http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00389
man, you'd have to be a cult member to pay these prices, don't forget the cooler;
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http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00389
man, you'd have to be a cult member to pay these prices, don't forget the cooler;
Nothing to offer over a 250EX and you could buy three 250EX for the price of that thing.
that's the base model. did you click the models and pricing link.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoama585
I guess we will see how the new 255EXT compares to the Miller 280 at over twice the price they been working on it for almost 2 years trying to make it work right.
In addition to sine wave and square wave, it has a triangular wave, which I'd never heard of. I'll have to read up on that- I thought the whole point of controlling the wave was to maximize the time at the extreme ends.
Ouch!!!!!,,,man,, you aren,t kidding,,,had a bad case of sticker shock,, my knees got wobbly,,,when I opened that up,,,has to be a missprint,,,decimals are out of place,,,or,,something to that effect....Quote:
Originally Posted by fdcmiami
Must be the worldwide shortage of blue paint driving up the price. Can you actually buy one now, or is this just another page that will vanish into the smoke and mirrors like the last time they posted it?
you could not only buy the 250EX's you would have enough left over to hire people to run them in your shop..lolQuote:
Originally Posted by zoama585
The PowerTig 255EXT has all the same wave forms to the Miller 280. also see Pics.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveO
Attachment 10933
Attachment 10934
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/do...TIG-255ext.pdf
Looks like the mythological Dynasty 280 is ALIVE!!bawahahaha. It lives!!:O
Noticed a few things. It happens to have a easy start up too. Not sure if it works identical to ours, but we have one. Looks like they get you a limited, but fairly useable set of features on the regular 280, but stick you for an extra 600 bucks to get the good stuff.
Looks like they have rolled out upgradeable software. Which appears to give expanded features/performance for a price. You pay to play so to speak. We have an internal interface in ours that allows us to do "approved" upgrades. It could be moved to a USB port I imagine at the rear of the machine, but then how many of you guys would want to go monkeying around with the software??? Yeah. You know who you are. lol. Given the popularity of the arduino thread, we have our likely suspects.lol.
The Miller and Everlast Duty Cycle on the Miller 280DX and Everlast 255EXT also to get Miller with the Cart, Cooler, Torches, Regulator, Ground clamp, Stick holder and Foot pedal is around $8000.00 Everlast $3000.00 list price.
Miller 280 DX
1-Phase Duty Cycle
Stick (SMAW)-----------TIG (GTAW)
280 A, 10%------------280 A, 25%
180 A, 60%------------235 A, 60%
160 A, 100%----------200 A, 100%
Everlast 255EXT
1-Phase Duty Cycle
Stick (SMAW)-----------TIG (GTAW)
225 A, 60% 29V--------250 A, 60% 20 V
175 A, 100% 18V-------200 A, 100% 18 V
Duty cycle really falls off for those last few amps. Seems like they are really pushing the machine. I wonder what that will do for the longevity. I still wonder if the thing is really available. I sure don't see it online anywhere, and I'm waiting for a call back from my Miller dealer LWS. They had no way to order one through their standard channels.
I do like that the AC balance range is from 50% to 99% on the DX model. I never understood why some machines go down to like 20% EN on balance. I think in the best industrail designs, with both controls and gauges, the most common settings should be mid scale. It was that way on the Syncrowave where 50% was at #3, but then they changed that. You can always get super high amounts of EP if you want by swapping leads.
I hear they use solid gold bars to produce that paint.:O Couple that to the fact oil prices are so high (paint being a petroleum product and all), and you instantly discover why this unit costs so much. The reason is that Miller is counting on their dedicated supporters to overlook the machine's pitfalls and price, and instead focus on it's "innovative features and technology." That logic hasn't failed them in the past, has it?;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
Good point! Though actual stickers aren't involved, stenciling the letters M-I-L-L-E-R over paint that is produced from solid gold and oil is a tricky process, and would be yet another reason for them asking such high prices for this (and all other) units. Again, it's the petroleum that is driving up the cost of their products. It's not Millers fault their machines are so expensive! Miller is your friend, a company who only wants the best for you, a company who is on your side...with both hands out.Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer
Did you really believe they were in the business of using their loyal customers to profit heavily? Me too.
