PowerTig 255EXT got CODE 805

Got a 805 code when I pushed down the foot pedal to see what I had set the amps to I and got a 805 code, let off the pedal and the code went away. Checked the book and it said that Code 805 is (TORCH SWITCH IS STUCK CLOSED/ Turn off welder immediately and check switch) the switch is fine. It only dose it when you do not strike an arc within a few seconds like just too far away for the arc to start. If you let off the pedal the code disappears but if the code come on when you are going to start to weld and don’t for some reason, know the code comes on before it start an arc it will not start even if you touch the work with the tungsten it is dead, you must let off the pedal and restart again.


Attachment 11369

Kempy, I ran into this several times yesterday and then again today. I am building a device to assist a convalescing senior from 1" satin silver anodized aluminum tubing. This stuff is basically non-conductive. I've had trouble getting a ground connection and found that if I grind clean the inside of a tube end and clamp a braided automotive ground bonding strap between it and my bench, it works. And of course the coating has to be ground off of each weld area. But in learning this, I did get the 805 error, and looked it up like you did. I still get it, occasionally and it acts just like there is no ground connection, and the HF just washes over the part. Then sometimes after this, it seems to not fire the HF so no start on that try. So I do want fully identify the conditions when this happens, it seems to be associated with this weird material only.

I made a grave mistake and forgot to turn on my cooler, and thought I may have damaged my old torch, and had caused this error code from that. I am glad you pointed this out, perhaps others can weigh-in with their experience.

BTW, Very nice array of green machines you have accumulated.:)

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Originally Posted by Kempy

Got a 805 code when I pushed down the foot pedal to see what I had set the amps to I and got a 805 code, let off the pedal and the code went away. Checked the book and it said that Code 805 is (TORCH SWITCH IS STUCK CLOSED/ Turn off welder immediately and check switch) the switch is fine. It only dose it when you do not strike an arc within a few seconds like just too far away for the arc to start. If you let off the pedal the code disappears but if the code come on when you are going to start to weld and don’t for some reason, know the code comes on before it start an arc it will not start even if you touch the work with the tungsten it is dead, you must let off the pedal and restart again.

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So it sounds like this is a code that means your tungsten is too far away from the work.
I don't quite understand your last sentence, though. Is this more for information or is there a problem?
From what you say, if you depress the pedal before you have the tungsten close, this code will display and the machine will not start until you release the pedal and try again. But if you first place the tungsten close to the work and then hit the pedal, it starts right up. Sounds like that is by design and I don't see a problem with that, but it is nice to know. I am curious as to what is the behavior when you are in lift arc mode. Do you need to touch the tungsten before you hit the switch, or can you hit the switch then tap the work?

I agree with Ram. I will try it later with mine to see if the original 10 have that same software/code. I was running no start amps a couple days ago and did not have the problem, but I was using the torch/trigger and was digging in close asap when I did not get the HF to jump when I thought it should.

Mark mentioned turning up the start amps, I have not tried it but it makes sense. Maybe try that. Or just get closer before hitting the pedal. Or maybe the pedal switch might need to be moved a bit.

Sounds like a software change if it start to be a real problem. Nice thing about going digital.

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Originally Posted by JimMinKent

Kempy,
I made a grave mistake and forgot to turn on my cooler, and thought I may have damaged my old torch, and had caused this error code from that. I am glad you pointed this out, perhaps others can weigh-in with their experience.
BTW, Very nice array of green machines you have accumulated.:)

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Thanks on the green lineup. On page 14 of the online manual it shows the welders 220/240V plug is your not connected to the water cooler so when you turn the welder on it turns the cooler on. The Canadian one has it.
Attachment 11370

In theory, this is to protect unit from having someone doing something stupid and sit and fire the torch full of high frequency with no place to go or firing when the ground is off...which it will find a place to go just like Ray Steven's the squirrel that went to church (if you catch my drift.) Guys if it continues or gets worse in normal situations, let me know. No suspected issue or anything, but it sounds like it could be a low/bad ground situation...possibly a loose tungsten??

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

So it sounds like this is a code that means your tungsten is too far away from the work.
I don't quite understand your last sentence, though. Is this more for information or is there a problem?
From what you say, if you depress the pedal before you have the tungsten close, this code will display and the machine will not start until you release the pedal and try again. But if you first place the tungsten close to the work and then hit the pedal, it starts right up. Sounds like that is by design and I don't see a problem with that, but it is nice to know. I am curious as to what is the behavior when you are in lift arc mode. Do you need to touch the tungsten before you hit the switch, or can you hit the switch then tap the work?

