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Thread: 325 Arc starting issues, spudders on hi freq.

  1. Default 325 Arc starting issues, spudders on hi freq.

    I have the fancy 325 tig welder, having arc starting problems. it kind of sputters when using hi freq, then finally catches. Got used to it now, does it since new, but its' really annoying.

    It basically just sputters like a missfire on a car. And no it's not me / settings / gasflow / tips / material / or ground.


    Anyone know what's wrong with this thing?

  2. #2

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    How can you rule out these settings and stuff without presenting them? I can't tell you the number of times I've heard that from customers over one issue or the other, and then it turned out to be something in the settings or the environment. What settings are you using? When did you purchase it? Foot pedal, or torch switch?

  3. #3

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    Empty questions like this beg a smart answer.

    now give the forum some real info on the problem
    Last edited by zoama; 02-29-2016 at 11:50 PM. Reason: Please be nice

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rick9345 View Post
    Empty questions like this beg a smart answer.

    now give the forum some real info on the problem

    I have been welding with the tig process for 10 years solid, the high frequency is not starting the arc correctly. Regardless of settings or process DC/AC the arc doesn't start correctly. Never had a problem with any other machines.

    Using foot pedal.

    It's not an empty question, it's a question in what to check to fix a hi freq arc initiation problem that isn't setting or operator based. What info are you looking for? It's a question that also states all settings / parameters and consumables have already been checked. And we are looking for some assistance in tracking down a mechanical issue with the machine.
    Last edited by zoama; 02-29-2016 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Please be nice

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    How can you rule out these settings and stuff without presenting them? I can't tell you the number of times I've heard that from customers over one issue or the other, and then it turned out to be something in the settings or the environment. What settings are you using? When did you purchase it? Foot pedal, or torch switch?
    Same problem with any process or settings, will not initiate HF arc very well in DC or AC. regardless of settings. Lift arc seems OK, but not great.

  6. #6

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    Gorilla,
    You are acting like we can pull answers out of thin air for you. You want us to "trust" you that you have everything correct. You basically want us to assume things we don't know or have verified. There are things that are on our units that are different from other brands. You know the old adage when you assume don't you? I can't tell you how many times it is the settings and the person said he was very very experienced. I've heard it over and over, and you can find it here if you search, and I can tell you old members who have been here a while knows I am telling the truth. We use the settings to get a grasp of what is going on and how the unit is behaving in relation to them to predict a problem and solution. You basically are refusing to provide the information we need to get a toe hold on this problem. If you are experienced, it should be easy enough to complete a laundry list of settings in a few minutes. Who knows? It might not be the settings or the way you have things configured. Of course you can call tech support and if you don' want to go over the diagnosis procedure, all they'll do is tell you to send it in and give you an RMA.

    You even refused to answer any question about purchase date. All information is relevant.

    Again, Please provide the following:

    Have you cross checked the start with the torch switch in both 2T and 4T settings?
    Preflow Time:
    Postflow time:
    Upslope time:
    Downslope time:
    With pedal, which Mode: 2T, 4T, Pedal only, or Pedal 2T, Pedal 4T.
    Torch is in the Negative? Y/N
    Work clamp attached directly to weldment at a shiny point? Y/N
    Pure argon or ArHe? Fresh fill or old fill, existing cylinder you've had.
    Start amp setting:
    End Amp setting:
    AC wave form when in use: Better in one wave form or the other.
    Pulse? Y/N, Pulse settings. If using pulse in AC, Which pulse in AC
    AC frequency setting in AC:
    AC balance setting:
    Tungsten stick out:
    Diameter tungsten:
    Max welding amps:
    Thickness of metal.
    Tungsten type/thickness.
    Type of point you are using on tungsten...or ball?
    Length of torch?
    Running on 1 ph or 3 ph.

  7. Default

    I just found the answer, seems like a pretty common problem with these machines then.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQoOP9DHJJQ


    I had already stated I have the welding experience and qualifications to check all settings and parameters, I am looking for what I can check that is wrong with the MACHINE internals. Found the answer this was the problem.

    Maybe you should try trusting people sometime. I know a TON of people here are hobbiest's here, this is just our backup welder in our tig shop.....




    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    Gorilla,
    You are acting like we can pull answers out of thin air for you. You want us to "trust" you that you have everything correct. You basically want us to assume things we don't know or have verified. There are things that are on our units that are different from other brands. You know the old adage when you assume don't you? I can't tell you how many times it is the settings and the person said he was very very experienced. I've heard it over and over, and you can find it here if you search, and I can tell you old members who have been here a while knows I am telling the truth. We use the settings to get a grasp of what is going on and how the unit is behaving in relation to them to predict a problem and solution. You basically are refusing to provide the information we need to get a toe hold on this problem. If you are experienced, it should be easy enough to complete a laundry list of settings in a few minutes. Who knows? It might not be the settings or the way you have things configured. Of course you can call tech support and if you don' want to go over the diagnosis procedure, all they'll do is tell you to send it in and give you an RMA.

