CO2 VS Argon/CO2 mix while ferrous steel

[X83]

I just purchased a CO2 MAG welder that has three different transfer modes and can't wait to try it out using a 100% mixture. I image at higher flow rates the regulators would freeze up so using an electrically heated one would be a good option.

[ShaneJackson]

If you don't mind driving 35 miles, try weldor's supply house. I paid $295 for a filled 390 cu ft of 75/25 with a 99 year lease and $60 for refills. They even throw in free renewal when the lease is up. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&su...d=0CI0BEPwSMAA

Just got back from Weldor, $59 for a 336 of argon and $5 a month rental. I could have gotten a 99 year lease for $295 (with a full bottle). Thanks zoama585 for the tip.

Now if I could just win that contest and get me a 210ext, 250ex, or a 200dx......

One thing I was wanting to look into was getting the correct gear to fill a small bottle from that big tank. That way I could take a 20cf or 40cf with me if I needed to be mobile.

[zoama]

Just got back from Weldor, $59 for a 336 of argon and $5 a month rental. I could have gotten a 99 year lease for $295 (with a full bottle). Thanks zoama585 for the tip.

Now if I could just win that contest and get me a 210ext, 250ex, or a 200dx......

One thing I was wanting to look into was getting the correct gear to fill a small bottle from that big tank. That way I could take a 20cf or 40cf with me if I needed to be mobile.

They have a good price on #2 copper lead as well. I think I paid 70 cent per foot for 50 feet but they guy gave me about 60 feet because it was the end of the roll.

[Johnson]

I have used both and for short cicuit trasfer I think it is 90% as good if not almost the same. Once you get to globular and spray transer 22 volts and up it starts having a spattery arc and argon fixes that. Here's some shots of a couple test plate I welder yesterday in class....both 100% CO2

[Johnson]

Geeez I need to learn to type! Anyway here is a Vertical down test I did today using 100% CO2. ALso just to not confuse anyone from my last post. You can't to spray x-fer with 100% co2. You need a mix of at least 75% argon, but that is still to low. 80% is the min starting point most use for spray x-fer and 92% makes the arc more stable an you can use less voltage and amps getting same results. Only problem with spray is the deep penitration and big puddle weld deposit rate, but on thick stuff it really kicks but.

[Kempy]

Geeez I need to learn to type! Anyway here is a Vertical down test I did today using 100% CO2. ALso just to not confuse anyone from my last post. You can't to spray x-fer with 100% co2. You need a mix of at least 75% argon, but that is still to low. 80% is the min starting point most use for spray x-fer and 92% makes the arc more stable an you can use less voltage and amps getting same results. Only problem with spray is the deep penitration and big puddle weld deposit rate, but on thick stuff it really kicks but.

Spell Check would be nice on the forum I have to keep check with the wife if it is spelt right or not. reason (penitration spell check penetration)

Good welds with Co2.

[Rambozo]

Spell Check would be nice on the forum I have to keep check with the wife if it is spelt right or not. reason (penitration spell check penetration)

You can often enable spell check in the browser, either through a setting or plugin. Google Chrome is my favorite for this as it handles spell checking in almost any web form.

[performance]

A note about spray transfer. You actually need LESS than 20% CO2. A 75/25 mixture yields anything but satisfactory results with spray...too high of voltage requirement.

For the best test, you should do a vertical UP test since vertical downs are typically frowned upon unless you are "zipping" things together in a cheap trailer plant somewhere throwing together thin tubing...running it hot.

[zoama]

A note about spray transfer. You actually need LESS than 20% CO2. A 75/25 mixture yields anything but satisfactory results with spray...too high of voltage requirement.

For the best test, you should do a vertical UP test since vertical downs are typically frowned upon unless you are "zipping" things together in a cheap trailer plant somewhere throwing together thin tubing...running it hot.

Does spray transfer put more heat into the part ?

[agent4573]

What the hell is spray transfer?

[zoama]

What the hell is spray transfer?

