New 210EXT

Hello, I just received my new unit from Everlast this Friday. The machine is dated Jan 2014. I hooked it up and I can't get a puddle going. The machine seems to run fine. I read the manuals to the best of that ability. Here are my notes. This is my second TIG welder. Hobbyist.

- the breaker in the back is not hot
- my wall plug is not hot
- it is connected to a 220v 30a
- I get argon, no leaks at connection points, gas at 1300

The instructions I have received contradict with what the online manual says about connecting +/-. So, I have tried both and it seems I get the same result. I first powered it up, set controls (1.0 pre flow, 10 start current, 150, 10 end current, 1.0 end gas) what I got was a very bright, burnt tungsten. Used torch hand control.

- had just 2t, then pedal and 2t
- hf tig
- tig pulse off

- metal was clean
- grounded
- tungsten grinded with new stones on grinder (2% Ceriated)

I then tried foot control. Same control parameters, dropped 150-100, 10 slope up and down. What I got next was no real arc, it seemed the tungsten was glowing red about 10 mm up, and the metal got burned. Steel. Like what you would see on burnt paper. I then tried A/C and had the same problem. (pure tungsten electrode) The noise sounded like automatic gun fire.

I haven't messed with the hidden controls. I am trying to find the post about someone else having a similar problem. There must be something I am missing. Any help would be appreciated but plan to call technical support Monday if this isn't resolved.

Thank You, Matt

Hi, Matt.

Congrats on your purchase! You'll love that machine once you get it going. I have one from the same batch.

For starters, yes, the manual is lacking. Your work clamp goes in the left, and your torch in the right. Polarity is controlled by the front panel button. You'll want DC- selected for steel. Make sure the HF Start button is on (upper right). Select TIG mode (lower left).

One thing that bit me is the HF start timer defaults to like 2 seconds, and if the arc doesn't establish it shuts down the torch and gas. That's a setting in the hidden menu. But not your issue here.

Have you tried turning off HF and scratch starting the arc? Tried stick?

What you describe does sound like it needs some troubleshooting with Everlast. I'd bet one of the first questions will be verifying the power plug is wired right, so it might speed things up to post pictures. If you're comfortable doing it, remove the right cover and measure voltage at the upper back of the circuit board where the power connects - you should have around 240v hot-hot and 120v from each hot to the ground.

I have no idea how the machine would run with power mis-wired, but it kinda sounds like something's keeping the arc from sustaining once it establishes.

Cheers,
Richard

Dumb question, but have you checked that the torch is assembled with solid connections? I.e., no loose collet, etc.?

Welcome, Matt!

I saw your post and had to step away, then came back to find Richard had already responded. I'll admit I was a touch confused by your note about "breaker not hot, wall plug not hot" which to some might mean there is no electric power.

Richard and I both kind of assumed you're working on steel, is that the case? If yes then he's spot on: set the machine for DC electrode negative and turn off anything to do with AC.

As long as you're checking connections, how's your ground?

Dave O

A few points; You don't want to use pure tungsten on an inverter. What size steel and tungsten are you using? What is your argon flow rate? Usually for foot pedal work you will set start amps, end amps, upslope and downslope all to minimum, otherwise the pedal will not respond in real time from those delays.
Here are some basic setting to weld a bead on plate for 1/8" steel:
3/32" tungsten ground to a point (2% Thoriated, Lanthinated, etc.)
Upslope, downslope, start amps, end amps all set to minimum.
Preflow .5 seconds, post flow 7 seconds, argon set to 14 cfh (7 lpm), #6 -#8 cup size with or without gas lens.
70 amps on the panel, use either torch switch or pedal, this should be enough to get a bead, but not too hot.
DCEN, HF start. Hold the tungsten about 3/32" away from the metal and hit the switch/pedal.

Give that a try.

Thanks guys for the responses. Hopefully I will answer them all.

