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Thread: New 250P problems

  1. Default Catamaran Awning 1,300 of tubing

    1.25 x 1/8 aluminum, everything was tig welded with my new 256 @ 240A and I’m starting to wonder where the duty cycle is I cant seem to find it LOL... really never hit it, all I ever did was wait on the duty cycle on my 300lb Lincoln precision tig 225 the old fat girl just sits in the corner these days just watching the the little green machine work...
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  2. #2

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    Nice work. What are the dimensions and weight of this awning and how big is the boat ?
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  3. #3

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    I'm going to guess a tick over 800lbs finished weight, depending on how much scrap was made with the cuts.

    Were you really using 240 amps to weld this or was the machine just set on 240A?
    Pedal or torch switch?
    Everlast 200DX
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    Shoptask 3-in-1 (not currently in my garage, but I own it...)

    Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
    4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.35mph 1/4 mile

  4. Default

    240A maxed out start tapering off the amps right at the end, I did all the welding at night when it was cool. its around 700lbs of tubing but is built in 2 pieces its split in the center. catamaran is 50ft long 30ft wide, I did the handrail on it to. I always used a pedal until I picked up this rotary now I never use a pedal
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    ...its around 700lbs of tubing...
    Plus how many pounds of filler rod

    Thanks for showing just what the 256 can really do. I have been undecided between the 250EX and the 256, and seeing things like this really helps.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  6. Default

    10lbs+ 3/32 4043, 1lb 1/8

  7. Default

    yea the only hold up is the amperage limitations of a 1/8 size tungsten

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    yea the only hold up is the amperage limitations of a 1/8 size tungsten
    Have you tried 2% lanthanated ?
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  9. Default

    I read somewhere 1%zirconaited holds up best on hi amperge AC so I ordered a 10 pack but I will try out the lanthanated thanks

  10. #10

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    I will put it this way. Though the 256 is a capable machine, it is not designed for this kind of continuous production work. Long term use like this will demonstrate why eventually. 35% duty cycle. Just because you didn't hit the thermal switch does not mean you did not push past the duty cycle once in a while if you were welding at night. It's a thermal switch on the heat sink. But the transistors need a rest once in a while even if the heat doesn't trigger the thermal cutout. You may have an exceptional unit there, but we are telling you that the 256 has its limitations...IF you plan to do something like this regularly (or ever) the 250EX is the best and preferred choice.

    Zirconiated is for transformer welders mostly. It does not enjoy an advantage with inverter welders on AC that I am aware of.

  11. Default

    Well how do I know how much is to much and when to let it rest? The air coming out of the vents never got warm. It will be some time before I can get a 250 as I already have 2 tig machines, I used to hit the thermal cut out on my precision tig 225 all the time and got an idea of where it was after awhile, I could also feel the air temp and heat of the machine itself, there is no indication of where my limit is on the everlast. I weld at home as a full time job so now you have me concerned about this
    Last edited by balleman3; 10-22-2012 at 12:29 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    Well how do I know how much is to much and when to let it rest?
    3.5 minutes on, 6.5 off in 10 minute blocks, depending on output power.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  13. #13

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    I'm still amazed that you were welding with 240A for that many welds. Must be able to move really quickly with that much current.

    I don;t think I have ever heard of any duty rated machine that doesn't shut off or throw some sort of thermal limit indication causing an issue, especially if the air is not even warm. If that is the case, it is pretty shady "engineering".

    If the weld current was tapered down, it very well could be that 35% @ 250A wasn't exceeded since the welds are all pretty short.
    Everlast 200DX
    Everlast PT185
    Shoptask 3-in-1 (not currently in my garage, but I own it...)

    Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
    4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.35mph 1/4 mile

  14. #14

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    Most of the time it will, and perhaps, conditions were just right when he was using it. But true duty cycle is figured at 40 degrees Celsius. And heat dissapation rates are affected by the temperature, and humidity. But the heat must transfer from the IGBT to the aluminum. The heat transfers out of the aluminum faster than it does from the igbt, so theoretically, the igbt and other components could still be hotter than it should and the exact position of the heat detector may stay cooler, since it is away from the other end somewhat. At this point I am postulating why the thermal would not trip. But when it comes to inverters, constantly running a unit against its duty cycle is not recommended because of the cumulative damage/wear done to the electronics. A transformer can be run up to the duty cycle, and other than melting out some solder, little is there that can break...so the effect is not as bad.

