OK, neighbors here I go...

[Yofish]

Spray? Hmmm. We could have quite a discussion about 'spray' but lets say I generally prefer something that may have a little good old short-arc in there. Look at spray arc aluminum under the microscope and one sees aluminum foam. Short arc bigger bubbles and more berries but I'm not sure one is better over the other strength wise. Not arguing here but more to the point of the way I do it and what works for me. The point is 'spray' has no magic for me. One does not repair a canoe with mig by 'spraying', for example.

[performance]

Spray is the only accepted form of aluminum MIG welding (counting pulsed spray)...you get no fusion with short circuit and many inclusions...you won't find a reputable source suggesting otherwise. Short circuit is extremely unreliable...and can crack and even crumble under stress. You might use it to plug a hole sort of like spackle, but fusion will be poor. One does not (should not rather) repair a thin canoe with MIG... This is for TIG. But if one were to repair a canoe, .023 should be used to prevent too much heat input. I am not sure where the information you are citing is coming from, but if it is done correctly it is stronger, and more even. But enough about my thoughts and experience. You can't get more authoritative and unarguable source than this: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...e-on-Aluminum/.

If you have bubbles in spray, then you have poor gas shielding, or holding it too far off.

[Yofish]

Spray is the only accepted form of aluminum MIG welding (counting pulsed spray)...you get no fusion with short circuit and many inclusions...you won't find a reputable source suggesting otherwise. Short circuit is extremely unreliable...and can crack and even crumble under stress. You might use it to plug a hole sort of like spackle, but fusion will be poor. One does not (should not rather) repair a thin canoe with MIG... This is for TIG. But if one were to repair a canoe, .023 should be used to prevent too much heat input. I am not sure where the information you are citing is coming from, but if it is done correctly it is stronger, and more even. But enough about my thoughts and experience. You can't get more authoritative and unarguable source than this: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...e-on-Aluminum/.

If you have bubbles in spray, then you have poor gas shielding, or holding it too far off.

Man, I don't know what to say to you other than you haven't been welding very long if you believe whatever Miller tells you! When is the last time you looked at your welds under a 'scope'? And tell me now, where does short arc and spray transition?

As far as repairing a canoe with mig, obviously you've never done it. If you have a machine that can tune, droplet transfer works fine on thin stock in the open with mig. Of course, there are limits. I'm not here to get in peeing contest. I'm just an old fart that's been around since before 'pulse' anything.

"If you have bubbles in spray, then you have poor gas shielding, or holding it too far off". Thanks for the tip. Since starting in 1974, I didn't know that. Imagine.

[performance]

Been welding almost as long as you, (1978) and also have had formal, and informal education and the hands of some pretty good welders. I can send you to dozens of other trusted and respected resources including the AWS about this subject. I've also seen many of an irrigation pipe welded with short circuit aluminum that didn't hold too because some farmer or jackleg welder didn't understand what it was and how poor fusion it was...In fact not long ago, I was called in to test a unit at a LWS. It was a Miller, and the customer was trying to weld some thin wall pipe in short circuit mode...and it was coming apart. I put it into spray and there was no issue from then on. I am not saying you can't blob out some metal in short circuit, sort of like puttying up some caulk or even epoxy, but it isn't structurally sound nor is an accepted practice. I have repaired canoes and john boats and much more. That's why they keep me on here.

I've seen welders do a lot of things that shouldn't be done and claim this or that and someone elses ignorance and try to debunk the tried and tested science of welding by claiming personal success with some non standard practice. It doesn't make it right, correct, recommended, or even safe. I've also seen people drive at 120 miles per hour without wrecking on the interstate and claim they could because they were good drivers...until the law caught up with them eventually. I've seen people welded cast iron steel with a 7018. It'll hold look good and solid until it is handled...I've seen guys weld by squinting their eyes without a helmet until they got cataracts. I've seen welders over pressurize their Acetylene....and I've seen the results where it caught up with the person too. I just had a friend who was welding near arosol cans and did it for years until one little drop of metal flung onto a can just right and sent him to the burn unit with 2 and 3rd degree burns on 60% of his body. To make a long story short, if I was in a canoe ( which I have many an hour in) repaired with a short circuit mig, I wouldn't take it in any white water, and I'd keep my life jacket on.

Mig doesn't just transition from short arc to spray. It goes through globular transfer first. But there is a definite difference, sort of like breaking the sound barrier. When you are in spray, it is a quite, smooth process and vastly different than short circuit. If you are in globular, it is a rough, shaky ride. Exact thresholds for volts and amps will vary according to wire diameter, and wire type, and even inductance setting.

[Yofish]

You win, I don't care you top me. You're smarter, have more experience and are more intelligent. Here is a short arc weld single pass on the outside of corner-to-corner .100" 5052 Notice the lack of penetration and porosity. I give up.



Lets go back to the beginning, which is the most important thing to me. In my entire welding career EVERY company that I've dealt with has been helpful to me in trying to tie together what ever combination of equipment. That does not seem to be the case here. Hey mark, the fact that you even answer with some great info is cool but to say that the 30A won't work because it 'is too big' is, come on, ridiculous. Just help me do what I want to do like Miller, Hobart, Airco, Lincoln and Printz have done for me in the past. Too much to ask? I realize 'I'm voiding the warranty', hell yes! You guys really want to sell welders? To what? saturday afternoon hobbyists and auto garage welders? All the BS about what I know or don't know, or the speculation about what I'm trying to do is a waste of time. There are circuits and things to be aware of to make this work. And bottom line, don't mean squat if you help me or not. I'll figure it out and if I blow her up in the process, so be it!