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Yes to your question it is not a problem, it is what I found so far just giving more information. It might only be a glitch in the programing of the machine. I don't remember it happing when I was working on Steel just Aluminum I will check it later today. Overall I the LOVE machine.

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Originally Posted by performance

In theory, this is to protect unit from having someone doing something stupid and sit and fire the torch full of high frequency with no place to go or firing when the ground is off...which it will find a place to go just like Ray Steven's the squirrel that went to church (if you catch my drift.) Guys if it continues or gets worse in normal situations, let me know. No suspected issue or anything, but it sounds like it could be a low/bad ground situation...possibly a loose tungsten??

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All welder that do a lot of welding around the shop will make mistakes, like not putting the ground on or it falls off but I would not call them STUPID if you make a spelling mistake you don’t call them STUPID.

I am specifically referring to those calls that people tell me the torch won't work because when they press the trigger and hold it up in the air a flame doesn't shoot out and to those people that just hold the torch trigger down to see what will happen. But yes we all do something stupid from time to time. Me for sure. If people get offended by the use of the word stupid, no apologies here, because I'm using it in the colloquial sense of the word. See my location (S. GA). Maybe that's become a P.C. term that overly sensitive people shouldn't say?

Well back to the code 805 testing.
I decided to get my Everlast Amptrol torch out and try it since the machine has a special feature for it T4 and Pedal combined, this did not put out a code 805 if I did not strike and arc. I leave the ground off and it would show the amp up and down but not put out a code.

Attachment 11371

Keep in mind the unit is supposed to do this. It protects the machine...the protection is doing its job. It's not a fault if it acts according to what you described Kempy (several seconds). Again, doing stuff like this is NOT how the unit is intended to be used and is improper operation and we don't guarantee it to operate if its used incorrectly in a way that could potentially damage the machine. Stepping on the pedal to check your amps is not intended as a normal way of operation, and is a poor/bad habit. All the HF energy has to have someplace to go to. It's going to jump off the board onto something else if it doesn't have a path to travel down. That's why that's built in. If you need to check the amperage, just jog or barely touch the control knob. Set amps will display. But if you need to keep on stepping on the pedal for an extended time to check your amps, you need to max out your preflow, which will delay the HF from coming on.

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Originally Posted by Kempy

All welder that do a lot of welding around the shop will make mistakes, like not putting the ground on or it falls off but I would not call them STUPID if you make a spelling mistake you don’t call them STUPID.

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Hey Kempy,

If you read Mark's post, you will see that he never called anyone "stupid".

He said .... "this is to protect unit from having someone doing something stupid"....

Lots of smart people make mistakes.
Even Einstein acknowledged as much. See his cosmological constant, which he called his "biggest blunder".

Cheers,
rivets

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Originally Posted by Rivets

Hey Kempy,

If you read Mark's post, you will see that he never called anyone "stupid".

He said .... "this is to protect unit from having someone doing something stupid"....

Lots of smart people make mistakes.
Even Einstein acknowledged as much. See his cosmological constant, which he called his "biggest blunder".

Cheers,
rivets

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This is why we have the forum to find mistakes and fixes them BIG or SMALL.

Mark's post are normally direct and to the point. But on occasion they are misread. He was not trying to insult anyone. You could not meet a nicer guy.

Well my conclusion so far with the 805 code by welding up a triple tank holder all Aluminum for a trailer, using the Everlast Amptrol Tig gun set to the Special setting of T4 plus Pedal, I never got the code 805 from low amps to high even when I hit the button before an arc started (OOPS).
It seems that the problem is in the foot pedal setting only so far in my testing and welding jobs and I did try all of my pedals one prototype and the two 250EX and the one that came with the 255EXT all EVERLAST Pedals.
T2 or T4 with pedal I never got the code 805 in AC or DC welding.

Attachment 11372

I think I know what it is, and why it needs to be like that, but I have a question. What are the 2T, 4T, Pedal settings when it happens? Also, what are the different options for those settings?
Because there is one big difference between the torch Amptrol and the pedal, that would lead the machine to believe there is a stuck switch.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

I think I know what it is, and why it needs to be like that, but I have a question. What are the 2T, 4T, Pedal settings when it happens? Also, what are the different options for those settings?
Because there is one big difference between the torch Amptrol and the pedal, that would lead the machine to believe there is a stuck switch.

