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Thread: Power I Mig 205 P qs ? (Size, aluminum, wire speed, flux wire, roll size, new model )

  1. Default Power I Mig 205 P qs ? (Size, aluminum, wire speed, flux wire, roll size, new model )

    First thing to note is that the specification link for this unit on its web page is broken. It brings up the 140 unit.

    Questions.

    1) How big is it ?

    2) Has anyone done some aluminum welding and wished they got the 250P instead ? I wish the 250P was small like the 205P ! Or, I wish the 205P was more powerful. Aluminum is the only thing that I think I might need more power for.

    3) How does one set the wire feed speed on the 205P ? The 250P has a wire feed speed dial.

    4) Does the pulse function help when welding flux core wire, ie gasless ? A lot of MIGs are terrible at welding the stuff. I don't have a particular need to weld with flux wire, it would just be handy to do so outside or on dirty metal, which I now do with stick, and not have to stop and change rods all the time. I'm tired of changing rods !

    5) Does the pulse function help with aluminum welding ?

    6) Can one use small rolls on the 205P ? Or only the big ones ?

    7) Any chance there is a new, updated 205P in the works ? I'd buy the 250P if it was a suitcase like the 205P

    Thanks !
    Last edited by someguy; 02-12-2012 at 07:38 AM.

  2. #2

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    I like the thoroughness of your questions. I asked a lot of those question in another post. I want an I-Mig 250p so bad.
    Everlast PowerTig 250EX
    Everlast PowerCool 300
    Everlast PowerPlasma 70
    Lincoln Powermig 215
    Magnum SG Spool Gun
    Don't jump on my Gomba

  3. Default

    Why do you want the 250p instead of the 205p ? Just curious and trying to learn.

    Does the cart part of the 250P come off ?

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    How do you like your PowerTIG 250EX ? I bought one but haven't used it yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy View Post
    First thing to note is that the specification link for this unit on its web page is broken. It brings up the 140 unit.
    I talked to Oleg about this unit. Here are his answers.

    Questions.

    1) How big is it ?
    We skipped this question.

    2) Has anyone done some aluminum welding and wished they got the 250P instead ? I wish the 250P was small like the 205P ! Or, I wish the 205P was more powerful. Aluminum is the only thing that I think I might need more power for.
    Oleg said the 205P would weld 1/4" to 3/8" in a single pass. I assume that means 3/8" aluminum would take full amps which would mean a 35% duty cycle.

    3) How does one set the wire feed speed on the 205P ? The 250P has a wire feed speed dial.
    The 205P sets wire speed automatically as you adjust the amps. I want to be able to adjust wire speed manually.

    4) Does the pulse function help when welding flux core wire, ie gasless ? A lot of MIGs are terrible at welding the stuff. I don't have a particular need to weld with flux wire, it would just be handy to do so outside or on dirty metal, which I now do with stick, and not have to stop and change rods all the time. I'm tired of changing rods !
    I didn't get a direct answer to this. The pulse function on a MIG works like the pulse function on a TIG. Its most suited to welding thin material where you need amps and volts to make an arc, yet you need to shut it down for a bit every cycle so that you don't burn through. I kind of doubt that would play a roll in burning flux core wire, but I've never tried it.

    5) Does the pulse function help with aluminum welding ?
    Thin stuff, yes.

    6) Can one use small rolls on the 205P ? Or only the big ones ?
    From the factory, no. But people have made adapters to do so. One other thing to note is that the 250P has a 4 roller wire feed system, whereas the 205P has a 2 roller system.

    7) Any chance there is a new, updated 205P in the works ? I'd buy the 250P if it was a suitcase like the 205P
    Not at this time.

    To summarize, this is what you get for the $300 extra between the 250P and the 205P.

    - 250A versus 200A at 35%
    - 200A versus 155A at 60%
    - 160A versus 110A at 100%
    - adjustable wire feed speed on the 250P versus auto on the 205P
    - 4 roller feed on the 260P versus 2 roller on the 205P
    - 105 pounds versus 50 pounds. Even if the cart componentry (4 wheels and shelf on the back) weigh 20 pounds, its still 85 pounds versus 50 pounds.
    - wheels and tank ready cart for the 250P versus needs a cart for the 205P.

    I am sensitive to duty cycle when I am stick welding, which means stopping to change rods and chip slag. I am buying a MIG welder so that I don't have to make those stops. And I want to run my amps on the high side to ensure good penetration when I am stick welding. Therefore I think I better pay attention to duty cycle more on a MIG than I would on a stick box.