-yes to steel. Not ss, 1/8 thick, 3/32 Ceriated tungsten
-everything on torch is tight
-argon is set to 14, had 15
-unsure how to do scratch start, will look it up here shortly
-did not receive any parts for stick and have never attempted it
-Ground is good, made a big welding table with last tig machine and used before I got rid of it. That's how I know argon is good and ground works on table
-Rambozo, will try settings. Had slope at 0, changed to 5, up and down slope.

RichardH, I think mine is a little different than yours.
I'm fine taking panel off. Actually it is now. Noisey beast. Fan kicks ###. In Glendale, AZ.

Will try to add pictures.

Thanks, Matt

Attachment 11921Attachment 11922

hopefully pictures come up. now will go try new settings.

i believe the wire is correct, when i had the problems, went to local home depot and talked with the guy that had a badge that said master electrician. had talked to him before. he believes the wiring is correct hence the statement about the cable connections not being hot. nor the machine turning off.

ground is on the right, and the torch is connected to that per the online manual. correct?

I seem to be the guy that responds to his own post post.

Anyway, the start up amps help. so check for the dc. ac. nope. so i am assuming its me again.

The arc dances in a nickle style circle and no puddle.

My last machine didnt have all these nice features so i am now going to read why they are important.

Any ideas about the ac?

TAttachment 11923hanks again, Matt

Matt,

I'm coming back from diving at Lake Pleasant shortly, headed back to Chandler. Call me and I'll try to talk the wife into stopping by and checking out your kit, or you're welcome to come to my place - it's only 45 miles. :-)
Four eight oh, eight six one, seven nine three nine.
Cheers,
Richard

Your torch should be in the right. Not the ground. This is likely most of the problem. Black and white wires are hot. Green is ground. It should have nema 6-50 plug.

Good news, I think… I stopped by Matt's and we tinkered with his 210EXT for a while on both steel and aluminum, and I think we settled on some settings that work well on each. There definitely was some screwiness with the welder - not a physical defect, but the user interface has a "quirk".

He's got the new "2014" one-knob model of 210EXT (I think it's the one they've been selling in Canada for a little while), and aside from the panel being different, the personality is a little different.

Specifically, this version of the 210EXT has a new option for "Pedal", in addition to 2T/4T. Though I'm not sure how that's different from 2T. Second, it seems that the 4T settings were in effect for start/end amps and up/down slope, even when the welder was not in 4T mode - this was the root of the problem. Once we zeroed out the start/end amps and up/down slope, and set it to Pedal for good measure… then it started working as expected.

On the 2013 version I have, you can't even set 4T options when the pedal is plugged in - it auto-selects 2T mode, and it works as you'd expect. In the case above, it seemed like the pedal and 4T were both battling for control, so the welder was stuck in arc-start mode for a really long time. It wouldn't be until after the 5.0sec upslope time (or even double that) that a steady arc would establish and we'd get a puddle. During that time, the amps on the display jumped all over the place.

We didn't do a lot of problem isolation once we got to working settings, so I don't know if switching from 2T to Pedal fixed the problem, or if it's because we zeroed out the slopes. Either way, it probably shouldn't be doing 4T when it's not in 4T mode.

FWIW,
Richard

FYI, Matt.

Here's the adapter you'll need for your torch - that CK Superflex will be like night and day compared to the stock torch, but watch the max amps.
http://store.mwsco.com/storefront/ev...Product=614861
I didn't notice, but I assume your version of 210EXT has a quick disconnect on the front panel for gas. If not, this isn't the right adapter.
MWSCO is a weak site, but they have the best prices going. It's run by the same folks as WeldFabulous.com, but the prices are like 15% better.


If you find you're going through gas too fast, give this $10 fix a try - it'll eliminate the surge when you light up, which is wasted gas. If you do a lot of short welds, surge can use more gas than actually welding. http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.co...tart=10#p26728

For gas and filler, the guys at Allied Gas have been very good to work with, and their prices are the best I've found. I use the location in Tempe at Scottsdale & Curry (just off 202). They have another closer to you.

