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Thread: how do you like your MTS250S and can you answer some questions

  1. Default how do you like your MTS250S and can you answer some questions

    I am looking at buying one but I want to know what you think of yours and how do you use it. I have a few concerns about it. First I see that it goes up to 26 volts. I weld pretty heavy metal and am wondering if it will go into spray transfer with .035 wire. I have a millermatic 200 . It will go up to 260 amps at 35% duty cycle and it will go up to 30 volts. To go into spray transfer I have to run it at 28 - 30 volts. At 26 it is still in short arc but is on the edge. If I lowered the wire speed a little I might get into spray . Then can you get a 15 foot gun with it or what after market mig guns will fit it. The next thing would be how do you like the way it stick welds. Does it do ok with 6010 rod and 7018? I do not know if I will use all the bells and whistles that the machine has but I need the capacity and portability. I have been dragging my 200 around but it is so big that it is a hassle that I would rather do without. I sure wish it would go up to 28 volts though.
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  2. Default

    Gary, I have no knowledge about a Millermatic 200. Never used one and the amount of steel wire I've run in my life is probably less than 50# so I am useless on those two accounts. The only thing I could add is: does your machine have a voltmeter? I wouldn't trust what the pot, dial or crank says. My Porta-Flex has a pot current control and what it says and what the voltmeter says are two different things. So much so that I never even look at the numbers the knob points to. The crank on my ancient AirCo MIGet Cav II is so far off that's it's funny. Yes, It still has a spool gun hooked to it and welds as good as anything I've ever used. Which brings up the fact that there is nothing magic about IGBT technology.

    I'm kinda surprised you haven't had anyone answer you. I wouldn't go for it until you get a good answer from someone knowledgeable, though.

  3. Default

    Thanks for the reply Yofish, My MM200 has a high and low range for voltage switch with another switch that has 6 settings . they change the voltage by approx 2 volts per position. So low would be 10v,12,14v,16,18,20 then high is 20v,22v,24v,26v,28v,30v. They are surprisingly close too. In 26v setting I can do spray but it just is not as smooth and steady as it is if it is in the 28v , and 30v taps. I will wait for some replies . I am not going to be using it for several weeks as I am on to a job that I will not need it. I am surprised that a machine with a 250 amp rating only has a 26 volt max.
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  4. #4

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    I do believe it goes higher. Kempy can verify I think. I don't have one in front of me to check now. I think it goes to 28 volts.

  5. #5

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    26 volts according to the Spec sheet/manual
    Some of those lies people tell about me, are true

  6. #6
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    The MTS250S in Synergic mode set to 26V will go into the low 30's when welding. The book said it is 29V plus/minus 3.0V. My machine will only show 26.0 Volts, I weld aluminum in Synergic mode 3/8 plate at 22.3V to get it to spray weld 21 to 21.7V it will spray if the metal is hot if not in starts gobbler then goes in and out of spray have to get it to 22.3V to 22.5V to start in spray weld if I go over 23.0V it will melt the tip off. In steel in Synergic Mode on 1/2 steel plate I have it set to 25.4V to get it to spray weld 26V it is to hot and some times melts the tip off. When welding my son said the volts when set to the 22.5V on aluminum welding it will go into the high 20's some times hit 30V.
    I will check later and see what it will do in stick mode I have some 7018 AC or DC rod.
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  7. #7

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    Kempy are you using a 90/10 or 85/15 or some other high Argon mix? The tip melting off shouldn't happen...this is where the inductance adjustment should help...and a little extra wire feed.

  8. #8
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    Mark
    I use 75/25 75% argon and 25% Co2 for steel and 100% argon for aluminum some times 20% helium and 80% argon on thicker aluminum.
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  9. #9
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    This in synergic mode on the MTS250S the welds are in spray mode for aluminum and steel.

