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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
    onlinemetals.com has small lengths of 4140 and 8620 for good prices.

    Weldmetal machining is always a crap shoot as far as hardness if the part isn't annealed after welding. So much depends on how much heat went in, for how long and how it was cooled. I wouldn't even think about machining weldmetal without carbide or ceramic tooling. Cobalt just doesn't cut it. FWIW I have often clamped a die grinder to the compound to use as a poor man's toolpost grinder.

    You could TIG it up with 4130 rod. That would require a preheat, weld, anneal, machine, then heat treat. Seems like a lot of work over just using the right material. Time is money, too.
    Ok, that may work... looks like 4140 would put me out around $50, factor in the time savings and it'd be about even. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than the tool steel I originally priced. I do have some good quality carbide inserts, it'll be a bit tricky for some spots, I was hoping to use cobalt with a profile ground to make it a bit easier on some of the complex curves. I eliminated the punch aspect, so that makes it easier, rather I'll drill as a pilot for the dies.

    Been lucky so far, haven't had an issue turning weld metal. Good setup, nice sharp tooling, proper feed and speed, etc.

    A small aspect of this was the facing, I'm trying to get myself dialed back in on all the processes. Knocked out some mitered AL this weekend, bear of an extrusion, 1/16 sections leading into 1/16 webs, another gap, then a 3/8 thick section mating to 1/16... Wish I took pictures. Was quite satisfied with the end result and the shop owner, whose display case door it was is ecstatic. I'm nice and happy on steel again and fresh Al, cast is going to take some more playing. I think I got the 6011 figured out, you were right, way different with an inverter. Amazing how much I retained over 14 years, also amazing how much I forgot

    This also applies to some other odd shaped pieces that may come up, I'll have to evaluate those on a one on one basis as to what alloy and process.
    Trip Bauer
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  2. #2

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    Make sure the 4140 is Quenched and Tempered. Otherwise, it won't be much better than other steels if it is in annealed condition.
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  3. #3
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    Carbon steels are typically have higher yield strength than 300 series stainless steels and will hold up much better for tooling applications. 400 series stainless is much harder with higher yield strength but not much benefit over many available carbon steel materials.
    Are you worried about wear or worried about the die deforming?

    Metals have the same material properties in compression and tensile loads as for yielding (the pressure the material will plastically deform or if you are not familiar with this terminology, this is where material starts to permeate deform). If you do not want the material to deform you need to make sure your yield strength is high enough for the application.

    If you are looking for surface wear you can use Stellite hard facing material to hard face the tool.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVA View Post
    Carbon steels are typically have higher yield strength than 300 series stainless steels and will hold up much better for tooling applications. 400 series stainless is much harder with higher yield strength but not much benefit over many available carbon steel materials.
    Are you worried about wear or worried about the die deforming?

    Metals have the same material properties in compression and tensile loads as for yielding (the pressure the material will plastically deform or if you are not familiar with this terminology, this is where material starts to permeate deform). If you do not want the material to deform you need to make sure your yield strength is high enough for the application.

    If you are looking for surface wear you can use Stellite hard facing material to hard face the tool.
    Worried about the dies deforming over repeated use, not wear so much. These will be used almost exclusively on stainless sheet in 12-16 ga range, though not sure which alloy yet. This initial set will be two sizes, but I have several things that will be made and require similar processes in various shapes (if all goes according to plan) in the near future.
    Trip Bauer
    Former USN HT
    Everlast 200DX New Model
    Hobart Handler 125 MIG
    Van Norman #12
    Atlas 12" engine lathe
    '98 RoadKing - 84 Ironhead - 59 Ironhead

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip59 View Post
    Worried about the dies deforming over repeated use, not wear so much. These will be used almost exclusively on stainless sheet in 12-16 ga range, though not sure which alloy yet. This initial set will be two sizes, but I have several things that will be made and require similar processes in various shapes (if all goes according to plan) in the near future.
    Most sheet stainless is very soft, with a yield strength of about 30000 psi and a ultimate strength of 70000 psi. If you are just dimpling the material, I would go with the hardest material that you can reasonably machine and afford.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip59 View Post
    I think I got the 6011 figured out, you were right, way different with an inverter. Amazing how much I retained over 14 years, also amazing how much I forgot
    The 6011 finally "clicked" for me, too. I think I was fighting myself or something because now it seems much easier than a transformer box.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

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