For other consumables, I eventually bought a selection of CK collets, bodies, gas lenses, etc. from MWSCO, but I also built a large kit from eBay that'll probably last me a very long time. Here are some links: http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.co...php?f=5&t=4398

Finally… when you find yourself in Chandler, the place I mentioned is TechShop - stop in for a tour, any day before midnight: http://www.techshop.ws

Cheers,
Richard

X2 - on Mississippi Welding, they're my new go-to supplier!

Very cool y'all were able to get together!

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Originally Posted by RichardH

If you find you're going through gas too fast, give this $10 fix a try ...

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That is brilliant! Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardH

Either way, it probably shouldn't be doing 4T when it's not in 4T mode.

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Some people seem to prefer upslope and downslope when in 2T mode. Jody over at Welding Tips and Tricks even has a video where he talks about using the torch switch with up/downslope to do a manual slow-pulse for heat control when welding out of position so you can't use a pedal. But, yeah, no reason at all that I can think of for having up/downslope active when in pedal mode.

I like having downslope active when in pedal because I can set it for a "no crater". It's lazy I know but why not have that automatic? When your done just slam the pedal open and let the downslope take care of things.

Upslope/Downslope is great for modulating a lower power when using 2t, and the "blast" you get from a short upslope is really handy. I never use 4t but I'm almost never making long constant current welds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardH

Specifically, this version of the 210EXT has a new option for "Pedal", in addition to 2T/4T. Though I'm not sure how that's different from 2T. Second, it seems that the 4T settings were in effect for start/end amps and up/down slope, even when the welder was not in 4T mode - this was the root of the problem. Once we zeroed out the start/end amps and up/down slope, and set it to Pedal for good measure… then it started working as expected.

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I would like to use the up slope, start amps, down slope and end amps in 2T mode. When I read that your 4T setting work when you were in 2T mode I got excited. I tried it on my unit and it had zero effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Moir

I like having downslope active when in pedal because I can set it for a "no crater". It's lazy I know but why not have that automatic? When your done just slam the pedal open and let the downslope take care of things.

Upslope/Downslope is great for modulating a lower power when using 2t, and the "blast" you get from a short upslope is really handy. I never use 4t but I'm almost never making long constant current welds.

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I would like this feature also. It is not supported in DC- on the 210EXT. Also start amps and down amps are not supported in AC mode when set as 2T.

Two points worth noting, as context is important.
1) This is a limited release of the new 210ext unit, as we prepare for full production. It's very different in many respects than the current unit and has more/different capabilities than the current unit including a higher duty cycle, larger case, different factory etc.
2) Paul's unit, last I knew was a 225lx unit (and not a digital 210ext) which is analog and all analog units use the 2T function in conjunction with the pedal as it is the same circuit. Slope works on this unit, but there are NO start amps or end amps, and it always starts at the lowest capable amperage, and ramps up from there. The upslope and downslope must be turned down or off to run the pedal normally or operational issues will occur.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

Two points worth noting, as context is important.
1) This is a limited release of the new 210ext unit, as we prepare for full production. It's very different in many respects than the current unit and has more/different capabilities than the current unit including a higher duty cycle, larger case, different factory etc.
2) Paul's unit, last I knew was a 225lx unit (and not a digital 210ext) which is analog and all analog units use the 2T function in conjunction with the pedal as it is the same circuit. Slope works on this unit, but there are NO start amps or end amps, and it always starts at the lowest capable amperage, and ramps up from there. The upslope and downslope must be turned down or off to run the pedal normally or operational issues will occur.

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Slope works on my unit in AC 2T mode. It does not in DC 2T mode. The Longevity TigWeld 200EX supports up slope and down slope in both AC, DC- and DC+ using 2T. The Longevity TigWeld 200EX does not support start amps or end amps unless you are in 4T mode. Miller Dynasty 200 and Lincoln V205T support up slope, down slop, start amps and end amps in all modes (AC, DC- and DC+).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judgeless

Slope works on my unit in AC 2T mode. It does not in DC 2T mode. The Longevity TigWeld 200EX supports up slope and down slope in both AC, DC- and DC+ using 2T. The Longevity TigWeld 200EX does not support start amps or end amps unless you are in 4T mode. Miller Dynasty 200 and Lincoln V205T support up slope, down slop, start amps and end amps in all modes (AC, DC- and DC+).

