Butt Welding Aluminum Pipes

So I have had my PowerTig 250ex for a few weeks now and I can butt weld stainless and mild steel pipes together, but for the life of me I can not join two aluminum pipes together. The arc seems to want to wander between the two pipes. I am learning to weld aluminum pipes together for intercooler piping for my car. Any tips would be very helpful, I am going to go buy some flat plate from home depot and see if I can butt weld those together.

Im running about 65 amps with around 220 arc frequency and around 30% balance.

Oh also is my tungsten supposed to be balled? If I remember right Im using 2% lanthinated tungsten also.

Thank you guys for the help in advance.

No, it shouldn't be balled. It should be a point, with just the tip barely nipped off. Have you downloaded the manual? It covers this.

What size tungsten? It sounds a little low on Amps. What thickness and size of "pipe?" What kind of oxidation do you have? Are you cleaning it well with a stainless brush? What standoff are you using? Stickout? The frequency is too high, but you refer to arc freq. I don't know if its AC or Pulse you are referring to. IF it is pulse, turn it off. IF it is AC turn it down. I'd back down to 100-150.

your going to have to just get the spot where your starting hot and jam filler in, once you melt that ball down per say you should find it much easier to join the pieces as they will become molten in unison...kind of.

I may be reading the settings wrong on the welder for the Ac frequency and the Ac balance. I haven't played with the pulse settings yet, because I would like to get comfortable with welding joints before trying with pulse. I took a few pictures of my welder setting, tungsten stick out (my cup is kind of mangled from to much heat and accidentally touching the material :confused:) and the pipe thickness.

I am using 3/32 tungsten with 3/32 4043 filler rod.

I will update with pics here in a few



http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...enstickout.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...igsettings.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...ethickness.png

Does changing the setting make a difference for you? Do you here a loud buzz that is almost earsplitting at that freq? That looks like aluminum contamination though from dipping, which will form a ball.

It doesn't seem to make a difference on where the AC frequency is set and there is not an overly loud buzz. It honestly almost sounds like it was still set on DC. I will buy some aluminum plate tonight and run some passes on that at different settings and post up the pictures later this evening.

You may have the same issue wrenchtamer did. There may be a little plug on the board that is unplugged. If you not getting a loud buzz, then it is in DC+....OHHH Wait...
Is your torch in DC NEGATIVE hole?

I did some mild steel today and there is a slight difference in the sound between aluminum and steels. My torch is in the DC Negative hole. I am going to try a completely different piece of tungsten since ive been using the same one for aluminum and steels with grinding in between.

You should hear a big difference in sound between DC on steel vs AC on aluminum, especially with the AC freq. turned up that high as your photo shows. On DC the arc should be fairly quite, but on AC at that freq. you should be hearing a very high pitched buzzing sound. Also your post flow time looks a little low, although it may be the camera angle.

Yeah I just tried some aluminum an there is an increase of sound but not by much. I will search for the thread with the similar problem by wrenchtamer.


So I went back and listened to the videos that Jody posted on welding tips and tricks for the aluminum settings in part 5 and my welder in AC does not sound anything like the video. It kind of sounds like a louder hissing sound is the best way to explain it.

Contact me or Mike and we will be glad to help you. Likely it is a loose plug on the top board.

ok That sounds good. I will try to call sometime this week. I will also open up the welder and get some pics to post up here so everyone can see the internals of the welders.



So I got bored and decided to open up the welder and get some pictures. Maybe these will help someone in the future.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4613.jpg
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Wondering if you could take a picture of the back of the quick connect for the gas line on the front of the machine. If not, could you tell me what kind of hose is connected to it, and how its connected? (Rubber hose, plastic, hose clamp. crimped...ect.) Thats if you can even get to it to see it. Wow, what a wiring nightmare inside there.
Thanks

On the AC freq knob, moving it from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock should change the arc sound a lot.

I can see in the pictures, a bend in the top rail. Looks like it was dropped and hopefully just popped the AC switch plug off like Wrenchtamer.

Call into support and we will check it out. Leave the cover off and the machine off for 2 hours before calling.

