Power Tig 225LX Pulse Question

[MikeGyver]

I bought a PT200dx almost a month ago, mainly to do aluminum. It's a badass welder but I am very disappointed in the pulse feature and want to upgrade to the 225LX if it's pulse works differently (which I believe Mark of tech support may have mentioned it was when I spoke with him on the phone).

The PT200DX's pulse feature is designed backwards and is essentially useless.

You set the pulse on current at the panel and the pedal sets the background current. Locking the welder at a certain high current (for a set pulse duration) and using the pedal to lower the off pulse duration is absurd. If you're welding near an edge or whatever and back the pedal way off you still get a huge blast of full power during the pulse on time.

I want to do the 30 day trade up program to a 225LX if it has a normal pulse feature. "Normal" being like Miller and Lincoln: the pedal or panel sets the pulse current and the background current is set to come down to a percentage of it.

Someone who owns a PT225LX (or an everlast employee) please chime in how the pulse works ASAP since I'm getting near my 30 days, Thanks.


Just for fun, some pics of aluminum:

[everlastsupport]

You will want to go to the LX to correct this. Only difference I can think of is our balance knob is opposite of theirs (Miller). Mark can chime in if he can think of anything else. I've use the LX for years and I it's fantastic welder.

As you posted some pictures, not sure if you are aware we are having a contest. Might want to check it out and join if you have the time.

[performance]

A little harsh with the title perhaps? Particularly with a unit functioning as it should.
Let me give an "official" and further detailed explanation of the 200DX operation. The pulse is NOT designed backwards, and not useless. But it is different.


As pulse is designed, it is designed for torch trigger 2T/4T use and the most benefit is gotten from it. The use of pulse with a foot pedal is akin to a dog chasing its tail.I know people use it this way, but it was not originally intended to use it this way because it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to predict a constantly varying average of amps to precisely control heat input on critical welds. Pulsing is designed for critical heat input where parameters must be precisely controlled. This is not possible with a foot pedal as the foot pedal is not going to be stable or accurate. All you are essentially doing with the foot pedal is "averaging" down the current with the effect being just a cooler weld overall without any clear idea as to what the inputs were. IF you want to weld cooler, turn the pulse off and use less amperage. The pulse duration ISN"T controlled by the foot pedal. Only the base"(MAIN) amperage.

You also may actually have the down slope turned on. Turn the down slope off while using the pedal if you insist on using it this way. The foot pedal on the 200DX only controls ONE value not both values. It controls the main welding amps, and not the pulse amps, so while you are on the pedal the pulse amps remain constant. "Normal" operation as described isn't necessarily normal, it is "normal" from your experience, but other current companies of the world (Miller is a medium sized fish in the giant sea of welder companies) and even Miller of the past have/had a limiting rheostat on the foot pedal.

In further defense of the 200DXFor the price of the 200DX, this is our entry pulse tig welder. You don't get the fancy operation features, though perhaps it is our most reliable unit.

Now with that said the 225 does operate with a ratio controlled pulse that does operate the way you describe as "normal". The thirty day limitation policy does not apply to trade ups, but a 20% restocking surcharge is in force, since the unit is functioning properly and is open for 6 months. The unit must be sold as used/demo if returned since it is functioning properly.

[sportbike]

I have a 200DX adn have no problems with it. The pulse works exactly as described in the manual.

I disagree that pulse and foot pedal are not able to be used together. I have found that using the foot pedal with the other bell and whistle features is quite functional. The key is to adjust the foot pedal to the amperage you want to weld at, and max out the pedal when your weld is going steady state. The 2t/4t switch control does exactly this (either off or maxed out). That said, on the 200DX, upslope is not programmable, which can cause quite a hot start when usign the panel. This is fine for thicker items, but on very thin wall tubing, it can be a bit much.

