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This might not be the correct place for this but I thought it was Important to pass on. I like most of you have used brake cleaner and get a little careless on where and when we spray it.
Please follow this link and read the results.
Mike Mark you may want to put this in a better area.
Thank You
dwdw
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
DWDW,
I think we have posted information about this somewhere....ITs definitely in the manuals. Too bad so many people REFUSE to read their manuals.
To sum it up: Brake Cleaner will KILL you if you weld or cut metal you have cleaned with it. It converts to a basic chemical weapon that will kill you stone cold DEAD. EVEN A DROP will do it.
All i use in my machine shop is carb cleaner only for cleaning stuff since mostly acetone and safe to use . Best to not even have any brake cleaner any were you are around or do welding
I think we have posted information about this somewhere....ITs definitely in the manuals. Too bad so many people REFUSE to read their manuals.
To sum it up: Brake Cleaner will KILL you if you weld or cut metal you have cleaned with it. It converts to a basic chemical weapon that will kill you stone cold DEAD. EVEN A DROP will do it.[/QUOTE]
OOOOH Sheeeit!!!
I use it for cleaning my SS when TIGing.
Thanks for the post.
This was on the forum some time ago. But maybe worth a sticky in general welding. Mark or I will move it when we get some time.
The same warning goes for any chlorinated cleaning product.
Yes,
It seems brake cleaner might be the worse offender.
Any one know of any other chlorinated products we can add by name?
Moved here and pinned up for now.
I read the article some time back. I thought I never use that stuff. But others might.
Me personally, I never use brake cleaner. I avoid carb cleaner as well. I use denatured alcohol for most things and acetone for the tougher stuff. Have them in spray bottles (buy in the big cans to save money). I do use carb cleaner but only when de-greaser will not get it done and nothing I weld on.
Mike doesn't the carb cleaner deteriorate plastic and rubber parts like in hoses?? I ruined a 2 stroke carb that has an internal ball check, it melted and there went a Stihl chainsaw ( Stihl doesn't sell parts to the DIYer)
I use it but sparingly, it also does well at removing paint!
Being professional dummy, I must have 5 cases of brake cleaner! and 1/2 case of carb cleaner! Acetone is OK! but it seems to dissolve the non metal parts.
Looks like I need to to more brake work and less welding! LOL
dwdw
That is a bummer on Stihl, that was (and probably still will be) my next chainsaw. The Germans know how to build them.
This will sound nuts, water and a carbs, but I do my carbs in a ultrasonic tub with warm water and sea foam motor treatment. Works very well, I leave rubber and plastic on as well. Then take a set of O/A torch tip cleaners and go through it, then high pressure air. Works wonders for sure. Will even get varnish gas out or loose.
I killed a Ryobi 2 stroke carb with carb cleaner once. Ate the diaphragm up on it and in no time I might add.
I'll try that! Sea Foam treatment works OK!
dwdw
The problem you will have with anything like Sea Foam. You have to give it time. The ultra-sonic helps a bit and the heat.
Seems like things are to slow or fast these days.
It's like glues, fillers, primers and paints. More time makes it work. If you are in a hurry, the results will not be right and you can do it a second and third time. Like anything else.
Or just shoot fast acting chemicals like carb cleaner to save time. :D
Wow!! I gota say I knew this , but have avoided using chlorinated cleaning products for some time, mostly because they can damage the heat exchanger in our waste oil burner. but it's funny there's a can sitting on the work bench right now? Same deal, they were out of the stuff I usually buy, that seems to be basically pressurized alcohol, so I grabbed the “red” can.
It's good to review safety steps often, especially for us old farts, I seem to forget why we do things sometime. Yea getting old is a drag but you have to remember the basics.
Thanks allot guys you all probably saved my A$$.
So question on the breake clean, there is two different types of brake clean. Chlorinated and non-Chlorinated, i dont have a can here in front of me but are they both deadly or is it just the Chlorinated one that is deadly?
I believe it’s chlorinated or fluorinated, some electronics cleaners are fluorinated.
There are many alternatives to brake cleaner...though their might be some discussion to their effectiveness. But I prefer a little elbow grease any day to death.
