New WP20 Torch

UPS delivered my new WP20 Flex Neck Torch last night. I ordered it on Tues. from Alex. Fast delivery as usual.
First impressions out of the box. This thing is WAY smaller then the stock torch that came with my 250ex, and the lead is much more flexible as well. It should give me much more torch control then the big bulky one with stiff a lead that came stock.
That being said we have a problem Houston. After talking with both Mark and Alex, I was told this would be a plug and play hookup. In theory it is, but the water line running from the torch through the torch cover is WAY to small for the barbed fitting for the quick disconnect on my Everlast water cooler. The hose I believe is 5/16. Included with the torch was a separate length of 5/8 hose. Since this extra hose was included, I'm guessing Everlast knows that the hose installed on the torch is not the correct size. The problem I have with this is if I take the torch apart and replace the hose with the one supplied separately, I will have to use a hose clamp to install it on the torch end. I'm not willing to use a hose clamp on the torch end. This end need to be crimped on for a good seal to prevent a water leak. I get a slight drip every now and then from where the water hoses are hose clamped on the quick disconnects to the water cooler. No big deal, when they leak a little I just tighten the clamp a little more and the drip stops. But how are you supposed to deal with a drip inside the torch, and then have to take it back apart every time to fix the problem? Or not even know you have a leak till it gets so bad water is leaking from the torch cover end. The other issue is that the extra hose that was shipped, is around 3" to short, so its not usable anyway.
Its Sat. so I cant call Everlast for a solution. Curious as to how they want to handle this. Seems like they will have to change the hose themselves before shipping these torch's to make them a true Plug and Play item for their machines.
Waiting for a solution as I really want to try out this new torch.

PS. Also supplied was two #5 cups, one long back cap, 1 short back cap, 1 collet body, and two collets stamped 2.0? The collets are to big to fit inside the collet body. No big deal on the consumables, as I was already told that other brands from my LWS would fit these torch's. But just thought I would though in the fact about mismatched consumables parts that are supplied.

Gerald

This is our first shipment, so there may be some bugs. The torch is a good quality torch. The collets may actually fit 2 sizes of tungsten, depending upon how they are split down the side. If they won't fit the collet holder then that is another issue.

Yes, the quick connects will have to be adapted, as I think I did say it did not have the water fittings installed on the end. However, they make adapters so you can bush up the fittings. It should be a quick fix to bush up the lines. A good quality hose clamp should not ever leak...with that said, I know the hose clamp quality is not the best on some of the things we have. The factory has changed the way the water cooler connects since the order was placed.

Please post pictures of what you have. I am thinking it is only a matter of getting a simple adapter. The original lines on the water cooled torches did not match before and always needed to be extended, and adapted. So I am not sure there is a real problem with the very smallest bit of ingenuity being exercised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

This is our first shipment, so there may be some bugs. The torch is a good quality torch. The collets may actually fit 2 sizes of tungsten, depending upon how they are split down the side. If they won't fit the collet holder then that is another issue
.
Not sure what size tungsten the collets fit. I'm guessing 1/16 but I don't have any in that size to try. All I have is 3/32. The collets definitely wont fit the collet holder.

Yes, the quick connects will have to be adapted, as I think I did say it did not have the water fittings installed on the end. However, they make adapters so you can bush up the fittings. It should be a quick fix to bush up the lines. A good quality hose clamp should not ever leak...with that said, I know the hose clamp quality is not the best on some of the things we have. The factory has changed the way the water cooler connects since the order was placed.

Yes you did tell me that the water fitting ends did not come with it. When ordering from Alex I got him to send me the disconnects. Problem is they only sent me one. And yes Ive been using the supplied clamps from you guys. Was waiting for the new torch's to come out for a more permanent solution. Been thinking about taking everything to a hose shop and having the ends crimped on. Not liking the idea of a extra connection to bush up to the correct size hose, but this may be the only solution for now. Another concern I have is the water cooler having to push all that water pressure through that small hose. Do you think this will over work the pump? I'm thinking it may be best to take the torch apart and have the larger hose crimped on the torch end. Thoughts? I will wait till my welding cart gets here Tues. to get the hoses to the exact length I need for a clean install since the lengths need to be modded anyway.

Please post pictures of what you have. I am thinking it is only a matter of getting a simple adapter. The original lines on the water cooled torches did not match before and always needed to be extended, and adapted. So I am not sure there is a real problem with the very smallest bit of ingenuity being exercised.