I have used the torch control to weld when out of position and foot pedal is difficult to use, but there is no real way to control startup. I have also found that the torch controls do not allow any adjustment during the weld (other than manually pulsing the trigger). Torch Controls could be very good for production welding where the parameters are well established, but when welding one-off's, the required weld power can change throughout the weld due to head soak or heat sink conditions of a complex joint. The foot pedal allows a small amount of dialing the power in as needed, and also allows a soft start on the 200DX (225 and 250 have a start-up slope adjustment)

Mike,
what is youre intended result ofthe pulse feature? Is it to vary the current to acheive less burn through, or is it to "automatically" control the weld appearance and act as a guide for when to add filler and travel?
"Locking the welder at a certain high current (for a set pulse duration) and using the pedal to lower the off pulse duration is absurd. If you're welding near an edge or whatever and back the pedal way off you still get a huge blast of full power during the pulse on time."

This statement infers that you have a very low pulse frequency and are usign the pulse as a timer to create better looking welds. Try increaseing the pulse frequency and the "huge blast" will not occur, weld current will be much smoother.

John

[SeanMurphy265]

I've been using the pulse control with the foot pedal as well. Before I purchased my 200dx it had been 10 years since the last time I picked up a tig welder. For me the pulse function is extremely helpful, especially since I have been re-learning all that I lost. To be honest I find the pulse function helpful and makes up for my lack of ability. With that being said should turn the pulse function off when welding with the foot control?

[MikeGyver]

I haven't said anything derogatory toward the welder (infact I've given it praise). I've just said that I am disappointed with how the pulser works. For what I use it for it simply does not work practically. I'd rather not have to hook up my Miller Maxstar 150 STH to weld certain things if my everlast is already hooked up.

For the kind of stuff I weld using pulse with a foot pedal is a extremely common and a very nice feature; almost necessary. I do alot of butt welds on thin wall mandrel bent exhaust piping with no gap so very little filler added (only as necessary). The piping is for turbocharger kits and the welds must look good. Running a pulse lets you keep the puddle very mild during the background current setting and allows it to wash in and fuse during the pulse. This greatly increases heat control and weld appearance. Using the foot pedal is necessary because the inside and outside of the mandrel bends vary greatly in thickness due to the metal stretching and shrinking of the mandrel bending process.

The thirty day limitation policy does not apply to trade ups, but a 20% restocking surcharge is in force, since the unit is functioning properly and is open for 6 months. The unit must be sold as used/demo if returned since it is functioning properly.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Doesn't the 30 trade up policy give you the option of trading your machine for a higher model and paying the price difference within the first 30 days?

If I would have known how the 200dx pulser works vs the 225lx, I would have bought the 225lx from the get go.

[Tritium]

The thirty day total satisfaction warranty should cover trade ups. Since your unit is working I think you have to pay return shipping but there should be no problem with a trade. Of course I am not affiliated with Everlast, just a customer who traded up from a SuperCut 50P to a PowerUltra 205P within the first 30 days. PM and e-mail Oleg is my suggestion.

Thurmond

[Oleg]

Thurmond

it was different with you , your SC50 was not working properly. If the costumer wants to return or upgrade a perfectly working unit there is a 10% restocking fee. (Mark made mistake on 20%) Shipping also not covered by Everlast.

[Tritium]

That is why I suggested he contact you. Good to know Oleg, Thanks.

Thurmond

[performance]

The trade up policy was what I was referring to after the 30 days, since it was mentioned it was close. Yes, I did confuse the terms. The trade UP is 20% of the original purchase price(refund minus 20%) on working items plus the price of the traded up welder.

I believe the derogatory nature came from the original title of the thread and the thumbs down. No problems though. I see the title was reedited. Your complaint is fine.np. I understand the intent.

But we have discussed the function of the 200DX here and I believe it is listed in the manual as already confirmed in this thread by another user. So we don't hide it or cover it up. Its up to the customer to do their homework though, as we try to provide every opportunity to explain and show the differences, as well as how it functions is noted on the website. It has a direct amperage control over the pulse as stated. That would/should tell the customer it isn't ratio controlled. That naturally means that the pulse isn't going to work the same and the pulse amps are fixed when you step on the pedal, but I guess we need some other way to explain it. Not sure.

[Oleg]

The trade up policy was what I was referring to after the 30 days, since it was mentioned it was close. Yes, I did confuse the terms. The trade UP is 20% of the original purchase price(refund minus 20%) on working items plus the price of the traded up welder.