  15. Default

    yea as soon as it started to puddle i was on the move fast and I’m used to tiging as fast as the power I have on tap will let me, done a lot of aluminum in the past. sometimes after running for awhile it seemed like the amperage would start to drop off on its own toward the end of the weld I thought it was my imagination but now I think I was overdoing it, I just figured it would cut itself off if I hit the duty cycle like my transformer unit. I only welded one flat at a time so most of the amperage was expended on getting thing up to temp the air temp was in the 60's and machine was outside
    on a side note
    is my 250p supposed to have a - symbol in front of the amperage display the lcd shows -250 is that correct? could the plug be wired wrong, It is not welding good at all, like the polarity is wrong, same with the spoolgun
    Last edited by balleman3; 10-22-2012 at 02:21 AM.

  16. #16
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    Is there a possibility that the duty cycle heat sensor is faulty?
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    is my 250p supposed to have a - symbol in front of the amperage display the lcd shows -250 is that correct?
    Mine does the same.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    yea as soon as it started to puddle i was on the move fast and I’m used to tiging as fast as the power I have on tap will let me, done a lot of aluminum in the past. sometimes after running for awhile it seemed like the amperage would start to drop off on its own toward the end of the weld I thought it was my imagination but now I think I was overdoing it, I just figured it would cut itself off if I hit the duty cycle like my transformer unit. I only welded one flat at a time so most of the amperage was expended on getting thing up to temp the air temp was in the 60's and machine was outside
    on a side note
    is my 250p supposed to have a - symbol in front of the amperage display the lcd shows -250 is that correct? could the plug be wired wrong, It is not welding good at all, like the polarity is wrong, same with the spoolgun
    No that shows it is reading relative wire speed. It will change to amps once it starts to weld.

    Are you using pulse? Don't until you know how to set up the MIG without it.
    What wire diameter are you using? Do you have the work clamp in the negative, or rather, work? Which groove are you using on the drive roll? What wire type, gas type, and gas flow rate are you using?

  19. Default

    clamp in (work) - pulse seems to help on flat surfaces but no not using it now trying to get it to weld proper without first. tried

    Steel %75ar-%25co2 .035 1/8-1/2 in thickness all kinds of combinations of V and amperage always starting with the recommended settings and slowly moved around from there.

    Aluminum %100 ar spoolgun .8mm wire .090-1/4 in thickness all kinds of settings and thicknesses always starting with recommended, same result piles up on the surface or jumps to spray arc and melts to a ball 1/4 away from work and flows with gravity from there only looks good on flat steel cant really put it where you want it
    I have worked as a mig welder in the past so I have experience adjusting mig machines, also used to build aluminum awnings for another company using a spool gun everyday
    I still have to put the tie bar in for the awning caves I really dont want to have to tig weld the 125ft of 3/4 by .090 aluminum square tubing thats what I bought the mig for
    is there any way to adjust the wire speed without messing with the amps?

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    Last edited by balleman3; 10-22-2012 at 03:08 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    clamp in (work) - pulse seems to help on flat surfaces but no not using it now trying to get it to weld proper without first. tried

    Steel %75ar-%25co2 .035 1/8-1/2 in thickness all kinds of combinations of V and amperage always starting with the recommended settings and slowly moved around from there.

    Aluminum %100 ar spoolgun .8mm wire .090-1/4 in thickness all kinds of settings and thicknesses always starting with recommended, same result piles up on the surface or jumps to spray arc and melts to a ball 1/4 away from work and flows with gravity from there only looks good on flat steel cant really put it where you want it
    I have worked as a mig welder in the past so I have experience adjusting mig machines, also used to build aluminum awnings for another company using a spool gun everyday
    I still have to put the tie bar in for the awning caves I really dont want to have to tig weld the 125ft of 3/4 by .090 aluminum square tubing thats what I bought the mig for
    is there any way to adjust the wire speed without messing with the amps?
    It almost looks like you might be sucking air into the gas line from somewhere. Maybe do a through check for leaks, end to end, especially inside the MIG gun, if you haven't already.
    MIG is CV, all the machine sets is voltage, amps are drawn based on wire speed and arc length, it will deliver whatever is required to maintain the voltage you set, until it maxes out.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

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