    I think I am going to go with the 250P
    Last edited by someguy; 02-16-2012 at 09:08 PM.

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    For comparison, a Lincoln MIG Pak 180 sells for about $750. At 130A, it has a duty cycle of only 30%. Its rating on aluminum is about 3/16", which is half of the 205P. The Lincoln PowerMIG 180 is rated the same.

    A Millermatic 180 at 135A is rated at 30% duty cycle as well.

    Either Everlast is inflating its duty cycle specs or the 250P is pretty stout. Although the 205P lags the industry 180 rated machines in amps at 30% duty cycle.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...matic_180.html

    The 250P at 200A has a 60% duty cycle, just like the Millermatic 252 does. The 250P lists for $1500 on the website. The 252 sells for $2300 on eBay.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy View Post
    For comparison, a Lincoln MIG Pak 180 sells for about $750. At 130A, it has a duty cycle of only 30%. Its rating on aluminum is about 3/16", which is half of the 205P. The Lincoln PowerMIG 180 is rated the same.

    A Millermatic 180 at 135A is rated at 30% duty cycle as well.

    Either Everlast is inflating its duty cycle specs or the 250P is pretty stout. Although the 205P lags the industry 180 rated machines in amps at 30% duty cycle.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...matic_180.html

    The 250P at 200A has a 60% duty cycle, just like the Millermatic 252 does. The 250P lists for $1500 on the website. The 252 sells for $2300 on eBay.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php
    someguy

    please dont forget that Millermatic 252 has NO PULSE
    I think Miller units with PULSE start at over 3K
    Oleg Gladshteyn
    Phone: 650 588 8082 / 877 755 WELD
    Cell: 415 613 6664 ONLY IF YOU REALLY NEED IT
    Email: oleg@everlastwelders.com
    Website www.everlastgenerators.com

    www.linkedin.com/pub/oleg-gladshteyn/48/b08/875

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg View Post
    someguy

    please dont forget that Millermatic 252 has NO PULSE
    I think Miller units with PULSE start at over 3K
    And the I-Mig 250p can stick weld.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoama585 View Post
    And the I-Mig 250p can stick weld.
    Correct.. keep forgetting about that
    Oleg Gladshteyn
    Phone: 650 588 8082 / 877 755 WELD
    Cell: 415 613 6664 ONLY IF YOU REALLY NEED IT
    Email: oleg@everlastwelders.com
    Website www.everlastgenerators.com

    www.linkedin.com/pub/oleg-gladshteyn/48/b08/875

  10. #10

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    Go ahead and get the 250 you will be happy! I always say get what you need or what you think you may need in the future.
    By the time you put a 30lb spool of wire in a 205p I doubt you will be lugging that bad boy around!
    Lincoln Eagle Engine Drive
    Everlast MTS 250
    Everlast Power Tig 225lx
    HTP Mig 2400
    Everlast Power Plasma 60C --> Just need to finish my CNC Plasma Table!
    Miller Spectrum 375 Extreme Plasma cutter
    Victor cutting torch
    HF 20 Ton Shop Press
    HF 4x6 Band Saw
    HF Air Compressor
    Northern Tool Drill Press


    www.murphywelding.com

  11. #11

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    I have found the ultimate combo for me and I am sure many others, is an IMIG200 and IMIG250P.

    The 200 is flux core and used on the road with a 5500 watt generator, the 250P is roll-around the shop with argon and make it pretty. The 200P is pretty strong, but not a 205P or 250P. That said, there is a bigger cost this way.

    I just picked up a 205P to see if I can replace the 200 for portable and a little more power, maybe replace the 250P as well. It can be moved with a 10lbs roll, but not like the 200. The extra power is nice though. It is a good pick if on a budget or limited in space, and you want portable and power.

    And as said, for the shop, the 250P is great.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  12. #12

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    A little off topic, but still related:

    A lot of these machines have many types of controls (amp up time, pre flow, etc).

    I know welders who went to schools for this stuff know what they are for already, but Above Average Joes like me try those settings out and think to ourselves, "What difference did that make? I didn't notice anything."

    Does Everlast have a section on their website that says, "Here's where you'd use this setting and what exactly it does." ???

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jp2code View Post
    A little off topic, but still related:

    A lot of these machines have many types of controls (amp up time, pre flow, etc).

    I know welders who went to schools for this stuff know what they are for already, but Above Average Joes like me try those settings out and think to ourselves, "What difference did that make? I didn't notice anything."