I believe the derogatory nature came from the original title of the thread and the thumbs down. No problems though. I see the title was reedited. Your complaint is fine.np. I understand the intent.

But we have discussed the function of the 200DX here and I believe it is listed in the manual as already confirmed in this thread by another user. So we don't hide it or cover it up. Its up to the customer to do their homework though, as we try to provide every opportunity to explain and show the differences, as well as how it functions is noted on the website. It has a direct amperage control over the pulse as stated. That would/should tell the customer it isn't ratio controlled. That naturally means that the pulse isn't going to work the same and the pulse amps are fixed when you step on the pedal, but I guess we need some other way to explain it. Not sure.

Mark you right , AFTER 30days its 20% for upgrade
restocking fee for normally working unit with in 30days is 10%

[MikeGyver]

But we have discussed the function of the 200DX here and I believe it is listed in the manual as already confirmed in this thread by another user. So we don't hide it or cover it up. Its up to the customer to do their homework though, as we try to provide every opportunity to explain and show the differences, as well as how it functions is noted on the website. It has a direct amperage control over the pulse as stated. That would/should tell the customer it isn't ratio controlled. That naturally means that the pulse isn't going to work the same and the pulse amps are fixed when you step on the pedal, but I guess we need some other way to explain it. Not sure.

lol... then I've found the source of the confusion.

Here's a screenshot of the 200DX webpage:



I fell like I've been 'duped' by your advertised specification errors... Believe me I did my homework. Why would I question the specs that are published clearly right on the main page? Is it really "up to me" as your customer to dig deep in the manuals and uncover any and all possible errors? ...really?

I think the 10% return fee needs to be waived in this situation for obvious reasons... Besides, I'm not dropping Everlast all together, I think I would like to pay the difference and upgrade to the 225LX.

[performance]

NO one has been duped here. Someone changed that on the webmaster side. The website is managed from India and it was a keying error when someone recently updated the 315. I set up this chart personally and that error was NOT there until recently. We cannot keep tabs on this on a daily basis and we do say specifications are subject to change without notice on the site. It was the same as the I TIG 200 as you see. IF you looked there are TWO OTHER spots BEFORE you get to this graph that state otherwise, both the downloadable brochure ON THIS PAGE gives and the expandable picture just above the graph SHOWS the entire panel layout of features so there cannot be much doubt. ALSO the manual page 9 specifies this SPECIFICALLY states the operation. And page 14 sec. 6 also mentions this. My count is that is 4-1 correct/incorrect. We have also discussed the information on this forum about it as well at some time.
The 10% fee will not be waved as the unit is now considered used and we will take a bigger hit than that. Oleg, the boss has confirmed this himself here...and the buck stops with him. Should you have read any of the other available information, the error would have been discovered and a question could have been asked and we would have been glad to not only correct the error but also to confirm the correct setting. But I don't know of anyone who just reads part of the information available to them about a new purchase to make their decision But we will be glad to abide by the policy we state on the site. Its is a fair policy and from the looks of it you have made some nice looking beads.

I don't have any personal issue with you or what you are saying about the error. There is one incorrect statement among several correct. You say you did your homework...This is what I question. EVEN if you LOOKED at the unit panel face just above the graph, you would have discovered the error. If I were looking for a new unit, I'd want to see up close and personally the appearance and the features.

[MikeGyver]

Mark, like I just said... it's not up to a paying customer to scour all sources of information, tally up your error score, and decipher it. When incorrect information is posted (on the main page none the less) you're going to have a problem sooner or later. Suggesting it's the customers fault is impressively ignorant on your part, it's not my responsibility to maintain your website. Saving a customer (and your reputation to a degree) over a mere $107 due to your own error should be a no brainer. The product pictures aren't accurate to the actual products anyway, so don't try to play that card. I received different equipment than pictured. You seem to be more interested in pointing the finger than actually offering useful customer support and solving issues.

I'm not here to argue, so thank you Mark for your input on the situation, but as I understand it you're not the person who handles return issues. Hopefully another employee will be more reasonable regarding the matter.

