pt250ex vs pp256

[performance]

No typo. It is correct. There are many reasons, I have cited in the past additionally for choosing the individual units. IMHEO, the ONLY reason to purchase a multi process Tig/plasma is for portable repair operations. It is NOT intended for production or fabrication. Its designed to offer a go anywhere package that can be ported around as a single unit, say, in off road, a portable repair business, or even a factory for shutdowns or line repair. Its for where space is an space consideration is an absolute requirement.

[ASE_MasterTech]

No typo. It is correct. There are many reasons, I have cited in the past additionally for choosing the individual units. IMHEO, the ONLY reason to purchase a multi process Tig/plasma is for portable repair operations. It is NOT intended for production or fabrication. Its designed to offer a go anywhere package that can be ported around as a single unit, say, in off road, a portable repair business, or even a factory for shutdowns or line repair. Its for where space is an space consideration is an absolute requirement.

Huh what???
Everlast (you) list the PP256 as capable of, & I quote from your website - "General Repair, Fabrication, Motorsports, Industrial, Commercial, HVAC"
Please elaborate on this "downgrade"...

[performance]

Originally it wasn't put there. I know, because I wrote it. Apparently in some changes in the site, some templates got changed. The web guys are constantly making changes, and it is hard to keep up with when they do or undo something and screw up a page.

I and others have been clear from the outset about its abilities and limitations. To operate, you must constantly change out the hoses, lines and gases when you change the processes. This is not conducive a production/fabrication environment. Add to that the added parts involved in its manufacture, it does NOT have the same duty cycle as a production machine, and from a purely statistical standpoint, you will have more issues. A problem with one part of the unit equals a problem with the whole unit, and loss of use while it is being repaired/replaced if something happens. Is it industrial capable? Yes. Is it a commercial unit? Yes...But I am not arguing it isn't. I am telling people what the intended application is of this unit in the industrial/commercial market.

I never sell or promote them for fabrication, unless someone is clear on their limitations.

Unless space limitations or the conditions exist that I previously listed above, it is still my opinion that the customer is always better off with independent units. As I said before, and say again: Never had a person call me up and tell me they wish they had NOT bought individual units...but on the other hand, I have had several call me up and say they wish they had bought the separate units.

[mrprism]

Originally it wasn't put there. I know, because I wrote it. Apparently in some changes in the site, some templates got changed. The web guys are constantly making changes, and it is hard to keep up with when they do or undo something and screw up a page.

...but on the other hand, I have had several call me up and say they wish they had bought the separate units.

Your post that is quoted above is from March 2011. I ordered in October 2010 and remember "Fabrication, Industrial, and Motorsports" were CLEARLY listed then too, but it looks like I should have gotten a 250EX from what you're saying. If the PP256 is not truly intended for those environments then why on Oct 12, 2011 is it STILL listed that way. I feel like I got punched in the nuts! I'm thinking about a mig setup which is why I'm here but.. I don't know.

[performance]

Your post that is quoted above is from March 2011. I ordered in October 2010 and remember "Fabrication, Industrial, and Motorsports" were CLEARLY listed then too, but it looks like I should have gotten a 250EX from what you're saying. If the PP256 is not truly intended for those environments then why on Oct 12, 2011 is it STILL listed that way. I feel like I got punched in the nuts! I'm thinking about a mig setup which is why I'm here but.. I don't know.

Mrprism,

A few things in reply:
1) The 256 certainly welds nearly as good as any other product we sell. I'd give it a 90% on cutting (my personal belief).
2) The remark made about "industrial" and "fabrication" is related to a production setting. It does not mean it can't serve in an industrial setting, but its design is intended to be used for repair and fabrication for things like you'd find in a small design or repair shop. A typical example of appropriate "industrial use" in my mind would be where they needed to take the unit through a factory to make a steam valve repair or a fix conveyor or a food table.
3) Using your welder in any of these settings will not void the warranty. The unit is covered regardless of use, except for abuse (or dropping or running it in water)
4) 35% has traditionally been a homeowner, small shop duty cycle. Until recently this was the standard until Miller's Marketing got in the way of good sense. Now they will tell you it is a
"light industrial" duty cycle. Well since they are bigger than we are, who can argue? But if you pick up a text book or go back a few years in their literature, it'll tell you 60% is the gold standard for industrial use. Any thing less should be considered homeowner, hobby, or small shop duty.
5) There's a lot packed into the same box as the 250EX, more parts, and more items and some sharing the same circuits, other not. Conventional wisdom will tell you that the more parts you have stuffed in the same space, and more parts in general decreases reliability. That is the major rub where we have tried to clarify the units application. A commercial facility expects nothing less than the most reliable product... and the 256, while not a BAD product doesn't reach the level of reliability of our other products because of the extra parts in side....Also most commercial facilities will not have a use for a machine that does double duty like this. They will have separate products. Again, the reason we have pointed out many times the application of this unit favors portable repair is that it does not require the carrying around of 2 units. This is a favorable item for portable repair, where operational efficiency isn't always expected. Changing the lines and hoses back and forth in a heavy industrial production setting ISN"T going to cut it for most companies.

