How to I use this Everlast torch.

[performance]

Judgeless,

Many of your answers are non answers...Regarding the 2T function with the torch, this is a non answer. I didn't ask you how you "assumed" or "expected" it worked. I asked you to verify that it DID work. You make too many assumptions...either that or your reading comprehension and problem solving skills are way off the norm. I don't mean to make fun of that if they are, but several people have pm'd me about that very possibility on your behalf. The way this works, if you have a problem, I ask the questions, you answer them as fully as you can without extraneous information or opinion, and then I come up with a possible solution...THEN and only then, if you have questions ask them... Asking them in the middle of a diagnosis process does not do anything but hamper the process.

So you understand, as an Electrical Engineer, who would normally be thought to be routinely involved in problem solving....You asked me if it was the torch or the unit to begin with. How do I know? Take a WAG? No, I ask you a series of questions that will define how the unit/torch is behaving. Intrinsic to this particular question is determining if the torch is working in 2T with the amp control. If it does not then the probability is increased that it is the torch.

Also I asked you to determine what you see with your eyes from the arc. Whether or not it displays on the unit is immaterial as to whether or not the unit is functioning by increasing and decreasing the amps. I asked you to use a real live test and tell me what you see, not something where you are staring a display. A display may or may not be linked to what is happening at the arc. I never (and no one I know of) looks at the display while welding to determine if they are getting any change in heat or the arc. The display is for bystanders in this situation. If the amps change fine, but that doesn't even mean the arc is putting out anything or changing up or down...and vice versa...especially since it's a moot point while involved in the actual weld process. On most units it does change to read actual output, but I've never had reason to verify if this unit does or not. Perhaps later today, I'll get a chance to check to see if it does. If it welds, and changes regardless of what the display does dynamically or statically, I'm good and so would a lot of other people be fine with it.

The reason you have the background menu is to alter the way the unit works with 2T/4T control for different types of controls as I have told you before. With an amp control that has the switch built into the travel action, where no separate switch is needed, a basic 2T is all that is needed. It's because you roll the amps and the switch is linked to the mechanical action of the unit, whether it's a foot pedal or a CK rotary or slider switch. 4T function will not work this type of control, so 4T is disabled in the normal mode that would be used for a foot pedal or a similar operating amptrol torch.

[Judgeless]

Regarding the 2T function with the torch, this is a non answer. I didn't ask you how you "assumed" or "expected" it worked. I asked you to verify that it DID work.

I did answer that. I did not try it because it seems very awkward. Since then I did try it in 2T mode and it does change the current. It is extremely awkward.

You show a pic using your index finger holding the button and changing the current with your middle finger. Here is a pic of me trying that. That is not possible unless you practice for a long time.



You also show a pic using your thumb on the button and using your index finger to change the current. That works a little better but it is still very awkward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_mIQuP5wAQ

The way that makes the most sense is 4T mode. You press the button to start the arc and then use your thumb to change the current. This does not work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ6L6v-eFpM

When I plug this torch in my Everlast 210EXT 4T is not an option. You have to go to the hidden menu and change D8 to 1. When that happens I cannot control the current.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_oxCFvddlg

In 2T the only two things you can control is pre flow and post flow. Start Current, Up Slope, Down Slop and End Current do not function.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clLqDrgrXFA

Are you telling me my 210EXT will not work in 4T mode using this variable current torch? I have to use 2T mode?

I would have posted all the videos in preview mode but this forum only allows on per post.

[performance]

1)
I am asking again to clarify, Are you looking at the meter while welding to determine lack of amp control? Or are you just rolling the knob up and down and looking at the meter to determine this as you demonstrate in the video? Or are you ignoring the meter and looking only at the arc while actually having the arc on and welding?
2)
The video of you holding the torch like depicted in your first video, is NOT what I posted. Go back and look again. My hand is under the torch. Some grasp overhanded, or underhanded depending on position and even welding style. This is a basic torch holding technique...If Lincoln did not teach you this, then I suggest you apply for a refund. Welding IS ALL about practice and things being awkward, and getting used to it or managing the best you can, and NOTHING is about being comfortable or ideal.