    Does Everlast have a section on their website that says, "Here's where you'd use this setting and what exactly it does." ???
    You can pull the latest ITIG manuals for a description of the controls. Not sure, other than the obvious AC and things, if it gives a lot of detail. Best thing is pull our manual and google the functions name. Note, we call pulse duty cycle, pulse time ON to try to keep it simple.
    I will look to see what I can find as well.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by everlastsupport View Post
    You can pull the latest ITIG manuals for a description of the controls. Not sure, other than the obvious AC and things, if it gives a lot of detail. Best thing is pull our manual and google the functions name. Note, we call pulse duty cycle, pulse time ON to try to keep it simple.
    I will look to see what I can find as well.
    Thanks Mike. You guys are on top of stuff over here! A+

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy View Post
    I talked to Oleg about this unit. Here are his answers.

    We skipped this question.

    Oleg said the 205P would weld 1/4" to 3/8" in a single pass. I assume that means 3/8" aluminum would take full amps which would mean a 35% duty cycle.

    The 205P sets wire speed automatically as you adjust the amps. I want to be able to adjust wire speed manually.

    I didn't get a direct answer to this. The pulse function on a MIG works like the pulse function on a TIG. Its most suited to welding thin material where you need amps and volts to make an arc, yet you need to shut it down for a bit every cycle so that you don't burn through. I kind of doubt that would play a roll in burning flux core wire, but I've never tried it.

    Thin stuff, yes.

    From the factory, no. But people have made adapters to do so. One other thing to note is that the 250P has a 4 roller wire feed system, whereas the 205P has a 2 roller system.

    Not at this time.

    To summarize, this is what you get for the $300 extra between the 250P and the 205P.

    - 250A versus 200A at 35%
    - 200A versus 155A at 60%
    - 160A versus 110A at 100%
    - adjustable wire feed speed on the 250P versus auto on the 205P
    - 4 roller feed on the 260P versus 2 roller on the 205P
    - 105 pounds versus 50 pounds. Even if the cart componentry (4 wheels and shelf on the back) weigh 20 pounds, its still 85 pounds versus 50 pounds.
    - wheels and tank ready cart for the 250P versus needs a cart for the 205P.

    I am sensitive to duty cycle when I am stick welding, which means stopping to change rods and chip slag. I am buying a MIG welder so that I don't have to make those stops. And I want to run my amps on the high side to ensure good penetration when I am stick welding. Therefore I think I better pay attention to duty cycle more on a MIG than I would on a stick box.

    I think I am going to go with the 250P
    Someguy,

    A few comments to clarify:

    The 205P isn't enough power for welding steel with pulse correctly, at least not in spray mode as it should be. Aluminum, however takes less power to spray.
    The amp control is simply the wire speed control. It isn't "automatic". Amp/Wire feed are the same thing. Wire speed controls amps. They are directly tied together. Either term and way of looking at it is correct. Other welders on the market in the past and today use amps as the setting. It is just another way of looking at it. In other words: THERE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENCE>

    Pulse on a MIG does NOT work like Pulse on a TIG. In fact, there are two types of pulse on a MIG, single and double. Our migs are single pulse. That means a faster pulse speed. IF you are looking for a stack of dimes this is not that kind of pulse. The minimum pulse frequency is 20 hz, and that is enough to make a nice, close ripple, but not what some people are thinking. The pulse actually pulses voltage, and not amps(wire speed). Pulse on a MIG is SUPPOSED to be used for spray transfer process, and the pulse dip in volts, brings it back down into the globular transfer long enough to cool the weld, but not actually transfer any metal while in the globular voltage range. Some people try to use single pulse for short circuit mode , but it simply isn't designed for this, and cold fusion will likely result. Use of special blend gas of 90/10, or pure argon (for aluminum) is required.

    Duty cycle at 35% is rarely achieved especially welding at 200 amps (max wire speed).

    MIG pulse is NOT for the beginner, especially for a manually set pulse MIG. It is an advanced process that takes every resource of a trained, and skilled MIG welder to understand and recognize a properly set pulse MIG. It is not like setting a tig, to suit your taste. There are a number of variables that have to be set just right to achieve a proper pulse weld. That is why most, if not all pulse migs on the market these days are synergic, and pre programmed. These units are NOT! Pulse time on, and pulse differential (pulse voltages) and frequency each must be in correct sync or you will have a hard time setting it. IT is something that is not easy to do. And unfortunately, no graph can be given because it is relatively complex...and you are using analog controls. So, sight and sound have to be your guide. If you have never pulse sprayed before, and are not familiar with it, it is not going to be easy. My recommendation is if you are going to buy it, study up on pulse MIG welding. Very little public information is out there on it, though. If you are looking for information, go back to some older texts books. If I remember right, the AWS doesn't recognize pulse mig as a process to be used in production. These machines though operate very similar to the pulse MIGs of the 70's and 80's, before synergic, processor controlled MIG came around that could manage all these parameters for you.