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I will take some pictures and post them up today.

Your local Lowes, or Home Depot should have enough brass fittings to make a adapter.

No,
The lines are fine. Don't change anything in that regard. There isn't any problem with that at all. This is what its designed for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slick

Your local Lowes, or Home Depot should have enough brass fittings to make a adapter.

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Adapter is no problem. I'm more concerned over the high pump pressure to push the water thru the small hose without burning up the pump over time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rugar

Adapter is no problem. I'm more concerned over the high pump pressure to push the water thru the small hose without burning up the pump over time.

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is the coolant under that much pressure? I would think you'd want it at a low flow, and low pressure so it takes the heat with it.

Right now I cool my torch with a barely cracked garden hose, and the return empties out the window :D

A Mark has stated
the Inlet and return Water lines are the correct size and type required for this Torch and no upsizing is required or indeed recommended.
This particular Torch Model was tested and evaluated by a highly respected member of the Welding community and his opinions ( at least for me have a lot of value ) We decided to ask this person to do the evaluation due to his considerable knowledge concerning all aspects of equipment used in the welding Industry. In fact just to throw out another name here Miller recently had him evaluate there new wireless Foot Control.
His thoughts on the Quality of the Torch where very positive and reinforced our own opinions on them.
Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slick

is the coolant under that much pressure? I would think you'd want it at a low flow, and low pressure so it takes the heat with it.

Right now I cool my torch with a barely cracked garden hose, and the return empties out the window :D

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According to the info for the cooler it has 57 PSI max.. Not sure how much the smaller hose raises the working pressure. Mark says its fine so I will leave the hoses as is.

For anyone getting one of these torch's, you need a 1/8" barbed fitting for the torch side, and a 3/16" barbed for the cooler side to fit the extra 5/8" OD hose they supplied with the torch. I couldn't find a double barbed fitting in the size I needed so I used a 1/8" barb with a male fitting on the other end, and a 3/16" barbed with a female fitting and coupled them together. I still need to find some smaller hose clamps to make it look a little more sanitary, and may still have the hoses crimped, but this will do for now.

After getting it all hooked up I sprayed soapy water on the gas fitting and it leaks badly. The bubbles are blowing out from the coupler, not from the crimped hose. Ive plugged it in & out several times, and twisted and wiggled but I cant get a sealed fit. I know its the torch side with the problem, because I did the same test when I first got the welder and hooked up the gas line, and also tested the stock torch again today just to be sure.

Size comparison picture of the stock 250EX torch and the new WP20.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0642.jpg

Adapter for fitting the new torch to the 300 cooler.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0645.jpg

Picture showing how bad the Argon leak is.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0649.jpg

Argon leak problem found. It appears that Everlast uses two different quick connect types, as they should, (the two shouldn't be able to plug in at all and interchange with each other IMO) one for gas and a slightly different style for water. It appears a wrong male quick connect was fitted onto the gas line on the WP20 torch (at least on the one I received). The one on my torch is identical to the ones that came with my water cooler. The one on my stock torch that came with mine is slightly different. You can see the difference between the two gas connects which explains the leak.

The one on the left is on the WP20, and the same as my water connections.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0658.jpg

rugar,

It also appears you have the input and output reversed. The out put should be the reinforced hose. The input should be the thinner one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

rugar,

It also appears you have the input and output reversed. The out put should be the reinforced hose. The input should be the thinner one.

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Heres a better picture of how its hooked up.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0661.jpg

So your saying the water needs to flow through the center of the lead first, and then exit the torch to the return side? If I swap the lines, then the larger hose will be the pressure side instead of the return. If I take the "Input" line off and turn on the cooler, water will flow from the line. Nothing that I could find on instructions to really tell you how they are supposed to be hooked up.

From that angle it looks right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rugar

Argon leak problem found. It appears that Everlast uses two different quick connect types, as they should, (the two shouldn't be able to plug in at all and interchange with each other IMO) one for gas and a slightly different style for water. It appears a wrong male quick connect was fitted onto the gas line on the WP20 torch (at least on the one I received). The one on my torch is identical to the ones that came with my water cooler. The one on my stock torch that came with mine is slightly different. You can see the difference between the two gas connects which explains the leak.

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:confused:

if you need a good hose clamp that won't leak go to your local auto parts store and buy some fuel injection hose clamps. they have a little bit different design and tighten from both sides instead of a traditional worm clamp. Still dont think it would be suitable for the inside of a torch but elsewhere they are a good replacement.

