ARGON and ARGON/CO2 TANK SIZES

[Steve]

Rentals are generally the 200 to 300 CFT sizes due to government mandates. Renting a smaller tank just does not make good economic sense. I asked the manager at the local welding supply store about that and he told me that they usually never check the smaller tanks for ownership especially if you are a regular customer. As long as it does not say RENTAL on it, you are good to go!

The tanks I bought were owned by a company that is now out of business in the Detroit area and so the LWS had no trouble exchanging them. The guy who sold them sells tons of them and buys from auctions. I figured I saved around $700 on my tanks by buying from Craigslist off this guy. All are 125 CFT tanks and when bought were full. He carries argon, 75/25, and O/A tanks.

All the tanks I have had raised lettering and that has never been an issue with getting refilled.(actually exchanged) The only thing that gas companies will not do is exchange tanks from another vendor....like Airgas tanks at a Matheson dealer. Here is a cool video from a weldor friend Freddytk421......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndGB-Ww47M4 that explains the legal issues of tanks.

I do agree that you should do your homework though. I never would buy an adulterated tank. Also make sure that the tank has been tested within the last few years. Some folks have tanks that have been around a while and sell them. Then you get them and find out that they need to be tested. You have to pay for that test.

Here is a link to a US military site for the markings on pressure vessels.....http://www.usamma.army.mil/assets/do...20Markings.pdf

[performance]

Steve,
You have Rental tanks. IF they have the company's name on them, they ARE stolen. This guy is probably buying them for 10 or 15 bucks from a Junkie who has been peddling the tanks he has on his work truck and selling his company's leased cylinders. This guy is definitely a fence. Why else would they put their name on them? What you are doing is flying under the radar. If you are taking them in for refill, and they are swapping them out, then they are either turning a blind eye OR they are assuming that you are paying rent. I've seen his videos. You need to rewatch it. It says along as it does NOT have the welding companies name you are good to go.This is a case of selective listening. In fact the video supports EVERYTHING we have said here... Airgas for one does NOT mark their tanks rental...NONE of mine have rental on them and all 4 of them are on lease. Some companies have been caught refilling stolen tanks. Others continue to do it unscrupulously for a quick buck but when they get caught its a major fine. Just because the company may have gone out in your area, does not mean that they are fair game. If they are still in business somewhere, then they belong to that company still. They also were probably bought out by an existing gas company and all their cylinders became the new owners property. Cylinders can last for 60 or 70 years and still be fine. For instance the other day, I got a tank that said "Union Carbide" on them and I questioned the company about them because I wanted to make sure they had not made a mistake, and after 3 or 4 mergers, they were acquired by air gas in my area.

[Steve]

Steve,
You have Rental tanks. IF they have the company's name on them, they ARE stolen. This guy is probably buying them for 10 or 15 bucks from a Junkie who has been peddling the tanks he has on his work truck and selling his company's leased cylinders. This guy is definitely a fence. Why else would they put their name on them? What you are doing is flying under the radar. If you are taking them in for refill, and they are swapping them out, then they are either turning a blind eye OR they are assuming that you are paying rent. I've seen his videos. You need to rewatch it. It says along as it does NOT have the welding companies name you are good to go.This is a case of selective listening. In fact the video supports EVERYTHING we have said here... Airgas for one does NOT mark their tanks rental...NONE of mine have rental on them and all 4 of them are on lease. Some companies have been caught refilling stolen tanks. Others continue to do it unscrupulously for a quick buck but when they get caught its a major fine. Just because the company may have gone out in your area, does not mean that they are fair game. If they are still in business somewhere, then they belong to that company still. They also were probably bought out by an existing gas company and all their cylinders became the new owners property. Cylinders can last for 60 or 70 years and still be fine. For instance the other day, I got a tank that said "Union Carbide" on them and I questioned the company about them because I wanted to make sure they had not made a mistake, and after 3 or 4 mergers, they were acquired by air gas in my area.

I think you and I are pretty much saying the same thing....but your assumptions are way out!

First I did not say that all rental tanks have rental on them. But if you come across a tank with RENTAL on them....stay away as you will not be able to get them exchanged.

You missed the most important part......as long as they are not the big tanks...200cft and up......the small ones can have names on them and not be a problem. I've talked to several gas dealers about this as I did have some questions. All said the same thing. The tanks 150 cft and under are not a problem as long as they don't say RENTAL on them. When I went to refill them, I asked the manager about the name on the tanks and they said the same as the video.....names are OK on smaller tanks....it even says so in printed letters on the screen in the video.

And no.....the company that was in business is totally out of business....it was a fabrication shop and had only one location. They owned the tanks outright. So they could not have any other place. I even checked with the guy I bought them from and he showed me the receipts he has for the tanks....bought from an auction company who specializes in company shut downs. The tank is marked "Toledo Oxygen & Equipment" and has a Matheson sticker....so Toledo Oxygen was bought legally from them and now can be refilled at a Matheson dealer. The area around Toledo and Detroit is an economic disaster with many fabrication and other businesses tied to the auto industry going out of business for good. I even called the Matheson dealership and they said my tank was good to own after our discussion here.

So no, my tanks are not rentals...they are not stolen.....one has a company name on it but the company is no longer in business. The guy I bought from does this as a business and specializes in buying and selling welding supplies and equipment from auction. He's been doing it for over 25 years. I found out about him from a friend who knows this guy well. He's up in Michigan and I drive up there every once in a while to buy a tank or two from him. I'm near Cleveland but it is worth the couple of hours drive to get them.

