Help welding thin Aluminum PowerTig 250EX

Trying to weld pieces of 1/16"x1/2"x1/2" angle. I am having problems getting a stable arc.

I have no issues with high frequency start as it well initiate an arc with ease. It seems as though, when running low amperage the arc will begin to pop and crack.
They best way i can describe it is sputtering. I hqve noticed it will begin to sputter and pop right as the weld pool forms or right before.

While it's sputtering, i can hear the high frequency buzzing coming from the machine. Similar to the sound made when first initiating a spark.

If anyone can help i would greatley appreciate it.

Setup details.

Powertig 250ex

Cleaned aluminum with stainless brush and acetone.
I've tried adjusting gas flow from as little as 8cfh to 20cfh
Tried a watercooled 20 torch and an air cooled 9 series. Same problem with both.
Tried both the foot pedal and the torch mounted switch. Same problems.
Lanthinated tungsten. Sizes .040 and 1/16". Same problem with both.
Using gas lenses with a size 4 and 5 cup. Problem still present with each.
20-35% balance. Makes no difference in regards to sputtering.
I tried running the frequency from 60Hz all the way up to 200Hz. No change in problem.
Pre flow was tried at .5 all the way up to 2 seconds. No change in problem.
Post flow has been tried at 2 seconds all the way to 5 seconds. Problem still exist.
When using foot pedal, up slope, down slope, start amps, end amps each turned all the way down.

Ive also tried using varying pulse settings with no change in the issue I'm experiencing.

For those of you who are more experienced than myself, is it me or the machine? Anything i can try to look at on the machine to verify no problems exist?


Thanks in advanced foe any help.

.062 does take practice. What arc length are you holding? What amperage are you running? It sounds like you might be losing the arc and the HF kicks in to restart it. Typically that is from too long an arc length or a draft blowing away your shielding gas. How are things with thicker material? 1/8" is a good thickness for learning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rambozo

.062 does take practice. What arc length are you holding? What amperage are you running? It sounds like you might be losing the arc and the HF kicks in to restart it. Typically that is from too long an arc length or a draft blowing away your shielding gas. How are things with thicker material? 1/8" is a good thickness for learning.

---

I've tried really close and kinda far on yhe arc length...and everything in between. I notice the sputtering much more once I'm below 50amps. The machine does fine on 1/8" plate. I can run perfect beads on higher amps. As soon as i turn the amperage below 50 it begins to sputter. Even on thicker material. No drafts in the garage as there are no windows, doors are closed and no heat/ac running.

Could it possibly be moisture in the gas cylinder? I've been running on the same 80cf cylinder for well over a year.

Could be bad gas, but not very likely if the arc is nice and clean over 50 amps. No soot on the welds on thicker plate?
One thing you can do to get you over 50 amps on that material is to move up to a 3/32" tungsten and adjust your AC balance more towards 50%. That will make it so you need more amps to get the same heat in the part. But it's more of a kludge and you shouldn't have to do that. But you can see if things smooth out with the increased amperage. It sounds like something is a little unstable at low amperages. Maybe call tech support and see what they say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rambozo

Could be bad gas, but not very likely if the arc is nice and clean over 50 amps. No soot on the welds on thicker plate?
One thing you can do to get you over 50 amps on that material is to move up to a 3/32" tungsten and adjust your AC balance more towards 50%. That will make it so you need more amps to get the same heat in the part. But it's more of a kludge and you shouldn't have to do that. But you can see if things smooth out with the increased amperage. It sounds like something is a little unstable at low amperages. Maybe call tech support and see what they say.

---

Yep. No soot. I'm fairly certain something is wrong with the machine. I can hear a buzzing sound coming from the machine whenever it sputters. It isn't the sound high frequency makes. When i first bought it, i was able to see sparking through the vents in the case of the welder. Anytime i saw the sparking in the machine i also heard the same sounding noise as I'm currently experiencing when it sputters.

