

  11. #11

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    Thanks for all the advice guys, I pulled the trigger and ended up getting the 255ext, dealt with Mark and he was a huge help. Hooked me up very well and aided in my decision. It all came down to minimum power of all things, he reminded me 325 is rated to .010 and 255 .005. So while I thought I wanted top end incase I ever ran into it, I will for sure see thin more often, and again I have helium as back up. Anyway I'm lucky to live in NorCal so fast order fast ship I have machine already, cooler should be on the way shortly, he was awesome to deal with so I just went and got machine and cooler so I'm dialed in day one. Machines here, coolers on its way, just need to make cart next week for twin bottles, as well as make y line with one ways. will post results soon as I'm up and running.


    Barry

  12. #12

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    yaaay! coolers finally came in! Now I can start to plot out cart, picked up fresh topped off helium argon cylinders and y lines the week. Just need one way valves to finish that off, guy at gas store didn't seem to think they won't back feed and I needed them, but got think about what happens when one tank is lower than other, so ill get em elsewhere. As second thought I might be leaving room on cart for a 205 mig, so will have to call for dimensions. hoping for depot cards at fathers day for casters and miscellaneous metal.


    Barry

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoset View Post
    yaaay! coolers finally came in! Now I can start to plot out cart, picked up fresh topped off helium argon cylinders and y lines the week. Just need one way valves to finish that off, guy at gas store didn't seem to think they won't back feed and I needed them, but got think about what happens when one tank is lower than other, so ill get em elsewhere. As second thought I might be leaving room on cart for a 205 mig, so will have to call for dimensions. hoping for depot cards at fathers day for casters and miscellaneous metal.


    Barry

    Seems to me that the tanks would have to drop below their regulated pressures before any back feed could occur.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  14. #14

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    yeah for sure, that'd be the only time. And one would hop there always paying attention to what there doing but! things can happen, and with at most a 70/30 mix your argon(by math alone) would run out first from higher use. Course today i had the other thought thought, say it runs low they mix a tad, you notice and stop, and then go get purge refill anyway right? I figure helium will get filled 1-2 times a year compared to often of argon.


    Barry

  15. #15

    Default

    been busy haven't had chance to update. Got my 255ext a bit ago now, Mike hooked me up and I got a smoking deal, went with cooler as well. I had debated the 325 but Mike saved me at last second on one point alone, I may need power someday, but you always need to go low. So the lower bottom end of 255 sold me. And I can say now Im beyond glad and happy, the efficient controlled 255 this puts out is more than I'll ever need, and thats just the DC because AC with helium power is a non issue. With Helium you can melt a 1 inch block of aluminum like solder! So needless to say beyond happy with machine and setup, its so good its like cheating, I have been forcing myself to leave controls alone to tune myself up. Problem is if your feeling lazy you just dial in pulse(if in ac add triangle wave) and lay wire perfect beads every time. Other night for kicks I was doing 1/2 alum outside corner and clamped wire in corner, hit pulse and layered a perfect bead one handed. Only minor complaint is air torch that comes with it was a little wonky, I had to chase threads and face insulator surface in order to have tungsten clamp well, but not huge deal as everything else is amazing. Oh and yeah one ways were not needed on tanks, have run 2 bottles of argon through it, and 1 bottle of helium with zero mix or contamination issues. I could go on and on how awesome this thing is, easy settings, awesome helpful features, quiet, new peddle plenty good! All welds including dirty harley case no problem.


    Barry

  16. Default

    Yeah,

    The Everlast EXT models ROCK!


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoset View Post
    been busy haven't had chance to update. Got my 255ext a bit ago now, Mike hooked me up and I got a smoking deal, went with cooler as well. I had debated the 325 but Mike saved me at last second on one point alone, I may need power someday, but you always need to go low. So the lower bottom end of 255 sold me. And I can say now Im beyond glad and happy, the efficient controlled 255 this puts out is more than I'll ever need, and thats just the DC because AC with helium power is a non issue. With Helium you can melt a 1 inch block of aluminum like solder! So needless to say beyond happy with machine and setup, its so good its like cheating, I have been forcing myself to leave controls alone to tune myself up. Problem is if your feeling lazy you just dial in pulse(if in ac add triangle wave) and lay wire perfect beads every time. Other night for kicks I was doing 1/2 alum outside corner and clamped wire in corner, hit pulse and layered a perfect bead one handed. Only minor complaint is air torch that comes with it was a little wonky, I had to chase threads and face insulator surface in order to have tungsten clamp well, but not huge deal as everything else is amazing. Oh and yeah one ways were not needed on tanks, have run 2 bottles of argon through it, and 1 bottle of helium with zero mix or contamination issues. I could go on and on how awesome this thing is, easy settings, awesome helpful features, quiet, new peddle plenty good! All welds including dirty harley case no problem.