    Finally, the thickness of metal it will weld will vary on joint prep. Don't expect to achieve great results if you are trying to butt weld 3/8" metal...Not unless you have 500 amps to play with.
    Last edited by performance; 02-17-2012 at 04:49 PM.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    Someguy,

    A few comments to clarify:

    The 205P isn't enough power for welding steel with pulse correctly, at least not in spray mode as it should be. Aluminum, however takes less power to spray.
    The amp control is simply the wire speed control. It isn't "automatic". Amp/Wire feed are the same thing. Wire speed controls amps. They are directly tied together. Either term and way of looking at it is correct. Other welders on the market in the past and today use amps as the setting. It is just another way of looking at it. In other words: THERE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENCE>

    Pulse on a MIG does NOT work like Pulse on a TIG. In fact, there are two types of pulse on a MIG, single and double. Our migs are single pulse. That means a faster pulse speed. IF you are looking for a stack of dimes this is not that kind of pulse. The minimum pulse frequency is 20 hz, and that is enough to make a nice, close ripple, but not what some people are thinking. The pulse actually pulses voltage, and not amps(wire speed). Pulse on a MIG is SUPPOSED to be used for spray transfer process, and the pulse dip in volts, brings it back down into the globular transfer long enough to cool the weld, but not actually transfer any metal while in the globular voltage range. Some people try to use single pulse for short circuit mode , but it simply isn't designed for this, and cold fusion will likely result. Use of special blend gas of 90/10, or pure argon (for aluminum) is required.

    Duty cycle at 35% is rarely achieved especially welding at 200 amps (max wire speed).

    MIG pulse is NOT for the beginner, especially for a manually set pulse MIG. It is an advanced process that takes every resource of a trained, and skilled MIG welder to understand and recognize a properly set pulse MIG. It is not like setting a tig, to suit your taste. There are a number of variables that have to be set just right to achieve a proper pulse weld. That is why most, if not all pulse migs on the market these days are synergic, and pre programmed. These units are NOT! Pulse time on, and pulse differential (pulse voltages) and frequency each must be in correct sync or you will have a hard time setting it. IT is something that is not easy to do. And unfortunately, no graph can be given because it is relatively complex...and you are using analog controls. So, sight and sound have to be your guide. If you have never pulse sprayed before, and are not familiar with it, it is not going to be easy. My recommendation is if you are going to buy it, study up on pulse MIG welding. Very little public information is out there on it, though. If you are looking for information, go back to some older texts books. If I remember right, the AWS doesn't recognize pulse mig as a process to be used in production. These machines though operate very similar to the pulse MIGs of the 70's and 80's, before synergic, processor controlled MIG came around that could manage all these parameters for you.

    Finally, the thickness of metal it will weld will vary on joint prep. Don't expect to achieve great results if you are trying to butt weld 3/8" metal...Not unless you have 500 amps to play with.
    Name:  thinking[1].gif
Views: 1588
Size:  4.0 KB Since you hold this rare knowledge, you could make some videos for our relatively empty youtube channel.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  17. #17

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    I have asked for one of the units to be sent at least a dozen times...or more. Can't make videos without the product.

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    I have asked for one of the units to be sent at least a dozen times...or more. Can't make videos without the product.
    What do you mean by this ? You can't get a 205P ?

  19. Default

    Finally, the thickness of metal it will weld will vary on joint prep. Don't expect to achieve great results if you are trying to butt weld 3/8" metal...Not unless you have 500 amps to play with.
    ??????? Can't butt weld 3/8" steel ????

  20. #20

    Default

    That's what I said. Getting units out for video is apparently low on the priority list with Oleg. I have asked for a 250P for several years now to test. It's in his court.

    No, you can't butt weld 3/8" steel. The "capability" we and our competitors refer to is not typically a buttweld joint. It is an edge prepared joint. It takes approx 1 amp per .001" of metal thickness to make a "butt weld" and get anywhere near 100% penetration.

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