From my conversations with mike have given me the impression that that high frequency spout shouldnt be tie strapped to the flyback transformer like that. It's oe of the first things he told me too look for. It's the red wire on the passenger side of the machine next to the inverted transformer you see with the l shaped bracket. that wire is the spark output to the high frequency points. I would check to see if it is arcing out there. and the plug that was off on mine is not easy to find. it's on the top board near the fron kind of in the center. a three wire plug sits transverse to the body of the unit. its kind of hidden up near the front. i had the cover off myself and didnt catch it until I took it to mark.

here I took your pics and circled the problem areas I noticed. Minus the big bend in the suspension rail. check with mike or ark about the flyback transformer thing first tho. It might not be a problem unless it is arcing out.

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Originally Posted by Rugar

Wondering if you could take a picture of the back of the quick connect for the gas line on the front of the machine. If not, could you tell me what kind of hose is connected to it, and how its connected? (Rubber hose, plastic, hose clamp. crimped...ect.) Thats if you can even get to it to see it. Wow, what a wiring nightmare inside there.
Thanks

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Here are some pictures of the gas fitting on the case. To me it looks like the black rubber hose is held on with a metal crimp to keep the line from blowing off. Hope these pics work for you. If not let me know and I can try to get different ones.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4618.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4617.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4616.jpg

So I went looking around the upper board of the welder and noticed that a connector did not look seated, so I made sure the connector was fully seated. Hopefully this was the issue with my AC not working correctly. I have some pics to show the area I am talking about.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4620.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4619.jpg

That's the one. It controls your AC switching (for a lack of better terminology). Without that plugged in, it will be stuck on DC positive. That was the loose plug on wrench tamer's unit as well. Not sure why we have seen it loose on two units like this close together. I know I haven't seen any, maybe Mike has, or Ray. Move the copper strip coming out the bottom over so it doesn't touch the wire of the transformer (black thing, red wire pic 4)

I will try some aluminum later tonight after I get the welder all back together and post up if it made a difference. Thanks for all of your help.

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Originally Posted by drifterific

Here are some pictures of the gas fitting on the case. To me it looks like the black rubber hose is held on with a metal crimp to keep the line from blowing off. Hope these pics work for you. If not let me know and I can try to get different ones.

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Perfect! Thanks for taking the time to take the photos and post them for me.

I hope you have found your problem. You will know right away when AC kicks in for sure.

Hey Mark,

This is only the second one (shipping bounce maybe). The only one I had was when Brian (aka Wrenchtamer) came to you and I told you to trace that switch and you found the plug was off (I should have got that on the phone; sorry Brian). That is the only one I have had, so looks like two now.

And he liked the class in welding you offered so I hope it was worth his drive to you and I know I owe ya on that one.

It's "Christmas" time and shipping has always been rough on us, it looks like this year, it's not bad at all. Last year, cracked bezels, bent cases.... So I can not complain.

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Originally Posted by Rugar

Perfect! Thanks for taking the time to take the photos and post them for me.

I hope you have found your problem. You will know right away when AC kicks in for sure.

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Yeah its no problem, Im glad that I could help you out. I will be putting the unit back together here shortly after I finish writting my paper for school. I will report back the findings after its all back together.

So I finally got the chance today to put the welder back together and got a chance to test it out and now everything sounds like it does in Jody's videos. Thank you for all of your help. now I will get some correct practice welding aluminum after I get some more gas tomorrow. Also another question I have is should I use 2% ceriated tungsten for aluminum or just stick with the 2% thoriated tungsten.

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Originally Posted by drifterific

So I finally got the chance today to put the welder back together and got a chance to test it out and now everything sounds like it does in Jody's videos. Thank you for all of your help. now I will get some correct practice welding aluminum after I get some more gas tomorrow. Also another question I have is should I use 2% ceriated tungsten for aluminum or just stick with the 2% thoriated tungsten.

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Awesome! Glad it was a simple fix.
I used 2% thoriated when I first got mine and didn't like it. But it was the cheap Radnor brand from Airgas (guess I should say expensive in price from Airgas, but cheap in the quality area), but it could have just been me just starting out. Since I have used Tri-mix (which is a hybrid mix) and 2% Lathonaided, both from Diamond Ground Products, and just recently Arctime from Arczone which is also a hybrid mix, and I cant really tell much difference between the last three. Once I get more experience I might, but for now they all seem fine. I'm going to try the 2% thoriated again now though just to compare it, since I'm welding more now then grinding electrodes like I was a month ago. LMAO

Gerald, the turning point for me was what I found out about cleaning Al. Those cheap Radnors turned out to be not that bad after all.