I know it isn't the gas. I exchanged the cylinder for a new one this afternoon and I'm still having the same issue.

Guess I'll be calling tech support in a bit. Super frustrating.

The buzzing would be the HF. It doesn't sound like other units. Try using the torch switch and see if it clears up. If it does, it's probably the foot pedal.

Just got off the phone with twch support and was told the PowerTig 250ex only goes down to 20amps in a/c and that something is wrong with my welder. He said when i flip the rocker to go from dc to ac and with the amperage knob turned all the way down, the amp display should switch from around 6 amps to 20amps because the 250Ex doesn't go lower than 20amps in A/C.

Is this true? The advertised output rating is 5 amps minimum in both ac and dc. I specifically purchased the Powertig250ex rather than other models becuase of the lower amperage ability in a/c.

Can someone from Everlast Tech Support or customer service please chime in here.

I've already tried the torch switch. It didn't make a difference in regards to the sputtering/popping

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Just got off the phone with twch support and was told the PowerTig 250ex only goes down to 20amps in a/c and that something is wrong with my welder. He said when i flip the rocker to go from dc to ac and with the amperage knob turned all the way down, the amp display should switch from around 6 amps to 20amps because the 250Ex doesn't go lower than 20amps in A/C.

Is this true? The advertised output rating is 5 amps minimum in both ac and dc. I specifically purchased the Powertig250ex rather than other models becuase of the lower amperage ability in a/c.

Can someone from Everlast Tech Support or customer service please chime in here.

---

My 5 year old 250EX goes down to 6 amps on the display in both AC and DC. I just went out and fired it up and turned it all the way down to 6 amps on DC, then flipped the switch to AC and the display still showed 6 amps. Mine will stack mini dimes on the bottom of a beer can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Just got off the phone with twch support and was told the PowerTig 250ex only goes down to 20amps in a/c and that something is wrong with my welder. He said when i flip the rocker to go from dc to ac and with the amperage knob turned all the way down, the amp display should switch from around 6 amps to 20amps because the 250Ex doesn't go lower than 20amps in A/C.

Is this true? The advertised output rating is 5 amps minimum in both ac and dc. I specifically purchased the Powertig250ex rather than other models becuase of the lower amperage ability in a/c.

Can someone from Everlast Tech Support or customer service please chime in here.

---

No. It is not true. It is 5 with an allowance of 2 to 3 amps either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

No. It is not true. It is 5 with an allowance of 2 to 3 amps either way.

---

Not sure why i was told otherwise. I was also given a return authorization number to return the machine for a warranty claim based off the amperage not changing to a higher number when switched to a/c.

Can someone else from tech support assist me? This seems like a huge oversight. I was also told i was using too small tungsten. I've tried everything from .040" all the way up to 1/8" and still have the same problems. I've also tried varying the stickout amd arc length in hopes of figuring this out. Still no change.

Also, i've posted a couple videos to better show the problem i'm experiencing.

https://youtu.be/NqPRyyU4LYc

https://youtu.be/kuQYbUa5E4Q

From the video, you are holding way too far off the metal. That is a huge arc gap. That is a primary issue. You are overheating your tungsten in the next one. And you are welding indirectly through it which makes low amp welding really dicey. You have to attach directly, and clean the metal better. Sounds like you have too low of frequency as well.

Josh, been checking on your unit and trying to figure out the confusion. Don't worry, you WILL be taken care of. I need to fill in a couple of blanks here. When did you buy it? Where are you located? And can you post up a picture of your spec panel ( the graph on the side of the welder)?

If it is one of the new digital units, it should be an easy fix with the programming.
250EX's are spec'd to weld down to 5 amps...digital or not. (Plus/minus 2-3 amps).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

Josh, been checking on your unit and trying to figure out the confusion. Don't worry, you WILL be taken care of. I need to fill in a couple of blanks here. When did you buy it? Where are you located? And can you post up a picture of your spec panel ( the graph on the side of the welder)?