    You even refused to answer any question about purchase date. All information is relevant.

    Again, Please provide the following:

    Have you cross checked the start with the torch switch in both 2T and 4T settings?
    Preflow Time:
    Postflow time:
    Upslope time:
    Downslope time:
    With pedal, which Mode: 2T, 4T, Pedal only, or Pedal 2T, Pedal 4T.
    Torch is in the Negative? Y/N
    Work clamp attached directly to weldment at a shiny point? Y/N
    Pure argon or ArHe? Fresh fill or old fill, existing cylinder you've had.
    Start amp setting:
    End Amp setting:
    AC wave form when in use: Better in one wave form or the other.
    Pulse? Y/N, Pulse settings. If using pulse in AC, Which pulse in AC
    AC frequency setting in AC:
    AC balance setting:
    Tungsten stick out:
    Diameter tungsten:
    Max welding amps:
    Thickness of metal.
    Tungsten type/thickness.
    Type of point you are using on tungsten...or ball?
    Length of torch?
    Running on 1 ph or 3 ph.

  8. Default

    Also half of the items on your list of setting have nothing to do with hi-freq or arc starting issues,

    What do the following items have to do with hi freq arc staring as per my questions?
    Downlope
    Post flow Time
    End amp setting
    ALready stated problem is in all prcesses
    a/c balance - ac freq again already stated does in all processes
    tungeston (would have to be insanely wrong to create arc start issues)
    pulse - already stated tried all process/settings
    max welding amps - nothing to do with arc start
    thickness of metal - already stated done since new (guess I should have mentioned problem has been for around 2 years)
    type of point, depends on the tungeston / material
    length of torch - irrelivent
    3 phase

  9. #9

    Default

    You are wrong on many of your observations. I won't argue with you, but I think an astute person sees the problem here with you have presented and how hard it is to diagnose something. It's like hitting a bull's eye in the dark. You haven't shed any light on the conditions, environment or settings you are working with. There are a lot of pros here too. Truly experienced welders know that a lot of these issues can affect starting. You still haven't really answered any questions. Call tech support @ ext 207 and have them issue you an RMA. There is nothing I can or anyone else here can really do besides that.

    These settings you mentioned DO have influence over arc starting, and more, including gas flow rates, drafts nearby, location of the welder etc. I've worked for everlast trouble shooting now for 7 years. Almost as long as you've been welding. I've been at it a good bit longer.


    I've asked you some important questions to try to form a picture of the unit and how it is behaving and what you should expect.

    I'll humor you and hopefully give you an education on these things. The things you have told me further confirm my suspicions about where you are with your understanding of the unit and support my reason for asking for these items. If you really wanted help you would have answered these questions instead of further offering non answers. I try to help all our customers and go out of my way to do so. At this point I really don't know what to say. I guess you know more than I do about our units and how they are designed, their strengths and their weaknesses.

    Tungsten plays a big role in how the arc starts. Different tungstens start differently, some better than others. That is a proven FACT that anyone in the industry knows. Some including Green and Zirconiated do not work well at all with inverters, especially ours. Additionally, the way it is prepared is important. IF it is balled, the arc will not start well or stably with an inverter, or at least ours. Ours are designed for pretty much a point. So there is basically only ONE shape that guarantees a stable start with our units: A point.

    AC balance and AC frequency settings do affect arc starting. Balance especially so. More AC positive polarity greatly increases difficulty in starting.
    Polarity, if it is wrong, will create a problem with the way the unit starts in AC or DC.
    Pulse will, at times will create issues with starting, particularly at low amperages, due to the way it works. Setting it correctly helps.
    Maximum welding amps DO have a lot to do with it, if you are using a foot pedal, due to the resolution of the pedal and how far it takes the pedal travel to reach the minimum start amp value. That is why I asked you if you had cross checked it with both foot pedal and torch switch. It won't exhibit the same issue. Also would confirm IF we should examine the pedal. A low maximum amp setting will create more issues with starting if the pedal has a dead spot in it...and will require more travel to start the arc than when it is set at a higher amperage.
    Thickness of metal just helps to add to the overall picture.
    Length of torch is very important. The longer the torch, the weaker the HF arc gets and the more difficult it gets to start an arc. If you have had the experience that you say, you'd know this.
    Postflow time and end amp setting can affect the restart cycle if you are retrying to start.

    I asked you for purchase date, which would clue me in on the type start you have and what we should look for and how we should approach it...but you have ignored this as well. Some things have been reworked on the start board. There were a few issues, but usually after a long time. I have no clue when you bought it or when it was made.