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So as I can understand the foot control is pushed and the switch is turned on then the rheostat (pot) 47K is now being used thru the switch being turned on.
Now with the Amptrol handle is used, it has a switch and a rheostat (pot) 47K separate parts to use press the switch to on relies it then use the Amptrol wheel to change the Amps press the switch again to shut it off.

Yes, you got it. To the welder using the physical pedal when set in the 4T plus pedal mode, would look like a stuck switch, since the physical pedal can't operate the switch separately from the potentiometer. So ideally the software would only set an 805 when using some of the combination modes and the physical pedal. It's more of how things are labeled and maybe some minor software issues, that allow the code to be set. They probably use something like "If switch closed with no welding current longer than x, set stuck switch code". Something that might be tweaked in a later firmware version, but not really a big deal. Just a consequence of how the modes are set and what they are called. The 2T and 4T should really only be used with the torch switch/Amptrol. Also the plain pedal position is really a 2T plus pedal, so that seems redundant. However, having a separate setting could allow the software to make changes like automatically zero out some settings for foot operations. That the pic you posted shows the 805 set in the pedal only mode, that just means that the software is looking for errors that somewhat don't apply to that mode. I can understand why it happens, though as I'm sure it uses the same error checking routine across all modes.
This sounds like a great machine and being a new model there might be a few tweaks that will polish it now that is it out to real users. I really need to order one pretty soon.

Rambozo
It has one little quark.
The PowerTig 255EXT has the Start Amps set to 5-250 Amps AC or DC but when it goes up to Welding Amps it is on DC 3-250 Amps and the End Amps are 3-250 Amps DC.
So as I see it, when in DC mode: Starts Amps will start at 5 Amps lowest, Up Slops to 3 lowest Welding Amps then Down Slops to 3 lowest End Amps.
But AC is Starts Amps at 5-250 Amps Up Slops to 5-250 Welding Amps then Down Slops to 5-250 End Amps.

I have seen something like that before on a different machines. Where it needs a little more start to get a reliable arc and build some heat in the tungsten, but then it can go down and weld at an even lower setting, especially on DC. There is also the actual arc initiation start pulse setting that is probably a little higher. I'm not sure I remember any way to adjust that on this model, though. I think there was a hidden menu for the 210EXT for that. I would be curious to know what that is, if it's a published spec or if someone will measure it. On other machines, I recall the start pulse being around 10-20 amps to get a reliable start.

It does make it sound odd to "upslope" from 5 to 3, but it makes perfect sense.

I'll add the following and let you continue to cogitate...

As I said above, I am working with a difficult material, thin-walled home-store satin anodized aluminum tubing. Cannot use bumping method due to the near blow-through at about the point the anodizing breaks up. I need to grind every weld area and take special care on the work clamp contact point to achieve the best esthetic results.

Until this project, I have never seen Code 805. I do use the pedal in 2T, and also of course in Pedal mode. What I get is the Pedal mode gives me current control, and the 2T gives me instant panel amps. Great feature, use it often. The way the pedal is built, there is a slight disconnect between the switch and the pot. The first 3/8" of travel touch the switch, and after that the gear sector moves the pot shaft. This is better than the older style when you needed to fine tune the switch point, as the belt was already changing the pot value. Not the case with the new pedal, it works very nicely as a foot operated torch switch.

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I have set the AC start amps to 5 (the default lowest value) and then to 25, and get about the same results, which are: In Pedal mode, HF buzzes, enough to trigger my AD helmet (Balder lens), but no arc initiation. Let off pedal, post flow timer runs out, then next time nothing, no click, no pre-flow, no HF, etc. it seems that when it does this it will come back to normal after maybe 15-20 seconds. Then all is fine until it decides to do it again. It acts like an un-grounded work piece.

If it was my Syncrowave 250 I would bump up the HF intensity, but I'd rather that it work at this level than jolting me through the filler rod running right past my neck and ear.

So here are some more data points, keep them coming in so we can make a perfect machine out of a fantastic machine.;)

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

I have seen something like that before on a different machines. Where it needs a little more start to get a reliable arc and build some heat in the tungsten, but then it can go down and weld at an even lower setting, especially on DC. There is also the actual arc initiation start pulse setting that is probably a little higher. I'm not sure I remember any way to adjust that on this model, though. I think there was a hidden menu for the 210EXT for that. I would be curious to know what that is, if it's a published spec or if someone will measure it. On other machines, I recall the start pulse being around 10-20 amps to get a reliable start.