---

Welder was purchased in 02/15/2015. Was purchased under my g/f's name as it was a surprise gift. Order #59648366. This is the 3rd time I've used it in a/c since owning it. The first time trying something this thin in a/c. I welded razor blades together in DC so I'm fairly confident in my abilities and knowledge with setup.

I assure you the arc gap is not excessively large. If for some reason it appears that way, it must be attributed to trying to capture the unusual problems I'm experiencing on film. I would not contact external assistance over something that would be considered a rookie mistake. That is one of the very first things i ruled out of the equation.

This is beyond my realm of knowledge. I tig weld every day as part of my scope of responsibilities as a Maintenance technician at a major auto manufacturer. I've tried everything that would be considered elementary to most of the welding community.

http://s18.postimg.org/ncleduucp/20160407_234137.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/unzqsbl7t/20160407_031704.jpg

Frequency was set to around 120hz in the videos as you can see in the photo above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Welder was purchased in 02/15/2015. Was purchased under my g/f's name as it was a surprise gift. Order #59648366. This is the 3rd time I've used it in a/c since owning it. The first time trying something this thin in a/c. I welded razor blades together in DC so I'm fairly confident in my abilities and knowledge with setup.

I assure you the arc gap is not excessively large. If for some reason it appears that way, it must be attributed to trying to capture the unusual problems I'm experiencing on film. I would not contact external assistance over something that would be considered a rookie mistake. That is one of the very first things i ruled out of the equation.

This is beyond my realm of knowledge. I tig weld every day as part of my scope of responsibilities as a Maintenance technician at a major auto manufacturer. I've tried everything that would be considered elementary to most of the welding community.

---

In the video the standoff was greater than the diameter of the tungsten by several times. A rule of thumb is to keep your standoff approximately the distance of the diameter of the tungsten. I have seen lots of videos like this and learned how to judge the distances. The stickout was quite small as well. You could use a little more stickout if that was an issue. But you also did not have a direct connection with your work, something I have personally observed that will give issues.

Your unit isn't a digital unit, but it should weld at 5 amps regardless of being digital or not...and it probably should hold a better arc, but there are some issues there that need to be corrected and reshot to see visually if anything improves. You can see for yourself on the spec panel that the unit specifically shows 5 amps minimum in AC or DC. And, again, we will take care of you as quickly as possible. You won't find too many companies that care enough to reply to a tech support issue well past midnight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rugar

My 5 year old 250EX goes down to 6 amps on the display in both AC and DC. I just went out and fired it up and turned it all the way down to 6 amps on DC, then flipped the switch to AC and the display still showed 6 amps. Mine will stack mini dimes on the bottom of a beer can.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

Josh, been checking on your unit and trying to figure out the confusion. Don't worry, you WILL be taken care of. I need to fill in a couple of blanks here. When did you buy it? Where are you located? And can you post up a picture of your spec panel ( the graph on the side of the welder)?

If it is one of the new digital units, it should be an easy fix with the programming.
250EX's are spec'd to weld down to 5 amps...digital or not. (Plus/minus 2-3 amps).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

In the video the standoff was greater than the diameter of the tungsten by several times. A rule of thumb is to keep your standoff approximately the distance of the diameter of the tungsten. I have seen lots of videos like this and learned how to judge the distances. The stickout was quite small as well. You could use a little more stickout if that was an issue. But you also did not have a direct connection with your work, something I have personally observed that will give issues.

Your unit isn't a digital unit, but it should weld at 5 amps regardless of being digital or not...and it probably should hold a better arc, but there are some issues there that need to be corrected and reshot to see visually if anything improves. You can see for yourself on the spec panel that the unit specifically shows 5 amps minimum in AC or DC. And, again, we will take care of you as quickly as possible. You won't find too many companies that care enough to reply to a tech support issue well past midnight.

---

Thanks for the tips. I can tell you without a doubt it isn't related to arc length or stick out as I've tried extremely large values for each and extremely low values...and everything in between. I have tried for two solid days to troubleshoot the issue.