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  10. #10

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    If you use a higher Ar content, spray would be easier and more stable and controllable and you'd need less volts and with some fine tuning to inductance, you should be able to eliminate the tip melting issue. That means the wire is burning back faster than it is being fed...so increase wire speed, or reduce voltage. Inductance will change how fast the balls burn off the tip...or rather droplet size if I recall correctly. Threshold for true spray in steel is 80/20. I use a C18, which is 82/18 Ar/CO2. Most people recommend 85/15 or 90/10. I too don't have to turn my machine wide open. I have a 250 (270 amp max) esab and spray in the mid range with .035 with wire speed about 65%.
    Last edited by performance; 04-11-2014 at 04:22 PM.

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kempy View Post
    Mark
    I use 75/25 75% argon and 25% Co2 for steel and 100% argon for aluminum some times 20% helium and 80% argon on thicker aluminum.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wowser! Something amiss by the looks of those tips for sure! When I look at the AL weld, it looks almost like too much wire for the volts. I am not a steel guy but that weld looks gorgeous. Are you welding the steel with the spool gun too? Are they both .035" wire? 4043 or 5356 filler on the AL? What flavor is the parent material in the AL?

    What happens when you turn off the synergic function (if you can)? FWIW, I never weld on anything above .250" AL without pre-heat unless I was in Arizona, outside, at noon, on a sunny day!

  12. #12
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    I use .035 and .030 and some times .025 for thin to thicker steel, aluminum I use .030 and .035. .040 is just to heavy for the spool gun to push most of the time I use 4043 wire but with the Mig gun is will use 5356. If I do a lot of welding all over the place I will use the spool gun but heavy work I use the Mig gun it is a 15 foot one. Most of the aluminum I weld is .125 tubing and I use the spool gun when welding 1/4 up to 1/2 I use the spool gun also with 4043 .035 wire 95% argon 5% helium.
    Most of the time when the tips melt off the gun is getting very hot I need a bigger gun or a push pull.
    I do use the weld not in SYN mode but in Synergic mode it weld nicer it will adjust its self as you weld. I normal mode doing the same thickness of material it is OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    Wowser! Something amiss by the looks of those tips for sure! When I look at the AL weld, it looks almost like too much wire for the volts. I am not a steel guy but that weld looks gorgeous. Are you welding the steel with the spool gun too? Are they both .035" wire? 4043 or 5356 filler on the AL? What flavor is the parent material in the AL?

    What happens when you turn off the synergic function (if you can)? FWIW, I never weld on anything above .250" AL without pre-heat unless I was in Arizona, outside, at noon, on a sunny day!
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  13. #13
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    When I use higher argon mix the gun get very hot and burns the insulator out of the cup. I ordered a 26KD torch to see if that will help the 25AK is being push over its limit need to find a 300 Amp gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    If you use a higher Ar content, spray would be easier and more stable and controllable and you'd need less volts and with some fine tuning to inductance, you should be able to eliminate the tip melting issue. That means the wire is burning back faster than it is being fed...so increase wire speed, or reduce voltage. Inductance will change how fast the balls burn off the tip...or rather droplet size if I recall correctly. Threshold for true spray in steel is 80/20. I use a C18, which is 82/18 Ar/CO2. Most people recommend 85/15 or 90/10. I too don't have to turn my machine wide open. I have a 250 (270 amp max) esab and spray in the mid range with .035 with wire speed about 65%.
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    Miller Dynasty 400 wireless(Canada)
    Millermatic 252 plus 30A Spoolgun(Canada)

