Wiring up my 250ex

[PinkNinja]

I have to use my dryer outlet.

So I just want to know if I have the correct wires going to the right places.

on the dryer plug there are:
Black HOT (a flat blade prong)
Red HOT (a flat blade prong)
White NEUTRAL (shaped like an "L" prong)
Bare (green) GROUND (The big round prong)

On my 250ex
black and white are HOT
and the green is a GROUND
and red is for 3 PHASE...

So my wiring should be
Welder to Dryer

BLACK to BLACK
WHITE to RED
GREEN to BARE (GREEN)
RED WHITE
(not used) (not used)

I just want to know if that's correct.
(Please don't shoot me)

[performance]

Something like that. Just tape the red out of the way and find your two hots for black and white. Green is ground.

[aaxiss]

honestly if you have the room in your service (panel) I would get an electrician out there and put in a dedicated circuit and have it wired correctly. 220 is nothing to mess with. Just my .02

[A/C Guy]

220 is cake; single phase is nothing more than opposing legs of 110 each.
Yes, you are correct with your colors.
You can make an extension cord with a dryer plug on one end and the receptacle of your choice on the other end. Then you can weld outside of the laundry room. #10 with ground cord is sold by the foot and the rec and plugs are readily available at all hardware and home improvement stores.

[Wrenchtamer]

It's not cake for a novice, man. I'm finding that most people have no idea how electricity works, as if harnessed from a far away magic jelly bean field. And getting popped with a 220 line is enough to command some respect, assuming you dont have a heart condition or seizure disorder. Welcome to the forum.

[dgarnier]

so you only use 3 wires on the welder?? the 2 hots and ground? I was told I used to have to run 3 wires for 220, 2 hots and the netural, then ground to the box/conduit. The guy at the store said that a lot of places are making it 4 wires, 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground wire.

So my plan was to to use 2 hots and the neutral and then wire to green wire to the box. Sounds like there is no need for the white wire(neutral) on on the pt250ex as along as the neutral and ground are bonded at the box. If that is the case then couldnt I hook up the green wire to the withe neutral wire from the box?

[A/C Guy]

so you only use 3 wires on the welder?? the 2 hots and ground? I was told I used to have to run 3 wires for 220, 2 hots and the netural, then ground to the box/conduit. The guy at the store said that a lot of places are making it 4 wires, 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground wire.

So my plan was to to use 2 hots and the neutral and then wire to green wire to the box. Sounds like there is no need for the white wire(neutral) on on the pt250ex as along as the neutral and ground are bonded at the box. If that is the case then couldnt I hook up the green wire to the withe neutral wire from the box?

First, NEVER, NEVER, connect ground to neutral at an appliance. Never use neutral for ground and never use ground for neutral. The only time you need a neutral is when you need 110. 110 is either leg connected to neutral. 220 is one 110 leg connected to the other. Driers and stoves use the neutral for clocks, timers, control pads, etc. The 220 is for the heating elements. The welder only uses 220 and ground.

Edit to add: Read the first post. The red wire on your welder is NOT for residential use. It is only for 3 phase power. The Black and White on your cord are for your 110 volt legs; green is always ground.

Machine BLACK to wall BLACK
Machine WHITE to wall RED
Machine GREEN to wall BARE (GREEN)
Machine RED and wall WHITE are not used.

[A/C Guy]

It's not cake for a novice, man. I'm finding that most people have no idea how electricity works, as if harnessed from a far away magic jelly bean field..

Didn't you know they use red and black jelly beans for residential? Blue, orange, and yellow jelly beans are for commercial buildings only.

[performance]

The guy didn't know what he was talking about...I don't know of any welders that use a true neutral. They all use a ground. Now we have an additional bolt for offering an additional "bonded" ground to a separate stake or pipe driven into the ground to give the HF a better place to go. The red wire is for 3 phase.

BTW, Download the manual, and READ while you wait. It is covered in the manual how to and what to.

[DiabolicZ]

I have a question regarding wire size to be used.

I currently have my TIG wired straight from my electrical box to a plug from a 60amp breaker. My power cable will get warm and then really warm and then the breaker will trip. It never gets HOT. Obviously this is good but something needs to change of course.

I was going to wire in a heavier gauge wire to handle the current so it would A. Not get warm anymore and B. Not trip the breaker anymore. However, my buddy told me that larger gauge cable will not keep the breaker from tripping. It only trips when the amps of the breaker are surpassed. Sure it will solve the wire heating up, but you will still trip the breaker just as easy.

Any thoughts on this? Yes, I am aware that a larger gauge cable is required regardless.

[performance]

Get an Inverter. A larger cable on a transformer machine will give better service no doubt. As the temp heats up, amp demand will increase.

[kenwhite]

I have a question regarding wire size to be used.

I currently have my TIG wired straight from my electrical box to a plug from a 60amp breaker. My power cable will get warm and then really warm and then the breaker will trip. It never gets HOT. Obviously this is good but something needs to change of course.

I was going to wire in a heavier gauge wire to handle the current so it would A. Not get warm anymore and B. Not trip the breaker anymore. However, my buddy told me that larger gauge cable will not keep the breaker from tripping. It only trips when the amps of the breaker are surpassed. Sure it will solve the wire heating up, but you will still trip the breaker just as easy.

Any thoughts on this? Yes, I am aware that a larger gauge cable is required regardless.

If you upgrade the size of your cable, you can upgrade the breaker as well since the breaker is sized based on the cable size, cable insulation type, and length of the run.

Oh, and breakers do wear out and sometimes need to be replaced after being tripped often. So maybe your breaker is going bad.

Throw a clamp-on amp meter on each of the legs to see much current is flowing.

