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Thread: Arc Force Question

  1. Default Arc Force Question

    Hi -
    I just got a Power Arc 130 and I have aquestion about the "dig" function. This machine is my first experiance with an inverter. From what I've read, dig is suppose to enable additional penetration and reduce sticking during close-arc welding. I do mostly open-root pipe welding and when I run into a situation where I need additional penetration I usually turn up the amperage to burn through a tight fit-up. What is the advantage of using dig vs turning up the heat to accomplish this? Is it to get the penetration without heating up the work piece? I ran a few stringers on flat plate with the dig turned up and it resulted in a mounded, cold looking, high spatter bead. It seems that the machine welds best with the dig turned all the way down. Am I missing something? I would appreciate any input. Thanks.

    BTW- I love the PA 130. It really is a nice machine for a great price.

  2. #2

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    We do not have a 130 nor does the small unit have dig control.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    We do not have a 130 nor does the small unit have dig control.
    didn't you just order the 300; i remember because you got it wrong that time too. p30 i think you referred to it as. now you have a 130. maybe you could take a moment to look at the machine, maybe a picture, so that we would all be on board with what machine you are actually on.

  4. #4

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    He's got the PowerARC 300... We all make mistakes.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	9089 Arc force from the manual>Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	9090 Source: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/do...ST-160-200.pdf
    Last edited by zoama; 01-07-2013 at 01:00 AM.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoama585 View Post
    He's got the PowerARC 300... We all make mistakes.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    that's true and i make plenty; he ordered the unit on new years day, a P30; we are now talking about a P130; but i think what he's really talking about is this.

    Hi- I've purchased a PA140 and am having a hard time welding with 1/8 6011 rod. I've tried all heats from 60-140A. The arc seems very unstable. I find that the only way to kep an arc going is to...

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by fdcmiami View Post
    that's true and i make plenty; he ordered the unit on new years day, a P30; we are now talking about a P130; but i think what he's really talking about is this.

    Hi- I've purchased a PA140 and am having a hard time welding with 1/8 6011 rod. I've tried all heats from 60-140A. The arc seems very unstable. I find that the only way to kep an arc going is to...
    The 140 doesn't have adjustable arc force, only the 300 does.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  7. Default

    I'm Sorry about the typo. I meant PA300.

  8. #8

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    Since that is clarified...Pushing in, will boost the heat for you. A high spatter bead? What type of electrode are you running? Size? Amps? Likely if you are getting a high spatter bead, you are holding too long of an arc gap. Turn the heat down, keep a tight arc, and turn the arc force up (in general)

  9. Default

    As a noob to welding, can you explain the difference between arc force and just turning up the machine? Is the heat applied differently or at different times? I'm just a bit confused on it. Thanks.
    Poewr I-Mig 205P
    Powertig 185

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent4573 View Post
    As a noob to welding, can you explain the difference between arc force and just turning up the machine? Is the heat applied differently or at different times? I'm just a bit confused on it. Thanks.
    http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...0&d=1357523932
    Last edited by zoama; 01-07-2013 at 08:29 PM.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  11. Default

    Hi Mark- I was running Lincoln ...1/8" 6010 at 85 amps with a tight arc on 1/8" plate steel. The conditions were identical with the exception of the arc force. The machine seems to run really nice with the arc force turned down, but seems to spatter the puddle when the arc force is turned up high. I was running at the two ends of the dial to try to figure out the effect. . I must be spraying the puddle out with the arc force turned up too much. . I guess its something that I will have to experiment with.

    On another note....I really like the machine! I love the portability and the feel of it. The company I work for is still sending out the big old transformers. (They're alot of fun to drag around). I'm trying to get them to switch over to these inverters. I think they will when they get a chance to check out this machine.

    Thank you in advance on any tips you can give me on this machine.

  12. #12
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    Default

    Inverters do require slightly different techniques, especially with cellulose fluxed rods.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  13. #13

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    Turn up the arc force on the 7018 only as much as you need it. It will pop and spit with you if you have too much. Turn it up then back down till it disappears. On 6010, you can crank it up some. Probably around 3 is all you need with 7018.

