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Thread: New 250P problems

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    clamp in (work) - pulse seems to help on flat surfaces but no not using it now trying to get it to weld proper without first. tried

    Steel %75ar-%25co2 .035 1/8-1/2 in thickness all kinds of combinations of V and amperage always starting with the recommended settings and slowly moved around from there.

    Aluminum %100 ar spoolgun .8mm wire .090-1/4 in thickness all kinds of settings and thicknesses always starting with recommended, same result piles up on the surface or jumps to spray arc and melts to a ball 1/4 away from work and flows with gravity from there only looks good on flat steel cant really put it where you want it
    I have worked as a mig welder in the past so I have experience adjusting mig machines, also used to build aluminum awnings for another company using a spool gun everyday
    I still have to put the tie bar in for the awning caves I really dont want to have to tig weld the 125ft of 3/4 by .090 aluminum square tubing thats what I bought the mig for
    is there any way to adjust the wire speed without messing with the amps?

    Attachment 8269Attachment 8270Attachment 8271
    I don't mean to sound harsh, but it sounds as if you need some instruction in MIG, because wire speed and amps is the same thing...you cannot divorce the two EVER...not in true mig. Where is your arc force set? What settings are you using? Again, which drive roll are you using for the steel? And how are you controlling wire speed on your spool gun?

    AND Pulse in MIG is designed for spray.

  2. #22

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    Also what I see is a shielding gas problem. What is your gas flow rate?

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    Tried arc force in all positions but usually start on 50%. gas flow rate 25cfm 75%-25%co2 on steel with the mig gun, same with argon on the spool gun. I am using the .8 drive rollers that cam in the machine for .035 wire. sorry about the confusion on CC and CV I was just used to adjusting the wire speed at spool gun it has been a few years since I worked as a mig welder, had a brain fart but I never had a problem before adjusting a mig machine just went with the recommended settings and adjusted from there I have a lot of time on a mig and can lay a good bead in all positions but something is definitely way off here

    same result globular transfer piles up on the surface with no penetration or jumps to spray arc and melts to a ball 1/4 away from work with no control
    Last edited by balleman3; 10-22-2012 at 05:30 AM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    25cfm 75%-25%co2 on steel with the mig gun,100% same with argon on the spool gun. I am using the .8 drive rollers that cam in the machine. sorry about the confusion on CC and CV I was just used to adjusting the wire speed at spool gun it has been a few years since I worked as a mig welder but I never had a problem before adjusting a mig machine just went with the recommended settings and adjusted from there I have a lot of time on a mig and can lay a good bead in all positions but something is definitely way off here
    Are you sure you are using the .8 mm and not the larger groove? Also if you are using our regulators, they are in lpm, not cfh. You are blowing out about 50 cfh if you are using our numbers as a guide.

    The spool gun adjusts on the panel. With .030 wire, try about 17.5-18 volts then run wire speed up to about 200-220....with standard steel and the regular gun.

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    I’m using my reg at 25 cubic foot per hour
    according to my chart the settings you are recommending for .030 are good for short circuit transfer on 16GA steel. I’m sure I have tried it already but I will go try that particular setting again on some 1/8 steel, I move half a volt at a time on whatever wire speed setting I have set at the moment It seems like something else is the problem here. my ground clamp should be plugged into (work piece) correct
    I also have to cycle the power on the machine a lot because the arc doesn’t start is this normal

    globular transfer piles up on the surface with no penetration or jumps to spray arc and melts to a ball 1/4 away from work with no control same with spoolgun aluminum
    Last edited by balleman3; 10-22-2012 at 06:11 AM.

  6. Default New 250P problems

    my new 250P actually I think it was a demo model looks well used more than just testing but I wasn’t to concerned about that. I thought I had a gas flow problem but now I think I have eliminated that it is even worse with the spool gun and straight argon when I turn the gas up to 50CFH hold the trigger down and plug off the gas at the spool gun it comes squealing out around my finger and no where else inside the machine or any connections seem to be leaking under pressure, I know my argon is good I can make beautiful tig welds with it. >>Arc force, wire speed and CFH<<< make no difference in the terrible black soot with the spool gun it just gets worse with higher gas flow rates, 25CFH is what I ran on the one pic, all aluminum is new, cleaned, brushed and wiped with alcohol, the aluminum pic is 3/4 by 1/16. steel welds are terrible to regardless of settings 75%-25%co2. please don’t ask what the arc force, wire speed, or voltage was set on I tried all settings independent of one another and this is as good as it gets. the only thing It will do any good at is very high voltage pulse spray arc on very flat steel.
    I also have to cycle the power on the machine constantly because the arc dose not start when the wire makes contact, Its the same ground cable-clamp I use on my tig with no problems
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    Last edited by balleman3; 10-22-2012 at 08:30 AM.