[DiabolicZ]

Get an Inverter. A larger cable on a transformer machine will give better service no doubt. As the temp heats up, amp demand will increase.

I did!

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...p?t=956&page=2

If you upgrade the size of your cable, you can upgrade the breaker as well since the breaker is sized based on the cable size, cable insulation type, and length of the run.

Oh, and breakers do wear out and sometimes need to be replaced after being tripped often. So maybe your breaker is going bad.

Throw a clamp-on amp meter on each of the legs to see much current is flowing.

Well the bad thing about this is that my welder is wired into the same breaker as my stove (which I think is 60amp, could be 75 though) because there is no more room on my box. I know the proper way is to have another box put it and yadda yadda but... you know.

Basically, I can't up the size of the breaker because it is rated to the wiring in the house. It could however be replaced... I have heard that breakers will get "weaker" after tripping a few times, like you said.

[kenwhite]

First, NEVER, NEVER, connect ground to neutral at an appliance. Never use neutral for ground and never use ground for neutral. The only time you need a neutral is when you need 110. 110 is either leg connected to neutral. 220 is one 110 leg connected to the other. Driers and stoves use the neutral for clocks, timers, control pads, etc. The 220 is for the heating elements. The welder only uses 220 and ground.

Edit to add: Read the first post. The red wire on your welder is NOT for residential use. It is only for 3 phase power. The Black and White on your cord are for your 110 volt legs; green is always ground.

Machine BLACK to wall BLACK
Machine WHITE to wall RED
Machine GREEN to wall BARE (GREEN)
Machine RED and wall WHITE are not used.

Correct and good advice...

[DaveO]

The clothes dryer is a 30 amp outlet, and the manual (for the PP256, at least) calls for a 50 amp outlet. Will a welder work properly out of a dryer socket? Is this bringing a knife to a gunfight?

The kitchen range / stove is 50 amps but I'm pretty sure my wife would draw the line at me welding in the kitchen.

[dgarnier]

First, NEVER, NEVER, connect ground to neutral at an appliance. Never use neutral for ground and never use ground for neutral. The only time you need a neutral is when you need 110. 110 is either leg connected to neutral. 220 is one 110 leg connected to the other. Driers and stoves use the neutral for clocks, timers, control pads, etc. The 220 is for the heating elements. The welder only uses 220 and ground.

Edit to add: Read the first post. The red wire on your welder is NOT for residential use. It is only for 3 phase power. The Black and White on your cord are for your 110 volt legs; green is always ground.

Machine BLACK to wall BLACK
Machine WHITE to wall RED
Machine GREEN to wall BARE (GREEN)
Machine RED and wall WHITE are not used.

ok now things are starting to add up in my head...so you could hook up a single phase 220 welder with just 2 hot wires and then tie the ground wire from the welder to the box/conduit? If this is the case, and I dont trust the box/conduit as a ground and I want to run a ground wire would it have the be the same gauge as the 2 hot wires(6awg)? or could I use a 10awg for the ground wire?

[dgarnier]

BTW, Download the manual, and READ while you wait. It is covered in the manual how to and what to.

I have and its was clear as mud for me

The green wire is used as the
ground and the black and white wires are
“hot” 110 V wires. To make a 220V circuit
work, two “hot” wires must be used from
separate phase 110V wires from the panel.
Do not attempt to wire the unit from the
same phase 110 V leg of the panel. Identify
your green ground wire first and properly
attach the wire to the ground prong.
The remaining black and white wires are
your 110V “hot” wires. Attach the two remaining
wires to the remaining two
prongs

[DiabolicZ]

The clothes dryer is a 30 amp outlet, and the manual (for the PP256, at least) calls for a 50 amp outlet. Will a welder work properly out of a dryer socket? Is this bringing a knife to a gunfight?

The kitchen range / stove is 50 amps but I'm pretty sure my wife would draw the line at me welding in the kitchen.

Well actually our stove is in the bedroom. This makes it easier for the wife to bring me breakfast in bed. Also I like to weld in bed too.

Ok no, the welder is not in the kitchen. The breaker box is in the garage and my welder is wired into the same breaker as the stove. I can't cook and weld at the same time. My welder is only about 8 feet from my breaker box.

[kenwhite]

For 220-240V 2-phase operation, follow the instructions given previously:

Machine BLACK to wall BLACK
Machine WHITE to wall RED
Machine GREEN to wall BARE (GREEN)
Machine RED and wall WHITE are not used

The green machine wire is connected to the welders chassis, so it must be connected to the grounded conductor, normally bare. In a 2-phase system, one of the hot wires always acts as a return for the circuit, so there is not a common/return wire. The ground wire is for safety, and for chassis noise reduction, so while a 10AWG would work for the noise aspect, it may not be able to handle the current draw before the breaker tripped if a short to chassis were to occur. Plus I am pretty sure the NEC requires the same size wire - I can look it up if you want.

Ken

[kenwhite]

I have and its was clear as mud for me

The green wire is used as the
ground and the black and white wires are
“hot” 110 V wires. To make a 220V circuit
work, two “hot” wires must be used from
separate phase 110V wires from the panel.
Do not attempt to wire the unit from the
same phase 110 V leg of the panel. Identify
your green ground wire first and properly
attach the wire to the ground prong.
The remaining black and white wires are
your 110V “hot” wires. Attach the two remaining
wires to the remaining two
prongs

What that paragraph is really trying to say is that 2 hot wires from the same phase would measure 0 VAC across them, so your box wouldn't work. Two hot wires from the opposing phases would generate 220/240 VAC so everything will work, and any hot measured to either neutral/return/ground would be 110/120 VAC...