Just thought I’d share this, it’s a tool made locally that used SS safety wire to “make” any size clamp, makes a very neat and strong connection if done right.

http://www.akcooltools.com/clamptite.html

Can we stop posting about the cool wire wrap tool? Get a hose clamp.

Sorry Mike must be my CRS kicking in. (Can't remember STUFF)

They say your memory is the first thing to go, eh and I forget what the second thing was.

But hey it works good for me, 0 failures.

Hose clamp is cheaper too. I like the tool, but if they need it working that day...

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

Hose clamp is cheaper too. I like the tool, but if they need it working that day...

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Hose clamps would be my choice for quick repair jobs, you know the ones that seem to be there forever. LOL...

I actually prefer using ferrels. I bought the crimping tool and a spool of hose a while back and I've been building up my fitting box a little at a time. Most of you just get one hose and call it good. I use stationary tanks now and I'm going to be making up a bunch of different length hoses.

I don't think they're all that much better than a hose clamp but they look better.

I'm curious about the fittings in post #11, (this thread). Looks like they were both supposed to be for a gas QD, but the one on the left was machined out of spec. and got through QC.
This bothers me as the WP9 torch that was sent has the same gas QD as the left in the pic, while the gas QDs on the stock WP26 and plasma torch are the same as the fitting on the right, (which I believe to be the proper one).
January 20th marks 4 months that the PowerPro 205 unit has sat here in the box waiting for parts so it can get up on the Everlast cart for initial test, and it would be good to start out with proper fittings...

Rengaw,
What parts is it?

Hi Mark,
The welder was delivered Sept. 20, and the cart was to follow in 2 weeks. It, however, was not delivered until Nov. 16, and is still missing the "support of gas bottle" #10. Oleg was going to have the manufacturer mail one, but that didn't happen. Since I bought the largest bottle that can be owned, I need someone to lift it for me due to disability. Has to be stable in the cart for same reason. Shop has no room to setup welder near bottle.
The head on the WP26 torch was broken, and the replacement sent has the wrong, (3/8") dinse connector.
The WP9 torch was sent without cons and the defective male gas QD.
Also still waiting on a new front bezel, (one on machine damaged in shipping).
Called and sent E-mails.... Still waiting.
There are lots of folks waiting on this shipment, so I am hoping the parts for me are in the container.

Rengaw,
While you need those parts on the list you gave should not prevent operation of the unit nor should it hold you up, unless lifting the bottle onto the cart...and if you can't get any help, maybe you can roll the bottle up onto a ramp and onto the cart.
1). Th
e chains will hold the unit's bottle up and provide stability. The cradle merely centers it and makes things a little more convenient...
2). The torch head changes out easily from two points... 1) the head, just like ANY TIG torch screws onto the cable. Simply open up the torch and swap the head...about 5 minutes or less....OR pull the rubber cover off the DINSE connector, and loosen the allen screw that hold the cable in, and do it in reverse but swap it to the larger DINSE on the original torch.
3) The WP9 quick connect can be easily changed out and swapped with your broken torches. The cons, are available locally....and you should invest in an extra set any way because one drop of the torch and the cons are toast any way.

4) The bezel unless shattered into many pieces will be fine until you receive the new one.

A little work, but you should be able to have things going.

But

I haven't received any emails recently from you, nor calls that I can remember. You definitely need and deserve what you paid for. I think we can resolve these issues fairly quickly, but I have not known that any issues are unresolved. I forwarded your information about this to the powers that be. EXT 202 takes care of these matters, so when you follow up, be sure to talk to that department. Or try emailing status@everlastwelders.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

2). The torch head changes out easily from two points... 1) the head, just like ANY TIG torch screws onto the cable. Simply open up the torch and swap the head...about 5 minutes or less....OR pull the rubber cover off the DINSE connector, and loosen the allen screw that hold the cable in, and do it in reverse but swap it to the larger DINSE on the original torch.

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Did some searching, and rather than start a new post, I thoght I would ask the question here.
Are the threaded connections on the end of the cable to the actual torch body "industry standard"?
Also, are they standard across the range of sizes of torch bodies?

Basically, can an air cooled 17 body from a different manufacturer (weld craft for example) fit on the cables that come with the Everlast torch?
Here's another one...can a 9 series air cooled torch be used on a 17 series cable? (Understanding that the torch body wodul be the limiter as far as current, just wondering if the cable will physically fit...)