  7. #27
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    Can you try it with the gas down around 12-15 CFH. It really looks like there is some kind of shielding problem. Granted you may also have an electrical fault, but black soot only happens when there is oxygen present around the weld. Even if the machine is putting out some crazy wave form that will never weld, you shouldn't be getting the soot. That just isn't caused by the electrical properties of the arc. The other symptoms may very well be a problem with the machine, but you need to isolate things one step at a time. If you have a volt meter you might want to double check the machine polarity. Make sure the torch is really positive, forget what the labels say and measure it. At the same time you can verify that the voltage matches the display. Is the wirefeed displayed about right? Hit the button for 10 seconds, without welding, and measure how much wire comes out. Someone from tech support can walk you through opening it up and checking the main connections inside the machine, if you want. Does it act like the power is weak or cutting in and out? There just really isn't all that much happening in a MIG power source. It's basically plain old DC. As long as the voltage and polarity are correct it should weld. If you can post a video, it might help, even if it's just the sound.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by balleman3 View Post
    I’m using my reg at 25 cubic foot per hour
    according to my chart the settings you are recommending for .030 are good for short circuit transfer on 16GA steel. I’m sure I have tried it already but I will go try that particular setting again on some 1/8 steel, I move half a volt at a time on whatever wire speed setting I have set at the moment It seems like something else is the problem here. my ground clamp should be plugged into (work piece) correct
    I also have to cycle the power on the machine a lot because the arc doesn’t start is this normal

    globular transfer piles up on the surface with no penetration or jumps to spray arc and melts to a ball 1/4 away from work with no control same with spoolgun aluminum
    There are still some things that you have not answered. Most important being what is your arc force setting? This is important to how the arc lays out and the penetration received. Typically about 75-85% works for me, but everyone's different.

    1) FORGET the charts. An experienced welder should set the welder by his eyes and ears not some chart. The setting I gave you is for steel, and is good place to start albeit a little low. The welding you are doing looks like the voltage is too high anyway.
    2) The wire speed is not in inches per minute...It's in a rough ball park, but it is a relative wire speed. To get actual wire feed speed, you need to press the trigger and spool off wire for 10 seconds, then measure it and multiply by 6.
    3) When you use a spool gun for aluminum, you have to go to the next size up contact tip or buy a special aluminum tip or the wire will try to seize.
    4) Aluminum Spool gun welding IS spray transfer. It does not work anyother way. Aluminum sprays at much lower voltage settings, but with higher wire feed/amp settings than steel.
    5) Again, the purpose of single pulse mig is to use it in spray transfer mode...but don't use it until you get the welder set.
    6) Instead of moving voltage to meet wire feed speed, you should be moving wire feed speed to match voltage. This is another issue. You'll never get the unit adjusted doing it this way.
    7) The arc is probably not starting because you are putting the wire in contact with the metal when you squeeze the trigger. This will happen and cause an over current condition.
    8) Set your burnback so the ball comes about 1/4" back to the electrode after welding.
    Last edited by performance; 10-22-2012 at 01:07 PM.

  9. #29

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    Posting multiple places will not help this, and only dilute the information.
    As I told you on the other thread, IF you are making contact with the metal with the wire or the cup when you start the arc, you will create an overcurrent and shut down the welder.

  10. Default

    Run the lower gas rate per Rambozo, and Change the direction you are welding. Use Push rather than Pull technique. The gun should be aimed to flow gas over the area you are about to weld, not the area you just welded. You will still get some soot with AL mig, along the sides beyond the bead, it's part of the process, it is not clean like TIG, but pushing the gun will clean up your welding about 90%+.

    Also,for Every start, cut the wire back to the tip, this does two things. First it provides a nice sharp edge to begin the arc, but more importantly, it gives a moment of pre-flow, which is needed to create an environment that can support the arc. Some of your examples show that there was no shielding when the arc was initiated.

    Don't mess with pulse yet, soon maybe, but get the hang of it in short-circuit transfer mode. Pulse mig is really for one purpose, to provide a faster freeze for out of position AL Spray transfer mode. In that mode you are running really hot, big puddle, and without pulse, religated to flat position welding.