3)
When you plug your unit in, 4T is not an option? It is. But you just have to plug the unit in and select it's availability from the drop down. The unit has 5 wires...it uses all five whether it's a foot pedal or a torch switch with a potentiometer located in the handle. A foot pedal is the standard method of use for most people...so this is why it is an option.
4) 2T function with the torch plugged in with the potentiometer amp control should not feature slope and would start from whatever minimum amp setting the respective process offers...just like a foot pedal.

5) I've said this many times, not everyone can make a TIG welder. It's an elite art form of welding....some people can learn it well enough to be "finger painters", some not even that, they never get beyond the stickman stage, but very few become a DaVinci or a Rembrandt. Many highly experienced welders with years under their belts fail at TIG welding or avoid it because it takes a different skill set than they are gifted with. Or to borrow from the auto world again, not everyone that tries to drive a car gets a license, a few get a license, but shouldn't be on the road, some can drive an automatic very well, but would crash a manual transmission because of lack of hand/eye coordination. My sister learned on a manual, but to this day still "jerks" the stick and dumps the clutch... and very few of us will ever (successfully) race at 200 mph. Fastest I've been is about 140 in a car around Atlanta back in the oval days at a GM sponsored racing school, and I refuse to say and take the 5th on a motor cycle as it was in my younger and dumber days.

[performance]

And as for telling you the amptrol should not work in 4T, no I have not said either way. I'm still in the process of figuring out what is going on with you and your unit. Operator error has not been ruled out at this point.

My unit works amps up and down in 4T, but as such, you are having difficulty to such an extent it is hard to tell what you know, and what you don't know and what you are doing and not doing correctly as you've kind of evaded an non answered many of my questions, then over on WW "predict" that English is not my first language. Well, maybe not, I am from the South. We all don't never no how tu talk good or spel. Went to kollage thogh...longer than I care to think.

[performance]

I've got a few more questions and some observations to report after some very hot testing in the shop (100+ degrees). I've taken this seriously regardless of the communication issues, and went back to some old notes and tried to remember some details as sketchy as they are. Questions first. Please answer directly.

1) When you were previously testing the unit with 2T and cycling through the settings, which torch were you using? What color torch was it? Was it the green amp control torch? or the gray one without the amptrol? Or was it without the torch plugged in at all?
2) When you previously were testing 2T function did you have it in the d00 setting which would not allow you to select 4T?
3) Have you re-evaluated the unit for upslope/downslope function in the new background menu setting that allows you to select 2T or 4T (D01)? If so, both torches?

Now for the observations:
1) My unit when it is connected to the green amp control torch in D00 in 2T allows only gas flow adjustment, as stated before, but was not clearly stated which torch.
2) When in D01, and connected to either torch it allows up slope and downslope...no start amps, as it defaults to 5 amps DC and 15 amps AC as minimum start current and ramps up and down to that amperage
3) When in D00 with the non amp control torch(gray) slope works in 2T but not start end amps...as long as the foot pedal isn't plugged in and the torch switch itself is used.

This is an early test unit before program changes were made, and I specified a new special programmed panel to test some upgrades and efficacy testing and this is the one installed. Old panel was returned to factory for further testing. Same unit, different panel. Neither were production panels.

[RichardH]

Judgeless,
If you'd like to describe what you'd like tested, I can compare with my unit. I also got that torch. I use it, but with a foot pedal; based on behavior when I connect it to the control port, I'd expect it to behave as if it were a pedal, but I actually haven't tried the trigger & amp control on it.

Regards,
Richard

[Judgeless]

Performance I am sorry I did not get back quicker. I was out of town last night.

I started from scratch today. Your question about using different torches changes the way the unit works made me try different options.

With the gray torch 2T and 4T work well. If hidden menu D08 is set to1 I have more control. It adds up slope and down slope control using DC in T2 mode.

With the pedal it works well. If hidden menu D08 is set to1 I have more control. It adds up slope and down slope control using DC in T2 mode.

With the green variable torch 4T works now. I can use the knob to adjust the current. You can see it in the arc and on the display. I am not sure why it did not work before.

With the green variable torch 2T does not work. The arc starts and runs for about 5 seconds. When the arc goes out, the 210EXT makes a clicking noise. When I try starting it again it runs for 2 seconds and starts clicking. Torch is turned all the way up and the unit is set for 100A.