According to this tap from Arc Zone, it appears the threads are standard:
http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=4893

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sportbike

Did some searching, and rather than start a new post, I thoght I would ask the question here.
Are the threaded connections on the end of the cable to the actual torch body "industry standard"?

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It did seem to be on the WP17 that came with my "Super200P" I bought a few years ago. There are basically three different common fitting sizes for "inert arc" fittings. They are called "A", "B", and "C".
A-SIZE: 3/8"-24
B-SIZE: 5/8"-18
C-SIZE: 7/8"-14
The WP9 and WP17 have an "A" size fitting under the handle. The WP26 has a "B" size fitting under the handle.

[Edit: just checked the fitting underneath the handle on my Everlast WP17 TIG torch. Definitely a 3/8-24, AKA "inert arc A" size fitting.]

I can't speak for the newer/alternate Everlast torches, but I would guess they would also use industry standard fitting sizes underneath their handles as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sportbike

Also, are they standard across the range of sizes of torch bodies?

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Not necessarily. See previous answer above. WP26 has a larger size fitting under the handle (and a larger handle to go with it.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sportbike

Basically, can an air cooled 17 body from a different manufacturer (weld craft for example) fit on the cables that come with the Everlast torch?

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Yes. At least as far as the WP17 that came with my Super200P was concerned, it used an industry stand "A" fitting under the handle.

The machine end fitting however was *not* industry standard. It had very close, but not quite the same, Metric, M16x1.5mm threads rather than the industry standard 5/8"x18.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sportbike

Here's another one...can a 9 series air cooled torch be used on a 17 series cable? (Understanding that the torch body wodul be the limiter as far as current, just wondering if the cable will physically fit...)

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Yes! Weldcraft shows the same part number for the one-piece 12 foot long power cable (a "57Y01") on a WP9 as they do for a WP17. The handles are also both the same part number. The only difference between the WP9 and WP17 is the torch head (and of course all the consumables that get loaded into the torch head are different: the collet, collet body, back cap, etc.)
http://www.weldcraft.com/pdfs/WP17ENG.pdf
http://www.weldcraft.com/pdfs/WP9ENG.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sportbike

According to this tap from Arc Zone, it appears the threads are standard:
http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=4893
John

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The smaller size tap that is included in the kit linked above will fit WP9/20 torch heads (inside where the back cap and collet body screws into) and the larger size is for the WP17/18/26 torches.

Here are some related posts I've made about TIG torch fittings, parts, and comparisons of different torch types you might want to check out:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...=8265#post8265
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...=6264#post6264

Thanks for the Reply Jakeru. That sounds good. I was fairly confident in what you noted, from looking at the torches at work, but was unsure what mystery might show up in the box with the welder (specs on the torches, hoses, and consumables that actually come with the welders are a bit "vague").

My intent is to get a smaller torch body so that I can manipulate easier and work better with the thin wall chromoly tubing that I use for brackets / components for bikes. 90% of the work will likely be with thin wall chromoly, stainless, and aluminum, all under 1/8" for the most part. There are some welds may need some higher amperage, and of course, there will always be new things to weld as they pop up.

John

We are putting in a new order for "standard" torches that can be bought additionally for the units, along with a few extra cons to go with them. We are getting a limited amount, and if people wish to "pre order", to give us an idea how many we will need plus the standard stock, it would help.

We are ordering straight handled 26's 18's, 17's, 17v's (for power arcs),9's, and 20's, all with flex heads. The 18's and 26's we are ordering have a much smaller profile on the handle, so don't expect the bulkiness IF you need the power capability of those torches....and the flex head will make a huge difference as well. The 9's and 20's are smaller and have limited power range, even with the water cooled capability of the 20. We are concentrating the order heavily towards the longer 25 ft lengths as well, since that seems a common complaint. But standard 15 ft lengths will be in the order as well.

Once you get more information, please post up the details of the torch and cable options. I personally would prefer to just swap out the torch body from the cable, as it is more cost effective and takes up less space to have a few torch bodies rather than the whole torch and cable.

As noted, my requirements lean towards the small side, and from what I gather, the torch that usually" comes with the 200DX (as well as others) is a bit bulky.

While I am typing, what size is the torch that comes with the 200DX? The spec sheets are pretty much all over the map as far as consistency, noting that a 12ft water cooled WP-18 torch comes with the 200DX (maybe it does, but I would assume it is an air cooled torch)

actually, the 26 comes with it. Just as bulky though. 12 ft