[performance]

Mike,
When you say you did your homework, you opened yourself up to scrutiny about it. I was pointing out that you accused us of duping you and having done your homework....Coming and asking for an "out of policy" change about it and raising the issue in that way seems like a punch in the face of someone trying to help you. We have a policy and it stands...You can debate, and all of that...That's fine, but its exactly why we have policies. Please tell me you read that before you bought? I don't mean to take an aggressive stance here, but it IS up to the buyer to investigate things before he purchases. Its always been part of the free enterprise system. This "Its not my fault" mentality you are promoting is symptomatic of the terrible downward spiral of our society and you are asking to be rewarded for it. We have admitted to have inconsistency with one small item out of several dozen total specifications on that graph. But IF you had truly done your homework this would have been resolved by the preponderance of the information leaning the other way...plus you could have simply asked for clarification. But I am sure we will figure out someway to get this worked out for you but delaying further will put you over into the 20% return policy. Eating 110 dollars as you say is NOT correct, as we will have to offer a significant discount to resell your unit, eating any/all profit from the sale and possibly then some.

Different equipment? Please explain. If you are missing something or owed it, then you should receive it and we can send it to you, np. Otherwise, about the only thing different is a foot pedal change, which has been talked about over and over and a different colored handle on the torch.

[sportbike]

Mike certainly does have a point in the inconsistencies in advertising. The posted secs, the PDF flyers, and the part descriptions are all different in the different locations. Where it is managed from is irrelevant in this case as it is all the responsibility of Everlast. Explanations like "deal with it", "it's your responsibility", and "It is not my problem, someone else has been contracted to manage a website [from India]" are exactly the reasons that a company such as Everlast gets bashed time and time again. I have a welder and the quality seems to be great, certainly cannot be matched or even close for the money.

I did alot of research and asked questions about specs before purchasing a machine. Quite frankly, I was surprised that the machine actually came with the specs that were discussed (Duty cycle, pre flow, and current usage) since there was so much variation between the spec sheets, etc.

Understanding that "everything is subbed to India", it seems that it woudl be much less problematic on the part of Everlast to make a conscious effort to maintain the specifications posted on the website, and control the bills of material and instruction manuals that are shipped with the units from China. It is easy to say,"throw away the plug that comes in the package, and disregard the poor instruction manuals, and changes in ports on welders", but that method of dealing adds to the disrespect given my many potential consumers. Sure, many of the folks just want to poke holes in the company. Patch up those holes and then there is very little negative to say since Everlast has a quality product.

I personally do not understand wheat the issue is with the pulse control as it seems it can still be setup to do whatever you want with it, although it may not be the "conventional" way of doing so.
Can you explain, Mike, what it is that you can't do with the pulse that you will be able to do with a 225? or is it just a matter of being easier to setup?

John

[performance]

There are literally several hundred pages associated with the web site and growing. We have nearly 30+ products that are available or will be so by the end of the year. Everything has to be set up here, sent there, created, proofread, and then corrected, proofread again and then sometimes a small correction will undo an update somewhere along the way. An update made to one page does not automatically update all pages throughout, leading to an older piece of information on another page. This process takes days, and even weeks. I know, because I work with it DAILY. We can have it all fixed, and approved, and some small change later, it can all be undone by the web people making one small mistake. There IS a conscious effort. I have personally spent many hours on "major competitors websites" and have found many, many inconsistencies and errors, both large and small. IF they have numerous inconsistencies, then I am sure a company our size with more limited resources with limited will have a few. We can have "more" personnel and resources, but everything has an expense attached to it leading to higher prices for the sake of a perfect website. I think that our current demand situation, speaks to the fact that we are doing an adequate job in conveying the needed information to our customers. If an inconsistency has been found, a note or question is ALWAYS welcome so we can open up dialog and improve the page. But one correction takes a lot of time. I have spent many many late nights working with the web people...They are about 13-14.5 hours different from me, depending upon where the particular person is located. Its not uncommon for me to work till 4 am in the morning and start taking tech calls at 9 am the same morning, working on manuals in between, and then doing video work and editing etc.