It does make it sound odd to "upslope" from 5 to 3, but it makes perfect sense.

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They should call it the Up/Down Slope.

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Originally Posted by Kempy

Thanks on the green lineup. On page 14 of the online manual it shows the welders 220/240V plug is your not connected to the water cooler so when you turn the welder on it turns the cooler on. The Canadian one has it.
Attachment 11370

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I may have to set up an outlet and wire my pump for 220. My machine is the early release with no rear outlet and the incorrect accessory package, (which should be on their way to us soon). It is such a capable machine, though, these teething pains are just that.

Thanks for the pics, Jim. Now that makes a little more sense, and I see the reason to split off the 2T and pedal settings. I can see that being real useful for speed tacking things up, using the pedal as just a switch. Like the older Miller's where they split off contactor and amperage with two remote/panel switches. Now they just need to add a spot timer, and Bob's your uncle. It sounds like that project is tricky, for sure. Maybe the error checking is just a little too sensitive. At least all that can be tweaked later in firmware. I hear you about cranking up the HF. It's amazing what path it will take when you turn it up. Gloves can become pretty good conductors. One thing I remember with Syncrowaves for real thin AL was that you could crank up the craterfill setting, then it would continue in most of the postflow time. So by tapping the pedal and getting postflow going you could bring the torch up to the material and the craterfill flavor of HF would be going with no arc current. Then you could press the pedal to slowly bring in the arc current without having the initial start pulse. It was a super soft start as long as the tungsten was still warm enough. You could start an arc on foil that way without blowing a hole in it.
This machine sounds like a lot of fun. Keep the info coming.

Oh boy, you just got me thinking...

With all the timers on board the EXT, a guy should be able to spot weld, And We Can!

For a say, 60 amp 2 second spot weld do this:

2T mode
AC or DC your choice,
Pre-flow = 0.5 (my standard setting)
Start amps = 60
Upslope = 0
Welding amps = 60
Downslope = 2.0 sec
End amps = 60

Bingo, just let off the switch as soon as she lights off, and you've got a burn time the duration of your Downslope setting.

These machines are SOOOO cool :D

I had never known of that trick on the Syncrowave crater fill/HF operation, nice little trick. Now had you been able to set the target ending amperage with the crater fill, you'd have had spot welding there, too. That option is not installed on my SW, and always made me want to get it just so the panel had all the knobs! But not so much any more. :cool:

Attachment 11375

Here she is on display in my shop, hasn't had any use since my Legacy EXT showed up.

Onward and Upward!

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Originally Posted by JimMinKent

Oh boy, you just got me thinking...

With all the timers on board the EXT, a guy should be able to spot weld, And We Can!

For a say, 60 amp 2 second spot weld do this:

2T mode
AC or DC your choice,
Pre-flow = 0.5 (my standard setting)
Start amps = 60
Upslope = 0
Welding amps = 60
Downslope = 2.0 sec
End amps = 60

Bingo, just let off the switch as soon as she lights off, and you've got a burn time the duration of your Downslope setting.

These machines are SOOOO cool :D

I had never known of that trick on the Syncrowave crater fill/HF operation, nice little trick. Now had you been able to set the target ending amperage with the crater fill, you'd have had spot welding there, too. That option is not installed on my SW, and always made me want to get it just so the panel had all the knobs! But not so much any more. :cool:

Here she is on display in my shop, hasn't had any use since my Legacy EXT showed up.

Onward and Upward!

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Well that a good trick to know for spot welding with the 255EXT, the 250EX has it built in.

The forum should have a section on TRICKS of the TRADE then we put in thing like Jim’s Spot welding with a 255EXT or TOOLS made to hold parts, Plasma Cutting, Stick Welding, Tig Welding and Mig Welding thing people have found.

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Originally Posted by Kempy

Well that a good trick to know for spot welding with the 255EXT, the 250EX has it built in.

The forum should have a section on TRICKS of the TRADE then we put in thing like Jim’s Spot welding with a 255EXT or TOOLS made to hold parts, Plasma Cutting, Stick Welding, Tig Welding and Mig Welding thing people have found.

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We have an off-topic tips and tricks. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...as-and-Reviews