About any combination will be fine. Thoriated has been the standard for years, and still in most tests, show the best HF starting characteristics and general overall stability. Ceriated is something that MIller recommends on their products, however, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Lanthanated works well in ours, as well as Thoriated. I use thoriated. I guess if someone else was paying for it, I'd get lanthanated.

Its a common misconception to believe that the whole electrode is made of this as a "alloy". In fact the outside is actually tungsten, and a small shaft or core of thorium runs down the middle.

Here's some useful reading from a site "promoting" its own product, but cites from reliable sources, though it is highly summarized:
http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/tung...ioactivity.htm

I went ahead and just stuck with the thoriated tungsten. Now that my AC switch is working I am getting good result. I was able to but weld some aluminum pipe together.

I did have a question though, will I eventually beable to tack weld aluminum together without filler rod? I saw my friend do it on his syncrowave but it would break easily when we would move the pipes to fully weld them.

But everything is working great and I hope the pictures of the connector will help anyone else that may have this problem in the future.

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Originally Posted by drifterific

I did have a question though, will I eventually beable to tack weld aluminum together without filler rod? I saw my friend do it on his syncrowave but it would break easily when we would move the pipes to fully weld them.

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If the two base/parent metals are tight to each other (no big gap) and clean, you can tack them with a TIG by flowing them together. The thicker the better.

Run the heat back and forth and they will flow together. If one side is thinner you will want to keep more heat on the thicker side. When you see both side are melted/liquid normally they will pool into each other, use the heat from the arc to bring the together and make the tack as long as you need. They will follow the heat.

Thanks for the tip mike. I was able to sucessfully weld an intake pipe together that had a decent sized gap. Of course I got to excited and didn't watch my heat as well as i should. But this was on a practice pipe that ive been running passes on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drifterific

Thanks for the tip mike. I was able to sucessfully weld an intake pipe together that had a decent sized gap. Of course I got to excited and didn't watch my heat as well as i should. But this was on a practice pipe that ive been running passes on.

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Aluminum can be a pain when you first start. The pool is harder to see than steel and SS. Thin aluminum adds another level to it. It just takes time at it.

Glad to hear you are getting there.

I would like to thank everyone that helped me out. I can now weld two pices of aluminum pipe together now and tack them with minimal filler rod. I still need to work on my welds but I am showing pic now that I can weld aluminum together. I will keep practicing on this piece of pipe till there is no more room left to weld lol. I think my welder is a bit close and blowing out my argon so I need to move the table further away from the welding stand.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_4640.jpg
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Originally Posted by drifterific

I think my welder is a bit close and blowing out my argon so I need to move the table further away from the welding stand.

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We have a big fan in there to keep the IGBT's and electronics happy. But you are right, do not point the welder at what you are welding. It will blow the argon away for sure.

Looks like you are getting there and pretty fast.

Thanks mike. It seems that the welds lok way better when I pick up my travel speed. I am still practicing to see what works the best for me. I know I'll get it down with the more his time I get.

i love seeing threads like this, where the OP gets the help he needs, and has sucsess doing what he/she wanted to do.
i absolutly cannot wait to join the crowd!!!

Nice looking welds. This is the type of material for which I am looking into a tig to weld. I just need to decide on either the PowerTig or the PowerPro.

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Originally Posted by jetjoe

Nice looking welds. This is the type of material for which I am looking into a tig to weld. I just need to decide on either the PowerTig or the PowerPro.

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dont know about nice looking welds but maybe a start in the right direction ....
you need to get some penetration on the toes of those welds they are COLD weld being only on the surface of the base material
weld it HOT and Fast its not steel

Well since it is his first was his first attempt at aluminum, I was taking it easy on him.

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Originally Posted by performance

Its a common misconception to believe that the whole electrode is made of this as a "alloy". In fact the outside is actually tungsten, and a small shaft or core of thorium runs down the middle.

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I believe that the above statement is in error. Please see the link I have added from a tungsten manufacturer: (Particularly section 2.3.1)

http://www.diamondground.com/TungstenGuidebook2011.pdf

Thurmond