My next day off is Monday. To prove it is not user error, i will rig something up at work that will take the human touch out of the equation entirely. I can machine a fixture that will hold the torch at a specific distance from the workpiece and use calipers to meticulously adjust the stickout if that is whats needed to show i am not making an error on something as simple as arc length and stickout.

The problems i am having occur regardless of balance, frequency, gas flow, arn length, stick out, tungsten size, cup size, gas lens size, torch type, gas cylinder, pulse settings, switch types (foot or torch switch), etc.

There is an issue with the machine at low amperages. I appreciate the effort and dedication by the tech support here. Undeniably, no company I've had experience with would be up at 1a.m. assisting customers with issues. It is certainly refreshing. Everlast has helped me out in the past with a torch problem with lightning speed. I'm not doubting I will not be helped and the issue resolved but rather just a bit frustrated as you could imagine.

Had a project i needed to complete for a customer by the end of April. It isn't looking too promising right now. My machine has not let me down on any jobs until this point.

Staying hopeful my issues will be resolved for now.

Be sure to indicate exactly what amperage you are having this happen at while welding...i.e. take a peak over at the display.

Anything change since the last project? The unit will do 5 amps AC or DC like Mark said. Looks like you were inside so no breeze I would guess. Know anyone that can loan you an argon tank? How much argon is left in the tank. Jody posted up a homemade filter a while back. That is an option to check the gas. Does it weld OK over 50 amps or so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by everlastsupport

Anything change since the last project? The unit will do 5 amps AC or DC like Mark said. Looks like you were inside so no breeze I would guess. Know anyone that can loan you an argon tank? How much argon is left in the tank. Jody posted up a homemade filter a while back. That is an option to check the gas. Does it weld OK over 50 amps or so.

---

Yeah, no breeze. I went ahead and got a new cylinder so i don't think it's related to gas. It does seem to do ok with higher amperages. I stacked dimes on 1/8" plate without any issues. I just get the sputtering when dropping down to do thin stuff.

I'm currently working so i am unable to try anything at the moment. I could possibly try a few things when i make it home this evening. I was thinking it might be the material i was trying to weld. I found some similar material i can try when i get home.

Is there anything i can check on the machine itself? Anything adjustable on the internals of the unit or maybe some diagnostic stuff i can try on the boards?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Yeah, no breeze. I went ahead and got a new cylinder so i don't think it's related to gas. It does seem to do ok with higher amperages. I stacked dimes on 1/8" plate without any issues. I just get the sputtering when dropping down to do thin stuff.

I'm currently working so i am unable to try anything at the moment. I could possibly try a few things when i make it home this evening. I was thinking it might be the material i was trying to weld. I found some similar material i can try when i get home.

Is there anything i can check on the machine itself? Anything adjustable on the internals of the unit or maybe some diagnostic stuff i can try on the boards?

---

From the second video, it's pretty clear that you have the right arc length and the torch is steady. Things start off ok, then without anything changing, the arc becomes unstable, and the sputtering starts.
The one thing you can check is the HF point gap, if your model has the open point system. Not likely to have any bearing on your problem, but it's something to eliminate from the troubleshooting. Another thing that is always good to check are the board to board interconnects. Re-seat the connections to make sure nothing was shaken loose during shipping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rambozo

From the second video, it's pretty clear that you have the right arc length and the torch is steady. Things start off ok, then without anything changing, the arc becomes unstable, and the sputtering starts.
The one thing you can check is the HF point gap, if your model has the open point system. Not likely to have any bearing on your problem, but it's something to eliminate from the troubleshooting. Another thing that is always good to check are the board to board interconnects. Re-seat the connections to make sure nothing was shaken loose during shipping.

