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Thread: Project 4 from Agent4573 - Category - Offroad Fabrication

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Whine Country, California
    Posts
    442

    Default

    It looks like things are coming along nicely on your build! Even with 200 plus horsepower it should be fun to drive. Granted, if you want to be the wheelie king at the dunes, a turbo will certainly help get you there! It will be interesting to see how close you can get everything to your predetermined dimensions. I always find that bigger projects like yours end up throwing you "curve balls" throughout the process, making it tough to stick to your original plan sometimes.

    Is the 2000lb. weight a guesstimate or are you basing that off of another person's sandrail that is similar to your build?
    Andy
    New Everlast PowerTig 250EX that is begging for me to come up with a few welding projects so it can stretch it's legs. Did someone say aluminum???

    MISC. TOOLS:
    Atlas 618 lathe
    Milwaukee Porta Band with custom made stand
    Dewalt 4-1/2" angle grinder
    Dewalt 14" chop saw

    Strong Hand Nomad portable table
    Juki sewing machine I've had for years (yes I know sewing is for girls)

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    Thought I would post an update. Haven't gotten much done on the frame in the last few weeks. Went camping for Presidents day and my extra money has gone to various motor parts to get that going. Picked up the adapter plate and a flywheel (new was ~500, paid 200), 2 Mass air flow sensors so I can run a true dual intake, an alternator and mounts, water pump pulley and some miscellaneous parts that were required. Spent about 350 bucks over the weekend, but all I'm missing now is a MAF pigtail and I should be able to start cleaning up the motor and attempting to fire it up. Anyone know a good way to crank a motor without a transmission/starter attached?
    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Disneyland
    Posts
    2,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by agent4573 View Post
    Anyone know a good way to crank a motor without a transmission/starter attached?


    Probably not what you had in mind.
    I would say make a custom bracket to hold the starter.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Litchfield Park, AZ
    Posts
    370

    Default

    Keep us posted, I would like to see how the project moves along. If you want to make the car street legal, move to Arizona. I have a coworker how has a sand rail that is a daily driver.
    Miller 252
    PowerTig 250 EXT
    Evolution Rage 2
    48X6 inch Belt Sander w/ 9 inch Disk Sander
    ...

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    Got a little bit of work done tonight. Got the upper crossbar for the feet in and the rear crossbar that goes behind the seats. Heading to the stee l shop tomorrow to pick up the steel for the main roll cage bars, and have tomorrow off so I can work on it for at least a few hours tomorrow and saturday. Ordered the tranny mounts and rear arm mounts today, should have em tomorrow or saturday.

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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Whine Country, California
    Posts
    442

    Default

    Keep going at this rate and you'll have it done in no time! I have been trying to get a little bit of work done on my projects each day, but lately I've been sick so that is slowing me down a little bit. How much do you estimate the steel for the chassis costing you by the time it's done (and rolling)?
    Andy
    New Everlast PowerTig 250EX that is begging for me to come up with a few welding projects so it can stretch it's legs. Did someone say aluminum???

    MISC. TOOLS:
    Atlas 618 lathe
    Milwaukee Porta Band with custom made stand
    Dewalt 4-1/2" angle grinder
    Dewalt 14" chop saw

    Strong Hand Nomad portable table
    Juki sewing machine I've had for years (yes I know sewing is for girls)

  7. Default

    Got quite a bit done today. Tomorrow I have to start fully welding in a few of the tubes so I can start getting some of the X-bracing in. Got the roll cages in (35 degree angle), B pillar (17 degrees), and the C pillar (vertical). There is still gonna be a rear tube to go in that slants the other way so its not a complete parallelogram. Still have one cross tube for the roof and then to X that in plus add the 2 verticals down the front of the "windshield" area and one tube going across the back of the front seat area, but that has to wait til I have seats. Going to try to install a CAD program tonight so I can draw up the front suspension bulkheads and install them in a few weeks.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

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    Over the weekend and today I got about 80% of the frame welded. They aren't the prettiest welds, but they're functional. My first few came out really cold and I realized that I was trying to keep to small of a bead. Once I backed the torch off a little and put more pedal into it, they started to flow better and look better. I'm not 100% happy with all of them, but I think they'll hold together. After I finish with everything, I'm going to take it to a friends house who welds for a living and let him clean up any that he thinks are dangerous. These all look quite a bit better in person and not with a camera 4 inches away from them on macro with a flash.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Disneyland
    Posts
    2,661