As for trying to discriminate between cleaners: Don't...Consider them all the same. Just as in gun safety, you are taught to treat all guns like they are loaded, even if you know full well they aren't and you'll probably never die from an accidental gun shot wound. Same with cleaners. A lot of times cleaners are made on the same lines as others and a small trace amount may still be present. I am no manufacuring expert...just trying to follow logic...so I would avoid them all unless they say "safe for cleaning immediately before welding", I wouldn't use them.
I hear ya there i was more or less just poseing the question because at work we use the non clorinated and someone said that its just the clorinated that causes the problems, So i was just asking. Most of the guys i work with do proper prep work when they are gonna weld on something, but i had the same thoughts as you they are probably coming out of the same plant who know a little might slip in here and there so why risk it.Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
Before i found this out, I decided to see if brake cleaner was flammable. It instead made a bad smell and I decided to vacate the area. I about #### my self when I read that article.
phosphorc acid work ok to clean weld for painting.leaves white film ,wire wheel of.Newer anti spater sprays ok but all ways READ LABLE!!!! Plus get your heat treat # from steel vender you can get chemical copposition of material some times called MTR material test report.When welding STAINLES STEEL the crome turns in hexovalient crome very bad on nervis system.plus magnesium in weld rods can cause mag madness.Tungstion 2% thrioum is radio active. I spell like a little kid so bare with me:D
phosphoric acid used on carbon steelQuote:
Originally Posted by jojobead
Great advice - thanks. I work on Porsche engines as a sideline, and I use brake cleaner for some of the cleaning - the main advantage is it leaves no residue. However did not know about this aspect of it, so thanks!!
Cheers,
Mike
I had no idea!!! I believe these products should have a much LOUDER warning label!
I too had no idea on this either.... Was welding 2 days ago on some metal that i cleaned with carb cleaner. Glad i didnt grab the break cleaner like i almost did!!!
The best thing to take away from that article is to read the label. When in doubt, you can find all the info you need in the MSDS for any product. Just look in the fire fighting section for breakdown products and precautions. You can't make a blanket statement like brake cleaner = bad, carb cleaner = good. Most brake cleaners I looked up are acetone and heptane, these days, with CO2 as propellant. Phosgene is produced by heating any CFC based propellant. There have been hundreds of formulations for both brake and carb cleaners. None of them have been made with the idea of cleaning parts to be welded. Solvents have always been an issue and people misuse them all the time. Now most are off the market, because of misuse, and lawsuits. Even many water based cleaners have bad breakdown products when burned. You have to use your head and be safe. There are respirators that will block virtually all the fumes that you can encounter welding. If I was smart I wouldn't strike an arc without wearing one. I do try to remember to wear one anytime I'm welding for an extended period of time. Even just from TIG tacks on clean metal, I can tell from the taste in my mouth that I have been exposed to something when I go without. I'm better now than when I was younger, but I still forget or rationalize about not using proper PPE. But if something happens, I know it's my own damn fault.
People don't know about the dangers of welding galvanized... That is pretty bad stuff too...
Good point, it's bad, but not near as bad as chlorinated products. That will kill you and fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ski
We do galvanized all the time. 5'x10' sheets of tacked expanded and sheet (11+ in the last month). It will make you a little light headed if you really breath a lot of it. It also does clear out of your system. Best thing is grind it off or vent it well over shielding gas. We vent it as we want to keep as much on the trailers as we can.
Galvanized can be do if done right, done really wrong will make you sick. OP, not recommended at all.
I knew about galvanized (I've got one of those canister masks for working with it) and though I don't use it, never thought there was a danger with brake cleaner (I mostly use alcohol and acetone).
These kind of posts should be stickied and mandatory reading before you're allowed to make your first post on the forums. I got lucky at an estate sale and picked up a 3m speed glass helm with integrated papr system retail about $1200 for $170 its even got the new rechargeable NiMH power system. Excluding the respiratory protection the air circulation and no more sweating is great.
Before that I was still using a respirator, having to lean over most of my work due to my limitations from my disability I didn't need to add a respitory problem also.
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