[DaveO]

From the Esab website:
The basic mig process includes three distinctive process techniques: short circuiting metal transfer, globular transfer, and spray arc. These techniques describe the manner in which metal is transferred from the wire to the weld pool. In short circuiting metal transfer, also known as ”Short Arc”, ”Dip Transfer”, and ”Microwire”, metal transfer occurs when an electrical short circuit is established. This occurs as the molten metal at the end of the wire touches the molten weld pool. In spray arc welding, small molten drops of metal are detached from the tip of the wire and projected by electromagnetic forces towards the weld pool. Globular transfer occurs when the drops of metal are quite large and move toward the weld pool under the influence of gravity. Factors that determine the manner of metal transfer are the welding current, wire size, arc length (voltage), power supply characteristics, and shielding gas.

Esab's MIG handbook is here:
http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig1_3.htm
Lincoln and Miller have "Education" sections on their sites too.

[Rambozo]

What the hell is spray transfer?

Something you will never see with a Blue Point 110V MIG box

[performance]

Spray transfer is hot, and fast. Ordinary spray is for flat only. It's clean smooth and almost as quiet as DC tig. Out of position, it isn't pretty as the puddle is so hot it falls in globs and can't stay in place. The welders we sell with pulse are specifically designed for spray and use out of position because the pulse creates a dual transfer...but only one the spray transfer is supposed to transfer metal, and the arc only drops into the globular transfer range long enough to cool the puddle, but not transfer metal. Spray isn't designed for anything less than 1/8 inch and thicker. And I personally believe 1/8" is a little thin to make a long weld.

Here's some spray I've done in the past...and the next is a conventional short circuit.

[agent4573]

Something you will never see with a Blue Point 110V MIG box

I actually got rid of that last week. Looking to pick up an everlast machine in the next few weeks. Hoping i win something in the wintertime contest, but if not ill have to come up with some cash and buy one.

[youngnstudly]

I have used both and for short cicuit trasfer I think it is 90% as good if not almost the same. Once you get to globular and spray transer 22 volts and up it starts having a spattery arc and argon fixes that. Here's some shots of a couple test plate I welder yesterday in class....both 100% CO2

I really like the straight CO2 for thicker materials too (and don't notice much difference with the end result). At my previous employer's HVAC fab shop, we used CO2 strictly as a backup anytime we'd run out of the 75/25 mix. When welding thinner metals like 16 or 18ga. rooftop or grease duct, I always noticed an increased presence of dingleberries (splatter) around the weld that didn't seem to be there when I'd weld thicker materials (say 3/8" thick, for example). Regardless of the angle used, travel speed, machine settings (etc), the duct always required some quick clean up with a flap disc before spraying the galvanized coating on....But crank up the heat and all of the sudden the weld area was much cleaner.

[geezer]

Co2 welding who would have thunk it,,,maybe that's why they are called co2 welders in China,,anyhow,,,here is a good explanation on Co2 and gas mixes,,to sum it up mixed gases work better at low voltages and thinner metals increasing arc stability...check out this site for a more detailed explanation,,,http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm,,,I use the usual gas mix that everyone uses and I should probably go to straight c02 cause I don't weld that much sheet metal,,of course co2 requires a heated regulator and I don't have one of those either (yet)...

[youngnstudly]

Co2 welding who would have thunk it,,,maybe that's why they are called co2 welders in China,,anyhow,,,here is a good explanation on Co2 and gas mixes,,to sum it up mixed gases work better at low voltages and thinner metals increasing arc stability...check out this site for a more detailed explanation,,,http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm,,,I use the usual gas mix that everyone uses and I should probably go to straight c02 cause I don't weld that much sheet metal,,of course co2 requires a heated regulator and I don't have one of those either (yet)...

Link fixed: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm

I've never seen that website before. Thanks for posting it. Lots of good info!

[Kempy]

You can often enable spell check in the browser, either through a setting or plugin. Google Chrome is my favorite for this as it handles spell checking in almost any web form.

Well I found it, it was on but it is not as nice as in Microsoft Office it fixes the words as you typing it. But IE dose the job anyway you just have to tell it to check after you are finished typing.
Thanks Rambozo

[Rambozo]

Well I found it, it was on but it is not as nice as in Microsoft Office it fixes the words as you typing it. But IE dose the job anyway you just have to tell it to check after you are finished typing.
Thanks Rambozo

Of course the spell checker won't help for changing dose into does.