  10. #10

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    The unit you referenced is nothing like your Unit...and it had both a plasma cutter and a TIG unit. The issue was different, along with the design of the HF board. I remember that issue and was one of the ones that dealt with Jody on that issue back then. The reason that issue had problems was different. But any machine with HF has issues from time to time...even Miller and Lincoln have had serious start issues with their units...particularly inverters. But all points have to be adjusted from time to time. The design of the points on that unit had to do double duty for both plasma and TIG. This put more wear on them and the design then compromised the ideal gap setting for both plasma and tig. Along with that and the tendency to move over time due to temp changes sometimes caused issues, but could be corrected.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorillam View Post
    I just found the answer, seems like a pretty common problem with these machines then.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQoOP9DHJJQ


    I had already stated I have the welding experience and qualifications to check all settings and parameters, I am looking for what I can check that is wrong with the MACHINE internals. Found the answer this was the problem.

    Maybe you should try trusting people sometime. I know a TON of people here are hobbiest's here, this is just our backup welder in our tig shop.....
    The new machines don't have HF points. The early machines did often get a point gap issue after being tossed around during shipping. The late model machines do not use points on the HF board as a fix for those earlier issues. At this point there is really not much in the way of user service, except making sure all board interconnect cables are secure (another thing that can loosen in shipping) or swapping out the HF board. One of the main reasons for asking for all your settings is to try to reproduce the problem. These machines are microprocessor controlled, and you may have discovered a bug in the software, because of some setting that is causing the computer to do HF restarts over and over, causing the studdering you mentioned. Since you say it has done this since new, why didn't you send it back and get it warrantied right away? Everlast covers shipping if you have a problem right out of the box, just to take care of bad things that can happen during shipping. People have posted picture of machines that looked like they were dropped out of a plane. Obviously Everlast doesn't have much control over shipping damage, but has a great warranty to cover whatever might go wrong.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  12. #12

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    Rambozo,
    Currently the newest units have reverted to point gap system. We've mentioned it a few times in passing, but everything 2016 should have points. It seems like a step backward for some, but the newest version of them are better than the solid state design. That is one reason I have asked repeatedly for purchase date to zero in on the problem.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    Rambozo,
    Currently the newest units have reverted to point gap system. We've mentioned it a few times in passing, but everything 2016 should have points. It seems like a step backward for some, but the newest version of them are better than the solid state design. That is one reason I have asked repeatedly for purchase date to zero in on the problem.
    I guess I missed that. I liked the gas discharge tube in place of the points on the HF boards. Why the return to points? Was it just to have easy adjustability?
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  14. #14

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    From what I was told, was the internal arc would create some metal transfer over time inside the tube and would erode and start would weaken.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    From what I was told, was the internal arc would create some metal transfer over time inside the tube and would erode and start would weaken.
    The reason I ask is that at a friends shop, I just had a chance to try a new Dynasty 200 with the Blue Lightning which I believe is Miller's pointless system, and the starts were amazing. Like it would jump a 1/2" to 3/4" gap or better. It would also zap you right through your gloves if you did something dumb. This compared to his older Dynasty 700 that you practically have to lift start the HF is so wimpy.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by gorillam View Post
    I just found the answer, seems like a pretty common problem with these machines then.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQoOP9DHJJQ


    I had already stated I have the welding experience and qualifications to check all settings and parameters, I am looking for what I can check that is wrong with the MACHINE internals. Found the answer this was the problem.

    Maybe you should try trusting people sometime. I know a TON of people here are hobbiest's here, this is just our backup welder in our tig shop.....
    If you fielded the tech calls here you would be on Mark's side, but point well taken. Man that's an old video . I was the tech that talked to Jody. Back then (2010) it was a bigger issue. No so today.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorillam View Post
    I have the fancy 325 tig welder, having arc starting problems. it kind of sputters when using hi freq, then finally catches. Got used to it now, does it since new, but its' really annoying.

    It basically just sputters like a missfire on a car. And no it's not me / settings / gasflow / tips / material / or ground.


    Anyone know what's wrong with this thing?
    Yes I have have one and it is hard to get it started once the tungsten is warm or hot it work better, my first one was the same the HF is very weak but I like the welder I use it every day welding aluminum I just got use to it. I ordered a new one hopping it is quieter and has the new four fans. As Rambozo said about the Miller HF very nice. I just tried the new Dynasty 400 with a friend who was looking at buying one it just came out replacing the Dynasty 350 and yes it has a nice HF they call it the Blue Lightning - High Frequency Arc Starter very impressive machine makes no noise, all fans and water pump are on demand.
    Everlast PowerTig 325EXT (Canada)
    Everlast Power I Mig 250 (Canada)
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80S (Canada)
    Everlast PowerCool W300 (Canada)
    Everlast PowerMTS 250S Fitted with a 30A Spoolgun(Canada)
    Miller Dynasty 400 wireless(Canada)
    Millermatic 252 plus 30A Spoolgun(Canada)

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