Add to that the fact, that I have the responsibility of working with the factory, designing the features, layout and spec'ing out the welders, so far as to the panel layouts itself, English manuals, tech support, sales etc. If you like the way the welder is laid out and overall feel, you can thank me, if not, well, I guess those guys buy elsewhere. If you have a welding support question, you will talk to me. And if you want to buy a welder, I help in that aspect also. I am not saying I am a one man band, because there are technical inputs from others, that all have to be integrated into the units. Duncan and Ray work with the factory directly as well as Mike. The repair center has their ideas for improvements and all has to incorporated and it must be worked together. Its a little more busy behind the scenes than anyone can possibly imagine unless they have been working with a company overseas themselves.

Now there are issues we have addressed with the factory, but we cannot be there every minute, and the way the Chinese are, you must micromanage a lot of things. We prefer to spend our time and efforts where it counts most on the basic product and improving features, functionality and quality.

[ogorir]

that chart is very misleading and is the only place I've personally ever looked at the specs for everlast's tigs. I've been looking at buying one since jody first did a video on them, so that's been a while. the chart, to the best of my knowledge, has always been the same, and the only real difference it points out is a change in max amperage between the 200 and 225. based on that, and the fact that the panels are identical, save for 2 knobs (and there are still a lot of knobs), I'd expect the features to operate the same.

they don't, as I've come to find out on the forum, but I'd wager that most people make their decision looking at that chart, as it lays all the features out so you can get a feel for the differences between the machines. if there is anything wrong on that chart, I'd relay to your web people that it's a HIGH PRIORITY to keep that information up to date with the welders. it looks like whomever set up the webpage made an assumption and copied over the specs. the 200dx should have n/a in the amp ratio, and .5/25* or whatever the actual frequency is with a * note at the bottom, explaining it.

I'm really not seeing why the restock fee wouldn't be waived, this is a website advertizing error, which is still everlast's responsibility, and it seems like the OP legitimately thought the pulse would be adjustable like on most machines with pulse. I can tell you that if I went for the 200dx over the 225lx*, which conceivably I might as I don't need the bump in amperage, I'd be real pissed about the pulse control.

*the further range of adjustability on AC balance and frequency and pulse sold me on the 250ex long ago, even though I really don't need more than 150A. I've found that the more tools you've got when welding aluminum, the better. plus, I'm interested to see how far you can reduce the HAZ on thin stainless with pulse. now I just need to sell the boss that a TIG is a necessity.

[performance]

The chart has changed...In fact its been amended 3 times this year,twice in the last 3 months...with the latest version just a couple of weeks ago when things got shifted around with the change in the 315 LX. But plans have been to integrate more information into the chart for better understanding. Any one actually went page by page on the site recently? Several product pages have been added as well as the comparison graphs have been updated for plasma and for MIG. As far as the designations, the pulse frequency is self explanatory. There is one mistake with the pulse amps on one product. But elsewhere the product specs are correct. But the problem is where do you draw the line in the explanations? Do you include a complete primer on what pulse is as well? See, each one of you are thinking something entirely different in your mind just when I mention it. Some know basically what pulse is. Some know exactly what pulse is, Some have not a clue about what pulse is. Each one of you would give a different idea of what should be included. We have to create this information with a certain level of "literacy" expectation in the field of welding. Its like newspapers, have to write on some level of built in comprehension. They used to say they wrote on a 6th grade, level, though I expect today it would be considered a 8th or 9th grade level. You have to pick a point where certain assumptions of understanding will be.

But I will start working on remedying this chart as well today.

[sportbike]

I am just throwing out there some areas that can improve the image of Everlast. The product is great adn the quality / features cannot be matched at this or any reasonable price point. Owners of the equipment know this as they have first hand experience. Perspective buyers just see the errors. I go through this all of the time when evaluating motorcycle performance parts. If there are numebrous spelling errors and inconsistencies in the literature, you can bet the product is not going inside my motor. I am no spelling / typing guru myself, but when a product manual or literature contains many errors, it is all too often a bad sign.

Public perception is king. If the market is only for the die hard DIY'er that will overlook all of the typical marketing issues, then Everlast's product is great as is. If suggestions for improvement aren't welcomed, then that is fine as well.

144mph in the 1/8th mile on the bike this weekend with 181mph up top in the 1/4 :-)