  14. Default

    Kempy, here is 3/8" 6061 done with the little welder. 22.5V, 210 wire. 3/64" wire, 5356 (it's the only filler alloy I ever use). I quit using mixed gas years ago as it wasn't worth the extra cost for the marginal benefit. For everyday frying I use 18- 20 cuft/hr 100% argon. The piece has been pre-heated to 200 degrees or so, to hot to touch but for a tap. I can't quite wrap my head around why your gun won't run .047 if it has that capability. The 30A has no problems running 1/16" wire. One thing I can tell you that the 30A won't do spray running .047" wire with an .052" tip. It will eventually burn back and weld to the tip if you're putting the stones to it, like doing a lot of thick material. Stepping up to a .061" tip solves that to a point. I think Push-pull would not solve the problem you have, with AL, anyway. The 30A is rated 100% @ 200A but one could never achieve that without water cooling. My point is, if you haven't already, try a big tip with .047" wire in your spool gun. Also, with the older so-called second generation 30A guns, one has the ability to adjust the tip stick-out. Thus on heavy stuff I stick her back inside to get more cooling from the gas shield around the tip. Not being familiar with your gun, I don't know if this applies.

    Another question I have is how many lin. feet of heavy AL do you weld before things go south?

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    Yofish
    I tried 5356 .045 and the gun has a hard time with it I put in .035 5356 and had to put the setting up to 22.6V wire speed and amps 245 to get this weld but still black had to brush it.
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    When using .035 4043 it will spray at the same settings but not be black, both using 100% Argon.
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    When using .045 5356 same settings as yours it would work for about .25 of a inches and then slowed down then speed up making the weld not smooth.
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  16. Default

    kempy, nothing unusual about the black soot (smut) when using 5356. It's from the magnesium in the wire that has a lower boiling point than aluminum; some of it it vaporizes out. It's worse on 6061-6063. You can crank up the Ar which will help. Also a little more radical 'push' angle helps too. When I look at the weld that was done (assuming preheat) at the settings I used it looks like too much wire and not enough volts. I'd go up a volt and down 5-10 on the wire and turn off the synergic function, maybe slow down a little and open up the weld. keep cranking down the wire until the edges thin out. That spatter is also something that's gonna happen more with 5356. That you can only go 1/4" before things get funky is not right.

    Spool guns have a couple of things about them that suck. I haven't had one that didn't have a 'rhythm' to it. I think it's from several things: the two biggest, I think, is the necessary small small diameter of the drive roll and the short distance the tightly wound wire off a four inch spool travels which doesn't get straightened out in a long conduit as with push-pull. My spool guns run 1/16" smoother than smaller wire. Periodically, I take the toothed drive rolls and soak them in a caustic soda solution that overnight, dissolves the embedded AL. I have one gun that has a 'twitch' that flicks .035 wire at a regular interval. Drives me nuts. So I don't run that wire in it. Though I do most of my serious welding with a suitcase and 20# 12" rolls I do buy 1# spools off FleaBay because I'm cheap. It's surprising how different brands run differently. I've had some small dia. wires come out at such a radical angle, like a claw, that I'd have to go to a smaller tip to help out. This is one of the advantages of the so-called second generation 30A guns - they make 8 different dia. contact tips.

  17. #17
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    Yofish, I will do what you suggested with the spool gun. I will try some of the 5356 .045 I have with my iMig250 with my Mig gun since it is so stiff. I have lots of 12" rolls of wire that was given to me from a welding place that went under. Two rolls of stainless 309L and 316L .035, two ERCuSi-A Silicon Bronze .035, one 4043 .035, two 5356 .045, one 5356 .035, two flux core .045 and .062, and solid wire I do not know what they are since they do not have tags on them, some day I will try them out.
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  18. #18
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    Decided to try 100% argon and not mix gases like 25/75 or 15/85 or 10/90 just straight argon when weld steel with the MTS250S and it weld much better and it went into spray mode very easily using normal settings not SYN mode. Set to 23.5V , 212 wire and amps.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kempy View Post
    Decided to try 100% argon and not mix gases like 25/75 or 15/85 or 10/90 just straight argon when weld steel with the MTS250S and it weld much better and it went into spray mode very easily using normal settings not SYN mode. Set to 23.5V , 212 wire and amps.
    Are you going to cut and etch it to check penetration ?
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  20. #20

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    Full Argon results in a wider, sloppier puddle and low penetration. That's why some CO2 or O2 is needed.

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