[zoama]

You win, I don't care you top me. You're smarter, have more experience and are more intelligent. Here is a short arc weld single pass on the outside of corner-to-corner .100" 5052 Notice the lack of penetration and porosity. I give up.



Lets go back to the beginning, which is the most important thing to me. In my entire welding career EVERY company that I've dealt with has been helpful to me in trying to tie together what ever combination of equipment. That does not seem to be the case here. Hey mark, the fact that you even answer with some great info is cool but to say that the 30A won't work because it 'is too big' is, come on, ridiculous. Just help me do what I want to do like Miller, Hobart, Airco, Lincoln and Printz have done for me in the past. Too much to ask? I realize 'I'm voiding the warranty', hell yes! You guys really want to sell welders? To what? saturday afternoon hobbyists and auto garage welders? All the BS about what I know or don't know, or the speculation about what I'm trying to do is a waste of time. There are circuits and things to be aware of to make this work. And bottom line, don't mean squat if you help me or not. I'll figure it out and if I blow her up in the process, so be it!

Please don't give up, as a fellow scientist I'd like to see what you come up with.

A partial quote from Philip Morris Hauser...

Science is the most subversive thing that has ever been devised by man. It is a discipline in which the rules of the game require the undermining of that which already exists, in the sense that new knowledge always necessarily crowds out inferior antecedent knowledge. . . . . This is what the patent system is all about. We reward a man for subverting and undermining that which is already known. . . . . Man has a tendency to resist changing his mind. The history of the physical sciences is replete with episode after episode in which the discoveries of science, subversive as they were because they undermined existing knowledge, had a hard time achieving acceptability and respectability. Galileo was forced to recant; Bruno was burned at the stake; and so forth. An interesting thing about the physical sciences is that they did achieve acceptance.

[fdcmiami]

who knows what his plan is. don't much care; the fact that he barked at the two guys trying to help him out was enough to bark back and believe me I am frequently at odds with them. you have recently decided to try mobile welding. I have the same trailblazer (and a load of other equipment) personally I don't care what makes them tick as long as they keep ticking. you will find as you do more work that your field unit will morph into something that supports the work you do.

here is a photo of the dockside setup I use when there is shore power which there nearly always is because most boats of size require it. (you don't want to go near the little ones...no money).

I also have a complete rig on a trailer and a couple of inverters; 250EX being one. if you were to show up down here with that wacky setup you would be laughed off the job.
miller rules near the water. if you are up in marinette or green bay and see a boatyard take a peek inside if you can.



does this look like a concept drawing?

http://bayweldboats.com/services/new...-9-5%e2%80%b2/

hey, if this guy is from this company I am all ears, just doesn't add up does it.

[fdcmiami]

that photo of the skiff looks like a build that was done by kevin morin. I believe the thread was on the Glen-L.com site.

if you are kevin morin, my apologies to you. I doubt this though since I read anything I happen to see that has been written by him.

I am no boat builder but I have been doing repair work on aluminum boats for about 25 years. and I have spent that much time in boat yards and marinas in

south florida. so what you are I have no idea but your comments obviously grabbed the attention of the more knowledgeable poster's here. viewers wishing to

learn more about aluminum welding and welding techniques might try the metal boat society, glen L .com, aluminum boat building, metal meet. etc.

here are a couple of links to posts by mr. morin. occasionally you will find him on miller's site or welding web.

no, it can't be. just some poser scalping photos from the net.

if you really want to see what's involved with building aluminum boat read some of the threads on the sites listed.

portable welding? I have found an xmt 304/350, 30A, 50 ft extension have worked well for me for a long, long time. if I saw this guy dockside I would think he must be

retarded. lol



http://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24172

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php...n-Boat-Builder

http://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16564

[TheGary]

fdcmiami, Now that was a us full post and I can understand to an extent your doubts. I understand what Yofish is doing. He did not just want a mobil rig, he wanted a light easy to handle mobil rig that is easy to take in a small plane or to drag out to a boat for a small job or a remote job. He used a gun he already had and liked and mated it to a mig machine he felt could do the job and meet his needs. Is it an expensive first class rig? No, but it meets his needs and can do the job.
It sounds like you have a nice set up but it does not meet the needs Yofish was building his for.

[Blaster]

I'm not here to get in peeing contest.

Sure you are....

Wanna know how somebody starts a pissin' contest?

They say something like this.

Man, I don't know what to say to you other than you haven't been welding very long if you believe whatever Miller tells you! When is the last time you looked at your welds under a 'scope'?

[zoama]

I'd like to see this thread stay on topic and not break down into members choosing sides of an irrelevant disagreement.
The man came here for answers to specific questions about modifying his equipment.
Maybe he will share some tips and tricks if we don't run him off.

[fdcmiami]

I build a lot of tanks. I'm 65 years old and don't have the hand I once did. I've built a trough that has a slot cut out of the lower corner that gives about 3/8" clearance to the top and side of a tank exposing 24" of corner to corner weld area. It has a piece of UHMW pipe slotted and clipped over the outboard edge for the gun to slide on. With my "hog trough", I can make a beautiful weld 20" long on .190 in no time, spraying.

hmmmmm

Spray? Hmmm. We could have quite a discussion about 'spray' but lets say I generally prefer something that may have a little good old short-arc in there. Look at spray arc aluminum under the microscope and one sees aluminum foam. Short arc bigger bubbles and more berries but I'm not sure one is better over the other strength wise. Not arguing here but more to the point of the way I do it and what works for me. The point is 'spray' has no magic for me. One does not repair a canoe with mig by 'spraying', for example.

does the nurse know you are out and about? sorry, I've got to go to work. i'm sure the boys on the trawler will appreciate your invention. lol