how do you like your MTS250S and can you answer some questions

[Kempy]

Yofish
I tried 5356 .045 and the gun has a hard time with it I put in .035 5356 and had to put the setting up to 22.6V wire speed and amps 245 to get this weld but still black had to brush it.


When using .035 4043 it will spray at the same settings but not be black, both using 100% Argon.


When using .045 5356 same settings as yours it would work for about .25 of a inches and then slowed down then speed up making the weld not smooth.

[Yofish]

kempy, nothing unusual about the black soot (smut) when using 5356. It's from the magnesium in the wire that has a lower boiling point than aluminum; some of it it vaporizes out. It's worse on 6061-6063. You can crank up the Ar which will help. Also a little more radical 'push' angle helps too. When I look at the weld that was done (assuming preheat) at the settings I used it looks like too much wire and not enough volts. I'd go up a volt and down 5-10 on the wire and turn off the synergic function, maybe slow down a little and open up the weld. keep cranking down the wire until the edges thin out. That spatter is also something that's gonna happen more with 5356. That you can only go 1/4" before things get funky is not right.

Spool guns have a couple of things about them that suck. I haven't had one that didn't have a 'rhythm' to it. I think it's from several things: the two biggest, I think, is the necessary small small diameter of the drive roll and the short distance the tightly wound wire off a four inch spool travels which doesn't get straightened out in a long conduit as with push-pull. My spool guns run 1/16" smoother than smaller wire. Periodically, I take the toothed drive rolls and soak them in a caustic soda solution that overnight, dissolves the embedded AL. I have one gun that has a 'twitch' that flicks .035 wire at a regular interval. Drives me nuts. So I don't run that wire in it. Though I do most of my serious welding with a suitcase and 20# 12" rolls I do buy 1# spools off FleaBay because I'm cheap. It's surprising how different brands run differently. I've had some small dia. wires come out at such a radical angle, like a claw, that I'd have to go to a smaller tip to help out. This is one of the advantages of the so-called second generation 30A guns - they make 8 different dia. contact tips.

[TheGary]

Well I was going to start a new thread but the thread starter button does not work So Im going to ask the question here. I have been on this site for about 7 or 8 months and still confused. There have been statements made about an industrial line of welder and the ones sold on this web site. So I guess I would like to know if the welders sold on this site are for industrial use or not. Are they of equivalent quality to miller dynasty welders and sutch or not. There have been comments about needing 50K to get an industrial catalog. I have been using and buying welders most of my adult life and have never heard of sutch a thing. For instance miller sells bobcat line of gas drives but also sell trailblazer line and others but they are all available to anyone. I want to compare apples to apples. Not compare a hobby welder to a welder designed for daily use in industrial use.

[performance]

Gary,
You have to decide for yourself based off your use habits etc, whether something is industrial or not. Miller rates everything as commercial/industrial nearly, though many units would not be considered as such. We have a couple basic "industrial" units already on our site. We're talking about day in, day out, 12 hour shift work, near max capacity production work. They are the MTS 400, the PP 100, and the PowerTIG 315lx the PowerTIG 325EXT etc.

When we discuss industrial, we are talking about units that retail usually over 3k and up to 8 k for the basic units. We are also talking about units that are 3 phase only with heavy potted boards etc different designs etc.

Many people use our product in professional settings. It's a name that refers to it's capability and level of use. There are other names such as commercial, industrial, and now Mr. TIG is throwing around a self created name called "Utility". He and I have had a talk about it. His videos try to portray the Everlast line as a lower, utility class level for homeowners. Well, that' simply not true and he has made up the word "utility" to describe our welders, much to the dismay and disagreement of several within the ranks. But I would not say that a Everlast Power iMIG 140E is a industrial unit, though many professionals may use it in a muffler shop or some light repair facility. But Miller would call this unit somewhere between light industrial to industrial..... http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...e/basics6.html

Duty cycle, amps, and power input in my mind decide what "industrial" is. We produce our industrial line in smaller qty lots, and have orders for them before they are shipped...with the exception of the smaller, more widely demanded items. When I say 50k....that is in part a minimum order qty that we need to meet to produce the product. That's why we sell these direct to larger companies and organizations, many overseas on pipelines in the middle east, oil derricks etc all over the world. Price wise for us here in the US it is hard enough to sell excellent products like the MTS 400 because the price is rising above the average consumer who is interested in our product here in the US.

We have full synergic digital double pulse 600 amp MIG units with exhaustive parameter setups and even power bank welders that we can and do manufacture if it is right. And these units are in a whole different class. IF you want to get a sample and taste, get the MTS 400. On 240V 1 phase operation, it is limited to 250 amps, but it's 100% duty cycle too at that level.