As you say though....."Caveot Emptor". Let the buyer beware.

[performance]

Steve,
What the problem is, is that there have been lawsuits between the companies over this very thing. The major companies pretty much agreed to disagree on the issue. SOME of these companies WILL fill the smaller ones because they aren't their major market. They still are likely stolen. The big bottle business was what was the major problem. Its their core market. They can live with losses of the small units and do turn a blind eye to it. They have all settled to allow the smaller ones to be filled, though technically its NOT their property.

[Steve]

Steve,
What the problem is, is that there have been lawsuits between the companies over this very thing. The major companies pretty much agreed to disagree on the issue. SOME of these companies WILL fill the smaller ones because they aren't their major market. They still are likely stolen. The big bottle business was what was the major problem. Its their core market. They can live with losses of the small units and do turn a blind eye to it. They have all settled to allow the smaller ones to be filled, though technically its NOT their property.

Mark, I am at a loss to figure out why you think they are stolen. Maybe it's me....but this guy is a business man and has been doing this for many years. I'm sure that if he was doing anything illegal, then he would have been caught by now. As I said, he is a friend of a friend and they vouch for him. I saw receipts.
His business is buying and selling used welding equipment and tanks. He even has a store.

I guess anything you buy on E-bay or Craigslist could be likely stolen. E-bay is loaded with small tanks. Using your logic, all small tanks are probably stolen at one time or another.

I was just at Valley gas today and they told me that they sell unmarked 250 cft tanks still. The marked rental tanks have a plastic collar around them now a days and have a UPC code on them to track them better.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I just hope our little discussion gave some information to others that can be used.

Sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread.

[Jason]

If there is no name on the tanks, that would mean they are perfectly ok? Is that what you are saying? I have been thinking about picking up a couple tanks from my girlfriends grandfather but would like to know that I will be ok. What should I look for on the tanks other than a rental marking?

[SeanMurphy265]

I think anytime you buy a used cylinder you take a chance on buying a stolen tank. Tanks always walk away from job sites, plant shut downs etc. A local paper mill where I grew up provided all welding gases during their shutdowns. I know people who unloaded old tanks for new ones, and not to mention nobody checked. People would probably return the tanks, but they would get caught. The company my dad worked for gave a $25.00 reward for returned tanks. Sometimes scrap collectors would bring them in thinking they could sell them back, they did not know the company owned the bottles.

[DVA]

At Vern Lewis welding supply in Phoenix you can purchase a tank and any time you want to up size, the up size cost is the difference in tank prices. I would assume that is how most gas vendors treat owner bottles.

I got a good deal on my tank, if I would have rented, my payments over the last year would have payed for about 70% of the cost to purchase the tank. Purchasing a tank is the best way to go if you plan on welding for a few years (or for some of us here, the rest of our lives). And if the tank size is not correct you can always change out the size when you go to fill it up.

[trickbiker]

At Vern Lewis welding supply in Phoenix you can purchase a tank and any time you want to up size, the up size cost is the difference in tank prices. I would assume that is how most gas vendors treat owner bottles.

I got a good deal on my tank, if I would have rented, my payments over the last year would have payed for about 70% of the cost to purchase the tank. Purchasing a tank is the best way to go if you plan on welding for a few years (or for some of us here, the rest of our lives). And if the tank size is not correct you can always change out the size when you go to fill it up.

When I went to gas on my mig this year I decided to get a bigger tank and was informed I couldn't because the bigger one were for commercial people. What!! Am I missing something here.

[everlastsupport]

When I went to gas on my mig this year I decided to get a bigger tank and was informed I couldn't because the bigger one were for commercial people. What!! Am I missing something here.

Should not be a problem. Long as you have the money down here, they all will swap you out on owner tanks. But worse case, just get an account setup with them and they will sell you anything you want.

[Tritium]

When I went to gas on my mig this year I decided to get a bigger tank and was informed I couldn't because the bigger one were for commercial people. What!! Am I missing something here.

I deal with Airgas and as long as you have the money they will set you up with whatever size you want. Your situation is strange for sure.

Thurmond

[67cudafb]

I talked to Airgas in gainesville and the biggest tank they will sell is 125 if you want a larger tank you have to rent. I don't have a account with them and that my make a differance.

[performance]

That is true. Anything over 125 must rent or lease. I lease 4 tanks from them. Better off that way in many respects.
But the bit about "commercial" people doesn't hold water. If you submit a credit app, they will be glad to set you up in most cases. If not keep looking. In any small town there are several welding stores close by.

[Tritium]

I talked to Airgas in gainesville and the biggest tank they will sell is 125 if you want a larger tank you have to rent. I don't have a account with them and that my make a differance.

True, I lease (rent is by the month, lease is by the year) most of the bottles that I use less so I don't have to be worried about having hydro testing done on my bottles when they are due. My local welding shop sells and trades out bottles so you usually never have the same bottle back anyway whether rented or user owned.

[DVA]

When I went to gas on my mig this year I decided to get a bigger tank and was informed I couldn't because the bigger one were for commercial people. What!! Am I missing something here.

I would just ask for the manager if someone said that. That is crazy in this market to turn down a sale.

[redbeard]

Here is a link to a US military site for the markings on pressure vessels.....http://www.usamma.army.mil/assets/do...20Markings.pdf

The document is titled "Oxygen Cylinder Markings" is that info good for all other bottles as well?