    Change direction, Have Fun, and take more pictures!

    Jim
    Last edited by JimMinKent; 10-22-2012 at 01:17 PM.

  11. #31

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    Since this issue was all over the place, I have merged the two primary threads...some info doesn't match...but oh well. That's why we encourage keeping threads pure or at least continuing the course of topic in one place rather than playing hopskotch with the thread information.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimMinKent View Post
    Run the lower gas rate per Rambozo, and Change the direction you are welding. Use Push rather than Pull technique. The gun should be aimed to flow gas over the area you are about to weld, not the area you just welded. You will still get some soot with AL mig, along the sides beyond the bead, it's part of the process, it is not clean like TIG, but pushing the gun will clean up your welding about 90%+.

    Also,for Every start, cut the wire back to the tip, this does two things. First it provides a nice sharp edge to begin the arc, but more importantly, it gives a moment of pre-flow, which is needed to create an environment that can support the arc. Some of your examples show that there was no shielding when the arc was initiated.

    Don't mess with pulse yet
    Change direction, Have Fun, and take more pictures!

    Jim
    Ditto on what Jim pretty much said. And lower that gas rate for sure. Are you welding outside? Is that why you have it so high? Black is normally oxygen getting in there. Why I ask, or you have it so high it is pulling it into the flow.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  13. #33

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    I would add that asking for these parameters IS important. I cannot tell you how many times people have said "I have tried them all" and still was operator error. Trying them all does not answer our questions about the settings. Unless you have physically matched every possible combination of settings, which is in the millions or more you have not tried them all. Arc force is a major player in spatter control. But these welds are too violent, which says voltage is too high or wire speed is. Likely it is too much voltage at this point. As I said, adjust voltage first, then bring your wire speed to it. If you have an extra hand, have someone adjust the wire speed from low to high while you are welding to dial it in. I agree with the gas flow and gun position thing.

    For an example of what these units can do, here is a picture of the 160/200 on 1/4" metal AT 16.5-17 volts with about 190- 200 wire speed with .030 wire.
    Attachment 8289Attachment 8290

    You said you had experience MIG welding before. It might be helpful to know what exactly you mig welded, what machine(s) you have used, and how long you welded with it(them). I've welded with a pretty broad range of MIGs, so I probably can give you something helpful, or put my finger on something that is not transferring knowledge wise over to this welder.

    From the looks of the aluminum mig, it does look like ar/co2 mix instead of pure ar. But you said it is not I believe, so, the next issue would be the brown/black haze. That is from improper shielding no matter how you look at it. And, typically MIG aluminum does have a lot more dirty appearance to it. It's not for a tig weld look, even with single pulse.
    Last edited by performance; 10-22-2012 at 04:03 PM.

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    thanks for all the input, sorry I was not clearer from the start that was why I started a new post, I have the cover off and I’m calling tech support now.

  15. #35

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    I don't think you need the cover off the machine, I think it's an issue with setup.

    Re-read Mark's last post. Read what Jim and Rambozo wrote. Everyone is sort of repeating the same thing.

    I would use 18-19 volts on 1/4" myself, but again, you will get in the ball park. No two people weld the same. The crazy CFH is one issue. It is probably not the machine... You might have a bad tank of gas too.

    I will also ask again, you are welding inside and no fans or breeze?
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

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    well I went on a telephone welding trip with mark the other day and the over current light would not stop tripping whenever the wire speed started getting up to where he wanted, I still have not heard back on the issue and am really in need of a mig unit that works as I have to pay the bills with my machines

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    In other news the I found the duty cycle on the 256P I guess the thermal switch is bad or something, It starts spraying the end of the tungsten off fairly regular now, I think It is damaged permanently, I never got any warning lights at all, It is ok after about 15 min of sitting but I cant weld very much at a time anymore, really slow going. Its like a different welder. Same gas, reg, tungsten, aluminum and settings as the rest of the 1,300ft I already finished. It looks like I might be in the market for some new blue machines to bad I already spent four grand

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  18. #38

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    I am waiting to here back from the factory on the MIG. As I said earlier, about the 256, it wasn't meant for production welding. 3.5 minutes of welding at the amperage you gave, then 7.5 minutes off...that's what the machine is rated for. Give me a call so we can get things in the works anyway to send back.

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