It is not a big deal because I do not think I would ever use 2T with the green torch variable option. I am curious on why it is doing that. Also is it a sign of something failing? Since most things are working would you still like for me to answer any of those questions?

[Judgeless]

1) When you were previously testing the unit with 2T and cycling through the settings, which torch were you using? What color torch was it? Was it the green amp control torch? or the gray one without the amptrol? Or was it without the torch plugged in at all?
2) When you previously were testing 2T function did you have it in the d00 setting which would not allow you to select 4T?
3) Have you re-evaluated the unit for upslope/downslope function in the new background menu setting that allows you to select 2T or 4T (D01)? If so, both torches?

Now for the observations:
1) My unit when it is connected to the green amp control torch in D00 in 2T allows only gas flow adjustment, as stated before, but was not clearly stated which torch.
2) When in D01, and connected to either torch it allows up slope and downslope...no start amps, as it defaults to 5 amps DC and 15 amps AC as minimum start current and ramps up and down to that amperage
3) When in D00 with the non amp control torch(gray) slope works in 2T but not start end amps...as long as the foot pedal isn't plugged in and the torch switch itself is used.

What do you mean by D00 and D01? Do you mean D08 set to 1 or 0?

[performance]

Yes, should be d08-01 or d08-02.
The noise you hear is the solid state HF firing. Sign of early failure? It isn't likely. I am not sure which 2T mode (d08) you are using when it is not working.

This confusion is one reason the new 210EXT and the 255EXT have deleted the background menus. It's limited some of the adjustability like HF frequency adjustment, and the arc transfer amps (although similar results can be obtained by setting a high start amp adjustment) to fixed settings, but from the 255ext, no one has complained about those features being fixed.

Edit: Try again...too many plates spinning on sticks...d08-00 or d08-01...

[everlastsupport]

Your posts haven't been deleted, not by me at least. Not sure which posts you are referring to.

One post was deleted, but it was by the OP.

[Judgeless]

Yes, should be d08-01 or d08-02.
The noise you hear is the solid state HF firing. Sign of early failure? It isn't likely. I am not sure which 2T mode (d08) you are using when it is not working.

Do you mean D08-00 or D08-01?

I have tried both D08 settings using 2T and both do the same. I will take a video of it happening. It does not happen with the gray torch.

[Judgeless]

Here is a video of it happening.



I never let off the button. It stops by itself. In that video it did not make that clicking noise. It does click sometimes. The odd thing is I can take the green torch off and connect the gray torch and it works perfect in 2T mode every time.

[performance]

The torches feed different information to the unit as what to do with the pot wires connected to the circuit.

[Judgeless]

The torches feed different information to the unit as what to do with the pot wires connected to the circuit.

Why do you think the unit fails to operate in 2T mode using the Everlast variable green torch. Here is the video again. When I press and hold the button it stops welding at random times. I never take my finger of the button. It just stops. I am going to buy a cheap Harbor Freight helmet so I can use its lens to take video of the weld process. You will see that I never let off the button.

[Rambozo]

That sure looks like an intermittent open in either the torch switch, cable, or connector. If you have a latching meter you could test that while wiggling things. If so, no wonder things would seem crazy for you.

[everlastsupport]

Just use an ohm meter. If you have one with the BEEP on short, you can wiggle and see if the sounds goes away. Otherwise watch the meter for an open.

[Judgeless]

Just use an ohm meter. If you have one with the BEEP on short, you can wiggle and see if the sounds goes away. Otherwise watch the meter for an open.

I will check it. What pins should I check?

[Judgeless]

Can someone post the pin out for this torch? I searched the forums and nothing clearly points out the pin out. I am looking for a simple list like this.

Pin 1 – function
Pin 2 – function
Pin 3 – function
Pin 4 – function
Pin 5 – function

[Kempy]

this should be the pin function for all Everlast machine it is for all mine.

[performance]

Kempy the 210ext US version currently has a 5 pin connector just like the MTS and migs

This connection along with other pedal pinouts for Everlast units is found under technical bulletins and tips...Sticky at the top of the page. Hard to miss.
http://forums.everlastgenerators.com...-pedal-pinouts