    Barry
    Everlast 210 EXT (2015)

    www.youtube.com/newjerusalemtimes

  17. #17

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    yeah I couldn't be happier! And I'm using the hell out of it, matter of fact burned through 3rd bottle of argon last night and got fresh fill today. Doing another harley case repair and no doubt it'll go as well as everything else. Its trade tricky one but Ill sort it out. I, fixing motor mount but parts are all destroyed, so going back with 5/8 plate. I know welding plate right on will be tricky so I'm going to bead on new pad bout 1/4 thick then weld plate on that. So basically using the 1/4" as a blend from cast to nothing but 4043 beads, then plate on that.


    Barry

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoset View Post
    I could go on and on how awesome this thing is, easy settings, awesome helpful features, quiet, new peddle plenty good! All welds including dirty harley case no problem.


    Barry
    I really like my 255EXT with water cooler. It is awesome burning rod as well.

    I'm not an experienced welder like you. I bit the bullet and bought the CK gas lens with Pyrex cups (made up a complete kit). Really like these on the WP-20F torch, made a big difference for me.
    D2GS332-P Gas Saver Kit for 3/32" w/Pyrex Cup
    CK D2GS418-P Gas Saver Kit for 1/8" w/Pyrex Cup
    CK D2GS040-P Gas Saver Kit for .040" w/Pyrex Cup
    CK D2GS116-P Gas Saver Kit for 1/16" w/Pyrex Cup

    Craig

  19. #19

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    well there more experienced than me' I'm just a constant fabricator! lol But with this thing yeah! it makes you look good and feel better than you are at it! I just killed one of those pyrex last night! I love them for tight spots cause you can see through them, and its like a free flashlight in the tight spots, but they do break so take care swinging it around! Find one of the stubby lens kits as back up, there short cover gas is good, and best of all they take a beating.


    Barry

  20. Default

    Hi Barry,

    I am glad that the ampere reduction when going from straight argon to a helium + argon mix is 1.5:1 . I also read somewhere or saw on Youtube that straight Argon the AC balance needs to be about70% electrode negative but for helium +_ argon and straight helium 50% balance is about right because helium creates a little bit of rectifier action. There is also a guy at Welding Tips and Tricks who says that when welding thick aluminum he uses80% He and 20% Ar which reduces the amperage enough to save him from having to upgrade from a Miller Dynasty 200 to Dynasty 400.

    Advantages of helium or argon helium mixes:
    1. Better heat transfer
    2. deeper weld joint penetration
    3. Does thick material better than straight argon,
    4. Faster travel,
    5. Better looking welds
    6. Less noise than straight argon because of the lower current setting
    7. It is possible to obtain a higher temperature arc that makes it possible to melt high melting point metals such as miracle steels, nichrome steels ( for heating elements ), and possibly also vanadium

    Disadvantages of helium and helium + argon mixes:

    8. Cost
    9. Higher arc voltage means that the ampere rating of an inverter TIG welder needs to be reduced. Note that this is not a big issue with an old style transformer + rectifier AC/DC welder that is rated both TIG and stick.
    10. An inverter welder might automatically shut off when the arc voltage is "too high" like when an inverter stick welder decides that your arc is too long.
    11. I found a paper on Researchgate that has some charts that show that to maximize the temperature of a helium or helium+argon arc you need to maintain a gap of 1.5 millimeters and no more than 2 millimeters. I am sure that that kind of precision is only needed for very high melting point metals.

    One thing that I did learn in the new stick welding class last semester is that a Lincoln inverter welder only needs 90 amps for 1/8 inch E7018 versus 120-150 amps for the same rod when using an Idealarc 250 AC/DC machine in my first stick welding class back in 1984. Those of you who started out with transformer+rectifier welders have probably noticed that too.

    Mike Cole

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