going rate for argon and lease rates

[EchoSixMike]

It's a private owned place, and, sure, those are not retail rates. 125's are handy for truck use, I'm still spry enough to carry a 125 over my shoulder. I do need to buy a couple more tanks to get myself sorted out properly. I think I'm going to lash a 330 argon to my welding bench for my scratch start setup.

You do pay a pretty penny if you're getting the exotic stuff, 92/8 spray arc or an oxygen mix is $65 for a 330cf, don't ask me why. Because it's an exchange system, perhaps it has to do with overhead and labor costs?

Regardless, they take care of me and have pretty decent stockage, so I keep doing business there. It's Chicago, so cost of business is pretty steep. S/F....Ken M

[everlastsupport]

It's a private owned place, and, sure, those are not retail rates. 125's are handy for truck use, I'm still spry enough to carry a 125 over my shoulder. I do need to buy a couple more tanks to get myself sorted out properly. I think I'm going to lash a 330 argon to my welding bench for my scratch start setup.

You do pay a pretty penny if you're getting the exotic stuff, 92/8 spray arc or an oxygen mix is $65 for a 330cf, don't ask me why. Because it's an exchange system, perhaps it has to do with overhead and labor costs?

Regardless, they take care of me and have pretty decent stockage, so I keep doing business there. It's Chicago, so cost of business is pretty steep. S/F....Ken M

Mark love the exotoc MIG and spray. I have done it with 75/25 by mistake a couple times. Neat look. $65 is still $15 less that I pay for C25. You got a good thing there, keep them in business.

On tanks. I buy up Millers setups mostly, pull the tanks and re-sell the name brand unit and normally I get the same or more if I wait them out. Just a thought. All but one tank of mine are owner. Yea, I like the 125 being I can put it in the truck, but the price vs 250 and 330 kills you.

Would not think such a deal like that would be in Chicago. Funny thing here, Prax gets almost $30 for MC (oxy/acet) refills, Johnston Supply (AC parts place) $12. They one swap the small tanks, but for $12, I can deal with that just to have access to gas if I need it.

[Brian Ski]

Thanks, redbeard. A lot to learn. So size Q is 80cf. Tare weight is 65 lbs. I'll do some searches against size Q for approx full weight. Thanks!

Full or empty they should be the same weight... Compressed gas does not increase the weight... Now if you are using straight CO2 or Propane yes the will be heavier... Air, Argon, Oxygen (as long as it is not liquid) does not weigh almost anything. I think Acetylene will be slightly heavier but they are heavy tanks to begin with... Full of stone.

BTW I don't think the other tanks are a lot heavier.

BTW I ran across this... Not sure how accurate it is... I guess some tanks vary by manufacturer.
300- 132 lbs.
250- 108 lbs.
200- 106 lbs.
150- 65 lbs.
125- 64 lbs.
80- 49 lbs.
60- 26 lbs.
40- 23.5 lbs.
20- 10.5 lbs.

[EchoSixMike]

Not true, compressed gas tanks are noticably heavier than empty. I SCUBA dive, and your bouyancy with empy tanks is much greater than with full ones. I dive with a 120cf steel tank just to avoid having to carry 20lbs of lead since I use a drysuit. S/F.....Ken M

[Brian Ski]

Not true, compressed gas tanks are noticably heavier than empty. I SCUBA dive, and your bouyancy with empy tanks is much greater than with full ones. I dive with a 120cf steel tank just to avoid having to carry 20lbs of lead since I use a drysuit. S/F.....Ken M

Well what the heck... I see we lost our edit post function... Hmm looks like you can only edit for a few minutes...

BTW Yes you are correct... I took the weight as negligible. Everything does have a weight... I did a look up and air weighs about 1.2 oz per cubic foot. Heavier than I thought it was. So a 120 CF cylinder will weigh an extra 9 lbs... I would say not a lot. Not sure if I could tell the difference between 64 and 73 lbs... Also Argon or other gasses will vary but I could not find its weight. Nothing like the difference propane weights since it turns to liquid. I guess since it compresses and turns into a liquid at a much lower pressure.

I remember my ex bro in law needed his compressor to fill a tire at his apartment... He drained out all the air so it would be easier to carry... When he got to his apartment he found out all the circuits would trip with the compressor plugged in and he could not fill the compressor.

[undercut]

Also Argon or other gasses will vary but I could not find its weight. Nothing like the difference propane weights since it turns to liquid. I guess since it compresses and turns into a liquid at a much lower pressure.

For whatever reason, I thought Argon was liquid when compressed in the cylinder so I thought a filled cylinder would be a lot heavier. Thanks for the table. Seems there must be a few different materials used in cylinders because I found one where the same cylinders sizes were a bit heavier.

I remember my ex bro in law needed his compressor to fill a tire at his apartment... He drained out all the air so it would be easier to carry... When he got to his apartment he found out all the circuits would trip with the compressor plugged in and he could not fill the compressor.

LOL!

I don't think I'll be doing much TIG'ing so I'm wringing my wrists over buying an inexpensive and very small 20cf tank on sale now at HF and pocket the savings to refill at expensive rates or buying a much bigger 80cf and paying 4 times the price for the cylinder but getting refills cheaper. It will really depend on much I think I will use in a year (which of course I have no idea!)

Weld time should be a simple exercise in math, right? 20 cf tank / 15 cf/hr flow rate = number of welding hours (must take into account any pre/post flow) ??

[everlastsupport]

For whatever reason, I thought Argon was liquid when compressed in the cylinder so I thought a filled cylinder would be a lot heavier. Thanks for the table. Seems there must be a few different materials used in cylinders because I found one where the same cylinders sizes were a bit heavier.