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Interesting. So, what version of the 210EXT do you have? The one-knob version shown in the photos below (2014)? When mine (2013 model) is in 2T mode, you can't even set values for slope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardH

Interesting. So, what version of the 210EXT do you have? The one-knob version shown in the photos below (2014)? When mine (2013 model) is in 2T mode, you can't even set values for slope.

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I received mine around June 2013 and it has two knobs. Everlast claims there are no rev numbers. I am an electrical Eng and know there are always rev numbers. Most devices post the versions of the boards on boot. This is what mine shoes.

075. 514 (1/2 sec)
070 907 (1/2 sec)
07A 01.2 (1 sec)

They also claim there are no default settings for the main menu and the hidden menu. Again as an Electrical Eng I know that is wrong. When the microcontroller is started for the first time it will contain default values. These values might change during test but there are default values. The numbers might change from rev to rev also.

On my unit I get up slope and down slop in AC mode 2T. In DC- and DC+ I cannot adjust anything but pre and post flow in 2T mode. I do not get start amps or end amps in 2T mode using any setting (AC, DC-, DC+)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judgeless

I received mine around June 2013 and it has two knobs. Everlast claims there are no rev numbers. I am an electrical Eng and know there are always rev numbers. Most devices post the versions of the boards on boot. This is what mine shoes.

075. 514 (1/2 sec)
070 907 (1/2 sec)
07A 01.2 (1 sec)

They also claim there are no default settings for the main menu and the hidden menu. Again as an Electrical Eng I know that is wrong. When the microcontroller is started for the first time it will contain default values. These values might change during test but there are default values. The numbers might change from rev to rev also.

On my unit I get up slope and down slop in AC mode 2T. In DC- and DC+ I cannot adjust anything but pre and post flow in 2T mode. I do not get start amps or end amps in 2T mode using any setting (AC, DC-, DC+)

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So your entire problem is that you don't want to release the torch switch while welding ?

It is very clear that you work for Everlast based on all your posts.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php...11#post4234711

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judgeless

I received mine around June 2013 and it has two knobs. Everlast claims there are no rev numbers. I am an electrical Eng and know there are always rev numbers. Most devices post the versions of the boards on boot. This is what mine shoes.

075. 514 (1/2 sec)
070 907 (1/2 sec)
07A 01.2 (1 sec)

They also claim there are no default settings for the main menu and the hidden menu. Again as an Electrical Eng I know that is wrong. When the microcontroller is started for the first time it will contain default values. These values might change during test but there are default values. The numbers might change from rev to rev also.

On my unit I get up slope and down slop in AC mode 2T. In DC- and DC+ I cannot adjust anything but pre and post flow in 2T mode. I do not get start amps or end amps in 2T mode using any setting (AC, DC-, DC+)

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I'm with you on the concept of defaults (I design with microcontrollers for fun), but there's no concept of a "reset to factory defaults" here so the initial weld settings aren't too relevant (except perhaps the hidden menu). That said, here's what I find on a unit from the Feb2014 batch... I think you'll be excited.
075. 514 F
070 907 F
07A 01.2 F
So, what would appear to be firmware versions are the same.

With pedal connected, I'm unable to change any slope values in 2T mode, or switch to 4T, since it detects the pedal.

With pedal disconnected, I *am* able to set upslope and downslope times in 2T, in both AC and DC- modes. In fact, the machine was set to 0.0s up and 1s down. Start/end amps aren't selectable. As a side note, although DC+ appears as a front-panel option, it's not possible to enable this mode.

I was going to do a test for you to confirm it actually behaves as set, but I discovered that I don't have a torch with a switch but no amp control (i.e., mine all look like a pedal to the machine).