  14. Default

    Thank you, I'll try that.

  15. #15
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    Default

    I have a question about Everlast's implementation of arc force. Does the control adjust the amount of voltage drop before the current increases, the amount of current increase or both? Are there any published curves or graphs of the function? And how about the adaptive arc force used on some models? Just curious.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  16. #16
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    I'm wondering about the auto arc force on the other model PowerArcs. I'm assuming as you get closer to the work piece arc force increases the voltage? The arc becomes a little more fierce. Quite a bit more for me. This is the part that confuses me though. Since welding with inverters you need to hold a tighter arc, wouldn't that have the affect of having arc force initiated all the time?

    When I use 6011s, I had to push the rod in a lot, like trying to bury it,to keep up with the heat. This was because the arc was so fierce at times and would just burn up my rod. And of course that'll just keep kicking the arc force in and feed the vicious cycle. Many times the rod would catch on fire and I'd have to stop to put it out. Wasn't shorting the rod or anything just from normal welding. I'm wondering if the auto arc force feature is essential or if there's a way to turn it off.
    PowerArc 140ST
    Victor VPT-100FC

  17. #17

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    Once the voltage drops below about 20 V (approximately) due to a short arc length, the arc force initiates and boosts the amps in relation to the amp setting of the machine. Burying the rod would actually increase the heat. But if you are trying to push in to cool the weld off, then you are welding too hot. YOU DO weld with the arc force activated a lot on an inverter. IF you are having a hard time with the arc force, then it is technique, or the amp setting you are using, because we have lots of guys with these that enjoy them without any problem. I've used them a lot as well. What were your settings and rod brand and size of the 6011? Are you stepping the rod or weaving?

    Without arc force on a stick welder, you'll find out why they call it "stick" welding.
    Last edited by performance; 01-08-2013 at 08:22 PM.

  18. #18
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    Question Sorry for the hijack.. it's welding related tho!

    That's good to know. I wasn't really trying to find an off switch so to speak. But just wondered what it'll be like to have an inverter without arc force. Guess it would likely stick much more as you're saying. No problem, it is indeed my technique I know. There's still a lot of feeling around to get it just right.

    Here's the rundown again, I'll keep it short cus I posted about it before elsewhere. I was using Lincoln fleetweld E 6011 3/32" at 85 amps on DCEP. The weird thing is it wasn't predictable. Sometime that's just perfect and other times I'd be blowing holes in 1/8" square tubing I was welding. Just a straight drag at about 70* (held at 45* to each surface of the fillet) and I'd be blowing the puddle through the tube. Tried it with the hobart 6011 3/32" also, same thing. Other times it'd weld perfect! Hard to learn when you don't know what you're doing wrong. I need an expert next to me to coach my technique. That way at least I know it's not the machine. It'll take some doing but I'll try to post a video sometime.

    Oh and tried whipping it but got a lot of slag inclusions and still the same. Oh well. Any tips besides the 3 Ps?
    PowerArc 140ST
    Victor VPT-100FC

  19. #19
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    Your arc length was probably hovering right around the arc force voltage point. Turn down the heat a little then you can move in just a little closer. That way you can move in and out of the arc force to modulate the heat. It's a little backwards from a transformer welder, but it doesn't take long to get the knack of it. You actually get a lot of control. I would say about as much as from a good engine driven welder, just different. 70° is about as much rod angle as you want. Try it a little straighter to keep from blowing the puddle away too much.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  20. #20
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    Alright, I'll have another go at it. Today maybe. The 85 amps was what got me the best results so far. I started at 50 and worked my way up. The hobart 6011s 3/32" ran well hotter, at around 95amps. I'll dial it down some more and see. People have also be telling me that this unit may not be made to run for 5 hours (or more) of straight welding. Any truth to that?
    PowerArc 140ST
    Victor VPT-100FC

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