Here's the sample out of one of our catalogs of our analog and industrial line of MIG/Multiprocess welders that I am referring to...up to 630 amps. Note that the E MTS 400 is the one we sell here simply as the MTS 400. The other smaller MIGs are different design than what we sell, and are typically more expensive than the ones we sell here...which puts them above the equivalent Miller transformer welders...which makes it a moot point to sell them here in the US but not elsewhere if requested.

[Kempy]

Yofish, I will do what you suggested with the spool gun. I will try some of the 5356 .045 I have with my iMig250 with my Mig gun since it is so stiff. I have lots of 12" rolls of wire that was given to me from a welding place that went under. Two rolls of stainless 309L and 316L .035, two ERCuSi-A Silicon Bronze .035, one 4043 .035, two 5356 .045, one 5356 .035, two flux core .045 and .062, and solid wire I do not know what they are since they do not have tags on them, some day I will try them out.

[Kempy]

Decided to try 100% argon and not mix gases like 25/75 or 15/85 or 10/90 just straight argon when weld steel with the MTS250S and it weld much better and it went into spray mode very easily using normal settings not SYN mode. Set to 23.5V , 212 wire and amps.

[zoama]

Decided to try 100% argon and not mix gases like 25/75 or 15/85 or 10/90 just straight argon when weld steel with the MTS250S and it weld much better and it went into spray mode very easily using normal settings not SYN mode. Set to 23.5V , 212 wire and amps.

Are you going to cut and etch it to check penetration ?

[performance]

Full Argon results in a wider, sloppier puddle and low penetration. That's why some CO2 or O2 is needed.

[Kempy]

Are you going to cut and etch it to check penetration ?

this is the test piece cut with the saw.

[zoama]

this is the test piece cut with the saw.

Thank you for sharing. What thickness is the steel and how do you rate the penetration ?
I wish we had more threads on spray transfer. Real world practical information is hard to come by on this subject.

[performance]

Yes, that is shallow...not as good as it should be with a mix...

[performance]

Thank you for sharing. What thickness is the steel and how do you rate the penetration ?
I wish we had more threads on spray transfer. Real world practical information is hard to come by on this subject.

I spray transfer routinely. What would you like to know? There are several good slow mo videos online about it and a few good sites...if I could only find them again...lol.

[everlastsupport]

this is the test piece cut with the saw.

I would add CO2. The depth is not the great. Marks like C18, but you need CO2 either way. We use Stargon or C25.

[Yofish]

kempy, certainly not a 'sloppy' weld. As I've said, I'm not a steel guy but there is nothing inferior about a weld that has that kind of root penetration. Root penetration is root penetration. The AWS doesn't say much about it because it's not easily measurable like the leg or face of a weld.

AWS D14.3-94, paragraph 2.3.1.1, reads as follows:“Design values based on depth of penetration or effective throat, or both, which are beyond the root of the joint shall only be used when the values have been determined from a significant number of cross-sectioned samples which reflect the range of materials, material thickness, and welding conditions.”

Imagine a spec'd 1" fillet weld - it wouldn't have any more 'root penetration' because that would be accomplished on the first pass at the root!

Of course, it is a 'good thing' to have adequate root penetration but not in the sacrifice of other things.

Here is your weld that I drew over because the outline of the weld is fairly easy to see:



YOU'RE HIRED! Nothing wrong with this weld! Everyone has a way of getting to an end. Obviously, you made a nice appearing and sound weld. You learned from the experience, that's something to build on and expand. Listening to people tell you 'the best way' to do things is in the end, limiting.

[TheGary]

Thanks for clearing that up Mark. I guess I always go by duty cycle. To me if a machine is rated at 60% duty cycle it is industrial. I know many new migs are rated at 35% like the mts250s. I have a millermatic 200 I purchased new in the 80s it is rated at 200 amps 60%. The new miller 252 is its newer equivalent as far as duty cycle and output go. So in my mind the MTS250S is a 200 amp industrial model even though it is rated at 250 amps. If my comparison is incorrect let me know. I will be using it in a light industrial capacity but I do not want to have to replace it every couple years. In my mind if a machine is kept below its duty cycle it should last for many years. Like my MM200, I have no intention of replacing it since it does such a good job . My expectation of the MTS250S is going to be compared against my MM200 since their duty cycles and output are very close to each other.

[performance]

The 250S also only has an 8" roll capacity currently

[TheGary]

The 250S also only has an 8" roll capacity currently

I can live with the 8 in roll since I want it to be portable. I really do not need all the bells and whistles the 250s has. Actually a machine like the Imig 205 would do me fine but I need the 250 amps of the 250s.

[TheGary]

Sorry to be out of action on my own thread. I have been working 16 days straight. This is the first chance I have had to be on line. Kempy has answered the spray transfer question . Does anyone know about how well it welds 7018 rod and 6010 rod? I will be buying one either way but it would be nice to not have to have a separate machine to stick weld with.( I always have my Miller 302 with me but I use customer power most of the time and do not want to fire up the 302 if I do not have to.)