If you really want defaults, I did record my hidden menu initial settings (before lowering the HF start amps), and I've only tweaked program 1.

Have you tried setting the options you want with nothing connected to the pedal connector? I.e., true 2T, not "pedal 2T".

(Incidentally, it later occurred to me that Matt's problem below might actually have been a missing connection in his pedal, causing the welder to not detect it as a pedal [causing this sloped 2T behavior combined with pedal amps, which was pretty crazy behavior] - his welder was sticking in HF start for the entire upslope period.)

Cheers,
Richard

Ya know, I'm trying to be objective and ignore the emotion in this thread, but it's not easy when you ignore the help I've offered and instead continue stirring hostility over on WeldingWeb...

Richard,
This isn't about him getting help. Mike offered it direct from day about day one. Zoama offered help as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardH

I'm with you on the concept of defaults (I design with microcontrollers for fun), but there's no concept of a "reset to factory defaults" here so the initial weld settings aren't too relevant (except perhaps the hidden menu). That said, here's what I find on a unit from the Feb2014 batch... I think you'll be excited.
075. 514 F
070 907 F
07A 01.2 F
So, what would appear to be firmware versions are the same.

With pedal connected, I'm unable to change any slope values in 2T mode, or switch to 4T, since it detects the pedal.

With pedal disconnected, I *am* able to set upslope and downslope times in 2T, in both AC and DC- modes. In fact, the machine was set to 0.0s up and 1s down. Start/end amps aren't selectable. As a side note, although DC+ appears as a front-panel option, it's not possible to enable this mode.

I was going to do a test for you to confirm it actually behaves as set, but I discovered that I don't have a torch with a switch but no amp control (i.e., mine all look like a pedal to the machine).

If you really want defaults, I did record my hidden menu initial settings (before lowering the HF start amps), and I've only tweaked program 1.

Have you tried setting the options you want with nothing connected to the pedal connector? I.e., true 2T, not "pedal 2T".

(Incidentally, it later occurred to me that Matt's problem below might actually have been a missing connection in his pedal, causing the welder to not detect it as a pedal [causing this sloped 2T behavior combined with pedal amps, which was pretty crazy behavior] - his welder was sticking in HF start for the entire upslope period.)

Cheers,
Richard

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Richard I do appreciate your help. I am on vacation Thur 5/29 thru Tues 6/3 in Boston. I would like to see your hidden setting values. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardH

If you really want defaults, I did record my hidden menu initial settings (before lowering the HF start amps), and I've only tweaked program 1.

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Richard can you post them?

These are mine. I think I changed Arc start amps and advanced AC pulse. It was a long time ago.

D01= N/A {00.5)
D02= HF Arc start duration (.5-5 seconds) {2.0}
D03= HF Arc start frequency (10-100Hz) {50}
D04= HF Arc start amps DC (10-100 amps) {30}
D05= HF Arc start amps AC (15-100 amps) {40}
D06= N/A {1.5}
D07= Lift start current DC and AC (10-100 amps) {15}
D08= Torch trigger or amp control 4T function by type torch (00 = 4T 01 = 4T Normal) {00}
D09= Voltage Reduction Device for MMA/stick (00 = VRD off 01 = VRD on) {00}
D10= Pulse mode Standard or Advanced. AC is added to DC in Advanced mode (00 = Standard 01 = Advanced) {01}

We've already said there are no default settings for these units. The defaults you find in the machine will be a result of the last person who ran through the program settings when live testing the unit. They can vary from unit to unit, or a cluster of them may have the same tester with a consistent setup/test style or it may be random. I've tested about 8 different units over time and each had a different setting on startup. Whatever setting used during the last stage of testing will be what is saved as the last setting.

And the last settings used may or may not be a workable setting depending upon whether the tester ran through the settings up or down after the physical weld test.

I still would like to see Richards settings.

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Originally Posted by performance

And the last settings used may or may not be a workable setting depending upon whether the tester ran through the settings up or down after the physical weld test.