---

Yep, that is exactly what happens. One of the videos i did start out with a longer arc length but brought it in closer after. The second video is a little easier to see that nothing changes. Sorry for the poor quality. Kinda tough to get a decent video.
Didn't think of reseating the connections. Maybe I'll try it when i get home....Assuming it wouldn't void any kind of warranty. I'll try to update this thread if i have time to do anything after work.

check all the connections and the gap on the points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by everlastsupport

check all the connections and the gap on the points.

---

Any suggestions how to go about discharging the capacitors before checking the gap? ...short of unplughing it and leaving it off for a few days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Any suggestions how to go about discharging the capacitors before checking the gap? ...short of unplughing it and leaving it off for a few days.

---

They discharge quickly when unplugged. Give it about 20min and you're good.

If you unplug it from the wall and then turn the power switch on, should be discharged in seconds. Give it a minute to be safe.

Thanks guys! I unplugged it from the wall yesterday and will take the cover off to inspect the HF gap and electrical connections.

Just to be sure, this wont void the warranty will it? I'd prefer if someone from Everlast address the question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Just to be sure, this wont void the warranty will it? I'd prefer if someone from Everlast address the question.

---

You can wait for an official reply, but they'll say it doesn't void the warranty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshtodd1984

Thanks guys! I unplugged it from the wall yesterday and will take the cover off to inspect the HF gap and electrical connections.

Just to be sure, this wont void the warranty will it? I'd prefer if someone from Everlast address the question.

---

Removing the cover does not void the warranty. It's part of normal maintenance. I'm not an Everlast employee but I'm sure they will tell you the same.

It will not void the warranty.

http://s15.postimg.org/ygg9kirsr/20160411_205620.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/r84mv8f23/20160411_210446.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/m24madn9p/20160411_210352.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/9w8vnjayj/20160411_205853.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/nybsjzjbz/20160411_205835.jpg

I took the cover off the machine last night to check the hf gap and ensure all the electrical connections were firmly seated. The HF gap was set at .028". I did not attempt to adjust or change anything in regards to the gap. All the electrical connections looked fine.

Today i proceeded with testing the welder using a fixture to hold the torch at a set distance and to ensure the stickout length was correct.

Problem still exists.

Settings:
Amperage: 5amps
Frequency: 120Hz
Balance: 20-25%
Argon flow: 8cfh
3/32" 2% Lanthinated Tungsten
Gas lens with a #4 cup
CK 9 series rigid torch
Material Dimensions: 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/16"
Stickout Length: 3/16" (2x diameter of tungsten)
Tip of Tungsten to Workpiece Distance: 3/32" (2.4mm)

I'll try to post a link to the video later this evening. It's doing the same exact thing as in the original videos.

Machine Settings
http://s30.postimg.org/bd3n9zs5d/20160411_211127.jpg
Tungsten Sharpened
http://s29.postimg.org/ojtd6f653/20160411_203203.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/ilxxf5gpj/20160411_205949.jpg

Most recent video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...&v=Ndj2vaqTseg

The torch is mounted in a fixture i threw together. Suggestions? Comments? Where should i go from here? Really need to get this issue cleared up so i can proceed with my projects. I'm available to talk over the phone tomorrow morning (eatern time) with tech support.

Thanks!

I would call tech support. We have exhausted all the forum has to offer. You say then you turn the amps down in AC it will not go to 5 +/- amps?

Lots of issues here with setup. You are at 5 amps. This is the absolute lowest you can start an arc when all conditions are perfect with a small tungsten such as .040 or possibly a 1/16, not a 3/32". I'd try thoriated in this situation. We always say to allow for up to 3 amps variation. But additionally, the arc gap is too large, as I was saying to sustain an arc at that amperage. You have to be right on it. You need to be at half that distance or less for low amp starts and definitely more taper. And the metal should be clean. I am not seeing clean either.

The arc gap is not the problem. I can redo the setup at whatever settings you tell me. The machine does not run right at 5 amps or at 50 amps. It sputters regardless. I can set it up with a .1mm arc and gap and 50 amps if you'd like. It will still sputter and pop and not weld right.