You are correct.

[Brian Ski]

Seems there must be a few different materials used in cylinders because I found one where the same cylinders sizes were a bit heavier.


I don't think I'll be doing much TIG'ing so I'm wringing my wrists over buying an inexpensive and very small 20cf tank on sale now at HF and pocket the savings to refill at expensive rates or buying a much bigger 80cf and paying 4 times the price for the cylinder but getting refills cheaper. It will really depend on much I think I will use in a year (which of course I have no idea!)

Weld time should be a simple exercise in math, right? 20 cf tank / 15 cf/hr flow rate = number of welding hours (must take into account any pre/post flow) ??

Not as much as the tanks are different materials as they may be a bit thicker with manufacturing tolerances and different manufacturers have a slightly different shape of the tank. Just like if you but a sheet of 1/4" 4x8 one sheet to the next will be a couple lbs different.

Almost all my tanks are 125s easy to move around and not real heavy. (largest I can get around here without a hassle) Most of the price to fill tanks is labor. So the price for a smaller tank is about the same for a larger. That is why a larger tank you get a better bargain. Unlike a gas station where you pay the same price whether you are filling a large or small tank.

[Rambozo]

0.11135 pounds per cubic foot @ 1 atm for Argon. So 13.9 pounds for a 125 cuft. cyl. full.

[everlastsupport]

0.11135 pounds per cubic foot @ 1 atm for Argon. So 13.9 pounds for a 125 cuft. cyl. full.

Writing that down. 13lbs on something that is 100+ is better than 10% and does not help in moving it around.

[undercut]

Writing that down. 13lbs on something that is 100+ is better than 10% and does not help in moving it around.

I'm going to have to look for something smaller. Space is at a premium and I'd have to move the tank around from where I would store it to where I would use it. If things are too much a bother to do, I might fall into a bad habit, get lazy and not weld. Can't have that!

[everlastsupport]

I'm going to have to look for something smaller. Space is at a premium and I'd have to move the tank around from where I would store it to where I would use it. If things are too much a bother to do, I might fall into a bad habit, get lazy and not weld. Can't have that!

The bigger the tank, the better price on the gas. Keep that in mind.

[undercut]

Yeah, thanks. I started a spreadsheet to try to figure out how many refills a bigger tank will need to break even to a smaller, cheaper tank. The big unknown is how much TIG'ing I'll do in a year. I have no idea so it's making me go a bit crazy!

[Brian Ski]

Yeah, thanks. I started a spreadsheet to try to figure out how many refills a bigger tank will need to break even to a smaller, cheaper tank. The big unknown is how much TIG'ing I'll do in a year. I have no idea so it's making me go a bit crazy!

I am a fixit guy... I use a 125 tank and don't have many build projects... Just roll it out to weld something back together. The tank will last me the better part of a year... All depends on if I get the bug to weld and get a big project going... then it is several tanks in a year.

BTW if you buy a tank and swap them... If you start with a small tank you can pay the difference plus gas and bump up to a larger tank if you find yourself going through a lot of them. I did that with my Oxygen and acetylene tanks. If I didn't have much money I would get a fill. If I had a few more bucks I would bump up larger. It is not the most money efficient way of getting a large tank, nor is paying more money for less gas.

[undercut]

I am a fixit guy... I use a 125 tank and don't have many build projects... Just roll it out to weld something back together. The tank will last me the better part of a year... All depends on if I get the bug to weld and get a big project going... then it is several tanks in a year.

BTW if you buy a tank and swap them... If you start with a small tank you can pay the difference plus gas and bump up to a larger tank if you find yourself going through a lot of them. I did that with my Oxygen and acetylene tanks. If I didn't have much money I would get a fill. If I had a few more bucks I would bump up larger. It is not the most money efficient way of getting a large tank, nor is paying more money for less gas.

Might be a good option for me. Would buy me some time to figure out what my usage would be and save some more money for a bigger tank if I need one. Need to find some time to call around, get some definitive prices for bottles, exchanges, refills, etc. I plan to primarily stick weld with TIG to learn and for things where stick wouldn't be the best option.

[everlastsupport]

Might be a good option for me. Would buy me some time to figure out what my usage would be and save some more money for a bigger tank if I need one. Need to find some time to call around, get some definitive prices for bottles, exchanges, refills, etc. I plan to primarily stick weld with TIG to learn and for things where stick wouldn't be the best option.

If you are going to TIG and try two tanks. I would say 2x 125 tanks smallest. You will see... Or 250 and 125 and fall back on the 125.

[67cudafb]

Well I got a little lesson today from airgas in gvl. fl. I went in to exchange my 125 cu. $40 for refill and tank was 4 months out of date so it was $15 to trade so with tax $60.53. I guess need to keep eye on the date. New bottle good til 2010, Live and learn.

[everlastsupport]

Well I got a little lesson today from airgas in gvl. fl. I went in to exchange my 125 cu. $40 for refill and tank was 4 months out of date so it was $15 to trade so with tax $60.53. I guess need to keep eye on the date. New bottle good til 2010, Live and learn.

I keep the receipts. Prax has done that to me. Swap, back in a couple months, out of date (on an owner they swap you).. What... I bet it is a popular scam all over.

[NRM]

Cuda that sucks but I would take that price in a heartbeat .

[Brian Ski]

Well I got a little lesson today from airgas in gvl. fl. I went in to exchange my 125 cu. $40 for refill and tank was 4 months out of date so it was $15 to trade so with tax $60.53. I guess need to keep eye on the date. New bottle good til 2010, Live and learn.

New bottle good till 2010?????

The local place I go to as long as it has their company ring on it they don't even look at the date on it. Just swap them.