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Mark
Your right the settings on my 255EXT set on stick did not work but I did not know what rod or size they were using and my AC was very strange also the DC work on thin steel but I did not know if tester was testing steel or stainless or what. I just set them myself to what I wanted the tester was probably checking for how it saved the settings. I had 4 for stick 2 AC and 3 DC same with my MTS250S it was 5 stick, 1 Tig, 2 Mig and 1 Syn. Mig but all the memory numbers were used.

I can see the initial numbers being what is needed for the load bank test or some other test. Since there is no "reset to default" control, there would be no point in having workable initial settings. For all we know they are all zeroed out when powered up for the first time. You would have to see the programming code to know for sure. And since the initial settings are not spec'd for welding it really doesn't matter what they are.

Rambozo
I think they have to set each number to something or the machine would not know what to do when it dose its self test on start up and go to nothing because you have to set it to something, there are know blank setting, it has to go to some type of setting the only thing that has off is the Pulse. I wish it had memory numbers I could use them or memory stick USB.

These are mine. I only changed HF start duration (D02, was ~2.0) and DC start amps (D04, was ~30). Everything else is factory default.

D01= N/A {00.5)
D02= HF Arc start duration (.5-5 seconds) {5.0}
D03= HF Arc start frequency (10-100Hz) {50}
D04= HF Arc start amps DC (10-100 amps) {10}
D05= HF Arc start amps AC (15-100 amps) {40}
D06= N/A {1.5}
D07= Lift start current DC and AC (10-100 amps) {15}
D08= Torch trigger or amp control 4T function by type torch (00 = 4T 01 = 4T Normal) {00}
D09= Voltage Reduction Device for MMA/stick (00 = VRD off 01 = VRD on) {00}
D10= Pulse mode Standard or Advanced. AC is added to DC in Advanced mode (00 = Standard 01 = Advanced) {01}

It's times like this I'm happy that my machine only has a polarity switch and a knob to set max amps. Keep practicing and you won't need the machine's help to prevent craters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardH

These are mine. I only changed HF start duration (D02, was ~2.0) and DC start amps (D04, was ~30). Everything else is factory default.

D01= N/A {00.5)
D02= HF Arc start duration (.5-5 seconds) {5.0}
D03= HF Arc start frequency (10-100Hz) {50}
D04= HF Arc start amps DC (10-100 amps) {10}
D05= HF Arc start amps AC (15-100 amps) {40}
D06= N/A {1.5}
D07= Lift start current DC and AC (10-100 amps) {15}
D08= Torch trigger or amp control 4T function by type torch (00 = 4T 01 = 4T Normal) {00}
D09= Voltage Reduction Device for MMA/stick (00 = VRD off 01 = VRD on) {00}
D10= Pulse mode Standard or Advanced. AC is added to DC in Advanced mode (00 = Standard 01 = Advanced) {01}

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RichardH, Thank you for posting that for me.

New 210EXT "replacement" just showed up today. I'd gotten one in May but it died after about 2 seconds of welding. The one today is the newer one-dial model, generally looks like an all around improved setup. Includes a power plug on the cord, and a 120VAC adapter to plug it into a standard 15A 120V outlet at about 50% welding capacity according to the manual.
Attachment 12228

Newbie here......gotta start somewhere!

My NEW 210EXT will be 'In the Mail' (so to say) this next week...im quite excited about it :D

I see, from a pic that Alex sent me, that there is no Advanced Sine waveform, like on the 255EXT....whats up with that?
Also, no 'Easy Start' either.....whatever that is/does.

From other posts that i hv read, i believe the Sine wave sounds/functions similar to the Old Transformer tigs.
Im anxious to learn more about this machine...and hear what others hv to say about these functions....and what their purpose/function is....and if its really needed on the New 210EXT (altho they probly not gonna add it now tho).

I must say, so far, the knowledge, professionalism and willingness to answer all my questions, has been OUTSTANDING from the team at Everlast.

thnx guys!