The aluminium was cleaned with a stainless brush and acetone. How do you suggest i clean it further? I am setting things up just as i would at work with a Miller. No problems there whatsoever. I tried a smaller tungsten in previous attemps, as suggested by tech support and was told i was using too small of tungsten. Now it's too large? I have tried everything from .040" all the way up to 1/8" as previously stated.

I have tried thicker material (1/8" plate) at higher amperage and many, many different settings (frequency, balance, etc). It does the same exact thing on thicker material at higher amperages once you let off the pedal to lower the heat.

I had it at 70 amps and controlling it with the foot pedal. Anytime you slightly let off the foot pedal to lower the amperage, the machine will begin to sputter. After about 10 seconds or so it will start to sputter even with the torch switch. It has this issue after about 10 seconds whether ilet off the pedal or not.

If it is an arc gap issue, why does it hold an arc just fine up until about 10-15 seconds? Wouldn't the arc have problems initiating if the gap was too large?

Please respond so i can set up the fixture and make an additional video before i go in to work. As stated earlier, i will set it up at whatever sittings you tell me.

And no, it isn't the foot pedal. I tested it last night with a multi-meter. It operated fine. It does the same thing with the torch switch. DC on mild steel does just fine at 5 amps with the same exact setup (5 amps, arc gap, etc) and the foot pedal.

Can i be directed to someone in tech support who is on a landline? The last time i tried to talk to someone it was super difficult to hear/understand the guy due to the frequency his voice would cut in and out. Terrible reception.

Look, what else can I say? I'm a bit frustrated. I am trying to help, not punish you. I am doing SOP here.
I've given you what I saw. You wanted help and tech support, but you keep showing me things( and the others as well) that support unstable operation. Then you say when I respond," well it does it at any setting". I'm telling you what I see. You cannot use any condition you want and expect it to weld right at low amperage. I am not saying the unit does not have an issue, but in the cases I've seen you post, you don't have things right. We know things about the unit that you may not understand. When we tell you it may be this or that, you just categorically state it isn't. You stated you tested the foot pedal last night...but don't even say how or under what circumstances you did it. You show in the picture 5 amps...not 70.

This type of thing should be tested with the torch switch first, under controlled conditions to rule out error.
Set the machine up with some thoriated .040" tungsten if you want to weld at 5 amps. Use the torch switch to start the arc (4T if you don't want to keep your finger on it). Keep the gap to a minimum.
You can't use the foot pedal adequately and set the unit to 5 amps and expect it to weld. You have a huge throw and it has to be maxed out before the arc will start and stabilize if you do. The greater the amperage, the better the unit will start with the foot pedal.

Any discrepancy in the foot pedal is then magnified...and what you are telling me leads us back to the foot pedal as a real possibility. Again, it may not be, but what I've seen has not ruled it out.

Clean your weld as well before you start.

As far as tech support line, try again. May have been a bad connection. I don't usually have an issue when I call in. The company, I believe, has gone to VOIP for phone service and it isn't perfect. I've lobbied for another source, but Oleg has his reasons. What can I say about that? It's San Francisco. They think they are cutting edge out there. lol. But aren't aware of the rest of the worlds "norms".

I would say the reason you are not seeing "clean metal" is because i didn't clean the entire 18" section of aluminium. Just the 4"-6" section that was being welded on.

The area just under the tunsten is cleaned thoroughly and can make a video of that if need be.

Fair enough, I'll send the machine in and Everlast can figure it out. Quite frankly, I'm tired of fooling with it.

There are issues welding in A/C. My setup is near perfect. all i need to do is weld some 1/16" aluminium angle without blowing a hole and you're telling me i basically need to have robotic precision to complete the task. I have zero issues on other machines.

I'll make an additonal video keeping everything you have suggested in mind. I'll call tech support shortly as well.

Knowbody is suggesting you're trying to "punish" me. I'm not 5....come on. It seems like all the issues are being blamed on setup error and problems with the welder are not being taken into consideration as a factor.