    Default

    It just takes practice. Overall they look ok, no obvious undercut and the like. Like you say it's hard to tell from pictures. They do look a little over-heated, but I know a flash picture will always do that. Try to use other lighting for weld pics. Even fluorescent is better about color than up close flash. I can't say I'm thrilled with that little piece added in to fix a short tube. Some of the welds look real good, so I would guess they the position makes a big difference for you. Having good visibility and access can help. Don't be afraid to flip your frame jig over on it's side for better access. Also once you have most of the frame tacked up good, and have welded out what you can, you can pull the frame off the jig and flip it around for the final weld up. We made it a point when building a new car, to only tack everything together until everything was in place, before taking it back apart for the full weld up. I can't count how many times a tacked in piece was cut back out because of a problem farther into the build.

    If you want a real world test of your welds, just weld up a couple of tube scraps, then bust out the big hammer and attempt to beat them apart and see that the steel fails before the welds. Weld them in the same positions as you did for your car, no fair cheating and doing them all in 1F and 2F.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

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    There is more than meets the eye to that tube extension. It wasn't what I wanted to do, but there are a few other places I needed to extend tubes like that mainly because I couldn't bend the full length or the steel yard couldn't get me the length I needed. Inside the 1.5" tube is a section of 1.25 tube button welded to both sides, then they are seam welded together. Its probably the strongest part of the entire frame since the wall thickness is well almost .25" at that point.
    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

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    Got the final tubes made for the main section. The rest will have to wait until I get the front suspension mounts plasma'd out or get the transmission mounted to the motor. The final tubes aren't welded in yet, but they will be tomorrow or tuesday. The main cross bar bent itself from too much heat when I was welding the rear trailing arm mounts on. It looks like the side with the mounts shrunk as it bends in on the outside of the tube as well. Whats the best way to go about shrinking the front of the tube? I don't need it to be perfect, but if I can get some of that bend out I'm going to try.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  12. Default

    Got some good news and some bad on the update for this project. I've been steadily getting parts together over the past month. I now have an almost operational engine, picked up the transmission, clutch, seats, all shocks, and a pedal assembly. Unfortunately, somewhere I messed up my measurements and have to remove the rollcage and increase my headroom ~6 inches. I don't know where I lost the height, but once I put the seat in there and put a helmet on, my head rubs the upper bars. I figure it set me back about 2 weeks with having to cut off, grind down, and redo the upper part of the roll cage. I'll post more pictures when I get it to the height it needs to be at.
    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Disneyland
    Posts
    2,661

    Default

    Measure twice, cut once?
    It happens. I've gotten to the point of trying to make good drawings or 3D models for as much stuff as I can. It's a whole lot easier to fix on the screen than in the shop. And if things change, I can easily get measurements from my drawing or model for things I didn't even think of when created.
    Or like they say, measure with a micrometer, mark with a crayon, cut with an ax. Proper planning is the biggest part of most jobs, and can save a lot of time down the road.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

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    Worked on it a bit over the weekend and past few weeks. Minor surgery took me down for about a week there and it pissed me off. Got the roll caged lifted and tacked back into place. Put a few bars in for the motor/trans mount. I cut out the plates that bolt to the motor and now have to make the stand-offs for it and the motor will be done. I think I went a little overboard, but its what I had on hand. The plates are made out of quarter inch steel, the downtubes for the motor mounts will be made out of 1"x.25 wall tube. It was expensive, but since I don't have a lathe, I needed some form of tubing that I could stick a 1/2" bolt through without making a spacer or insert for it. I have two more top tubes to put in that run from the top of the roll cage all the way to the ### end of the buggy, but the shape of them isn't decided yet. Once I get the motor solidly mounted I have to place the radiator and that will in part determine where those tubes go.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  15. Default

    Got quite a bit done today. Swapped out the drive flanges on the transaxle from 934/935 CV's to 930 CV's. Made the last few tubes for the rear part of the car. Motor mounts are made, transaxle mounts are in place. I'm in the process of fully welding everything up now. Spent about 3 hours welding tonight, gonna spend about 4 more tomorrow, but I have to work so it'll be late. I did find out that on the Powertig 185, the stock air cooled torch gets too hot to hold before the welder shuts itself off from over heating. Ordering a new tranny seal to fix a leak around the shifter and some seat sliders tonight so I can mount the front seats. Rear seat mounts are in place.