With that said, we do have people using them in places from factories to oil derricks on the sea.

As far as our MIGs, I'll put my MIG up with any comparable MIG on the market. You'll find precious little complaints or service issues with these units. They will weld circles around any transformer welder of the same size class on the market of any company. And they will double duty as a stick welder. This isn't a "added" component feature as with the 256, and is accomplished with the existing circuitry. Add to it the inductance/arc force control, and the unit is the best on the market. We use heavier gear drive feeders, with all metal components as well. Spatter is almost non existent. Don't forget we actually use a name brand torch with our units, instead of a "copy" version. Beware of cheaply made MIG torches.

[zoama]

@ performance (Mark),
What do you think of this hose setup for the PP256... there are no leaks and changing process only takes a few seconds.



I'm not a sensitive person so make no effort to spare my feelings if you don't like the hose setup.

[performance]

As I have told others, that's not what I consider ideal.
The problem is that the coupling and uncoupling of the lines leads to condensation in the mouths of the fittings, introducing moisture to the system. A static situation where valves are used is the best.

It does not solve the changing out torch issue.

[acourtjester]

Having to switch gas supplies is like many things we all have a different way.
Here is mine having a forum to show thing is a great help to see what other's have done and select the one you like.
I find my project book gets larger from what I have seen posted and thats a good thing.

have fun
Tom

[mrprism]

The remark made about "industrial" and "fabrication" is related to a production setting. It does not mean it can't serve in an industrial setting, but its design is intended to be used for repair and fabrication for things like you'd find in a small design or repair shop.

Changing the lines and hoses back and forth in a heavy industrial production setting ISN"T going to cut it for most companies.

Ok I see what your getting at. Industrial and fabrication as far as something like a production line. I agree, I wouldn't think a company would have 15 or 20 PP256's in that type of setting, as you state, changing the lines and such would kill efficiency and production. PLUS you're welding all day long day after day. That requires a much higher duty cycle. I thought you were saying the 256 was strictly a hobbyist machine and had no real business in a professional shop. I have a small shop where we'll be welding one or maybe two projects at a time, and the welder is used at least 15 to 20 hours in a week. I have never had the machine quit because of a duty issue and its handy to be able to plasma some stuff when you need to. After you clarified your remarks and I thought about what you're getting at, I understand what you mean. I thought you were saying the machine didn't belong in a shop like mine when in fact, its a perfect fit. We don't weld constantly, we only need plasma once in a while, the projects we have are smaller in scale, (Alum manifold mods, turbo down pipes, suspension control arms, Caltrac bars etc.) and it supplements another small welder. I guess the terms "industrial" and "fabrication" are all relative in nature. I would consider us an automotive industrial small custom fab shop, but we're no Griffin Radiator or Hooker Headers either. All in all I don't know why I got so excited, once my issues were sorted out the 256 has been a great machine so far. I just thought you ment it wasn't intended for what we are using it for when in reality its a great fit.

Alan

[mrprism]

Hey ASE_MasterTech, How do you like your Longevity 256PI? How does it compare to the PP256? Do you have any input on other Longevity products? I have an automotive fab and production shop and just want to be guided to the right mig welder choice. I currently only have a 120V mig so anything pretty thick needs to be Tig welded which costs me time. Red and Blue are awesome, but I think they are a bit overpriced. I have an opportunity to get a good deal on an Everlast but don't want to make the wrong choice in welder again. Input welcome.

[everlastsupport]

If I had a shop, I would go with the 250EX. A dedicated heavier duty cycle machine. A little lighter in weight (not a big deal). Takes up more space, but no hose and torch swapping between welding and cutting. You can save a lot of money with us, but the bigger price bang on our products come with some trade offs too.

I have use the PP256, nothing wrong with it, but I like a dedicated TIG and higher duty.

As far as the competition, I would check everyones forums to see when we announced our PP256 units and how long before other announced something like it with a 256 in the name and the IGBT drivers. You will find who the leader and innovator is. You will also find only a couple even offer a product like we designed.

It all really comes down to you and your needs. I am sure people that have used our units will chime in and you will hear but are good. I just know what I like.

[DVA]

With the cost of the Everlast plasma cutters I would just opt to purchase a single unit over the multi function unit. I would agree with performance that when you get too many parts in an area that things just tend to be more unreliable.