    I'm going to be mounting up the rear shocks soon and was wondering if anyone has any experience with internyal shock spacers to limit bump and droop. I've hear limit straps stretch and aren't ideal and that the best way to do it is to make custom poly spacers for inside the shock. Any input in this area would be greatly appreciated.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  16. Default

    Got the other front seat tacked into place and the pedals tacked in. Its a tight fit for everything, but there is enough leg room for a small adult in the back seat and I fit perfectly in the front, so I'm happy. Also had to drill out and remove a bolt that was snapped off in the used flywheel I bought. It actually came out a lot easier than I thought it would.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  17. Default

    Finally got my buddy to cnc plasma out the parts I was begging for. Got the front bulk heads for all the suspension and all my gussets. Got all the gussets tacked in tonight and I'm planning on doing the front suspension tomorrow. I ordered standard width front seats, but I think they sent me the +2" width front seats, as they are REALLY tight. The radiator is out of a 5.0 mustang and appears to be a pretty nice single pass radiator with an oil cooler. Hopefully its enough to keep the 3.0 liter Nissan cool. If not, I'll have to find a larger double pass radiator. Got the "windshield" downtubes remade and tacked in. Motor and transmission are in for good with the clutch and starter mounted. All I need to finish that is the slave cylinder. Tacked the pedals in but had to rip them out to put in the gussets. Once I put the seats in I realized the roll cage was way too low so I had to raise it to get some head room. Because its at an angle , when I raised it, it didn't hit the same point on the mid-rail as I planned initially, so I made up some braces to help spread the load out. I know its not ideal, but without redoing the entire bottom half of the frame, this is the best I could come up with. All the gussets are 3/16" mild steel. Also, I need to stop wearing short sleeves while I weld.

    P.S. I completely apologize for the rambling or fragments, I'm freaking drunk.


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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  18. #38

    Default

    The seats look tight in the shot where you have them both in, but they should be fine.

    Did he CNC the gussets? You could cut by hand with a jig-saw or plasma and grind them clean if he takes too long. There are a lot of good blades out there now. Blue Mole is a great blade for reciprocating saws, also Lenox, even Irwin are good for the bigger blades (I left out many others).

    Skip HF on anything that cuts or drills metal (outside of the cut/grind wheels)

    Looks like you are back on the project. Keep us posted.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  19. Default

    Yeah, he cnc'd the gussets out for me. He told me last week he was getting ready to cut all my stuff out so I drew up the gussets and sent over the files real quick. The front bulkheads were what I really needed because I couldn't do those by hand and I was running out of fab stuff to do on the chassis (yeah right).

    Anyway, here's what I got tacked in. I'm leaving later this week to head to DC/Philley/NYC for a week so any time I do get to work will be just fully welding in all the front end stuff. I'll wait til I get back to order the front shock mounts and finish up the front end. Also decided to cut out the mounts for the rear arms and go with a micro-stub setup. Its a lot stronger than the VW drive train and lets me use long axles, so hopefully I can get a bit more travel before I max out the CV's. I get better welds while on a table than I do while upside down under the car. I had to do these in ~2 inch stretches to minimize warpage, but overall I think they came out looking really good.

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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

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    Sorry I disappeared for a while, been working on the car and at my real job almost non stop. Here's a massive update.


    Got the front end in and done. Welded the upper shock mounts on and modified the arms for the lower mounts. I wanted to run an X acros the front but the steering shaft got in the way. I triangulated it up to the middle of the roll bar and it seems to work well.

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    Got to work on the motor/fuel tank/radiator mounts and got them all in place.
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    Welded up some aluminum 1.5" tube for the water pipes.
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    Bought the fuel pump and pre/post filters and mounted them in place on the bar under tank.
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    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

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