Ya that thing is not cheap, but one is designed and assembled in the USA and one is "designed" and assembled in China. A bit of an apples oranges comparison wrt price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5440
No, not really, don't think it's apples and oranges at all. What most people are interested in comparing is cost, features, warranty and performance. The others are secondary issues for a lot of people. The design for our unit started right here in the US. I don't think you have any idea of how much work we did here on our side... I wouldn't automatically assume all the design was totally done here in the US with Miller either. Remember they have a chinese factory, and engineers there, and elsewhere throughout the world. It could have been outsourced. And from the sound of it, this unit has had design/production issues from Miller, which is only "assembled" here, and that really only can mean that they are slapping the final major components in and screwing the cover on...with the bulk of it premade off shore.
Ya know that's a strike against to some of us out here. :) (Not representitive of most of your customers I'm sure, and not necessarily a strike against compared to Chinese engineering...)Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
So for the uninitiated, what's the typical Miller difference between MSRP and what you actually pay? 30%?
Not sure I understand Paul...We began our process on our welder and features with a lot of customer input and requests and went from there, from broad, general to specific features, functionality etc....then when we were ready with the primary concept and process tree including design parameters, we went to the factory with our design, they worked on it from there, with continual visits to the factory for testing, and then preproduction testing with a limited build in the US, reworked a few things, and then came back to the factory with alterations and a few workarounds etc, and the incorporated them, and came back with a little more testing rounds and then finalization, then went to the factory with production. There are significant changes in some functionality from our original design for reliability, simplicity etc. This has been a cooperative effort on both sides of the aisle.
The MSRP is usually never paid for with Miller, however, most local retail chains price their units not so much as a % discount off mrsp, but focus on a percent markup over cost...Usually 5-25% margin. My guess is that on average, it's probably 15-25% off msrp if you buy locally.
Ahh, just ribbin' ya. As a customer, I really do appreciate your product and efforts. :) But I gotta get you back for 100 years of Detroit rust buckets. :) But seriously, outside the US "made in the USA" isn't a great calling card anymore.
Thanks for the info: puts it in perspective. I'm very happy with my Everlast machine and wouldn't hesitate to buy another. I've messed around with some of Miller's electronics and haven't been really impressed, but I've never had to cut a cheque for their gear!
Yeah Paul I hear you,,,you are old school like me,,,know value when you see it,,,ditto on the Everlast support,,Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Moir
http://www.millerchina.com/Ch/Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer
i track itw, miller actually has five plants in china. or, they had four and were opening another; not sure of status of fifth
i would not hold this against miller, it mostly their fans that are in denial about the manufacturing locations. they could not survive in a global market without taking advantage of the
reduced labor costs offered by other countries.
"fans that are in denial",,,they say the worst deception is self deception,,,we live in a gobal world and some people live in their own little world,,,Good to hear from you fdcmiami,,,you have shed light on the subject,,,
Looking over on the WW thread about this unit, it's like there's blue drool coming out the sides of their mouths. Honestly they don't realize that the likely reason they have brought out something like the 280, is because of pressure from the 250EX and the warm reception of both hobby guys and professionals it and other units like it have gotten. The blue guys upper management are nearly always poking around our booths at shows...trying to be vague, but specific enough to know these products have gotten under their skin...and under their bottom line. They will always have the blue elite buyers who can afford such expenditures, but where we are building brand loyalty is with guys who are getting started in this business, or retired but don't want to quit. We're also getting into a number of welding schools. Had a call from a welding teacher today about a unit to go into a trade school as a replacement for a blue unit...quite frequent occurrence these days. No, we're not up to Miller's stellar reputation yet, but when they have set the entry bar sooo high, they've alienated lots of people who are trying to put food on the table with the least amount of investment, and have turned many our way.
It's pretty amazing what is being made in China nowadays. The quality isn't all that bad either. Honestly, the quality many times is better than what is made here. I'm still freaked it by how good my 200DX is. A friend of mine who runs a stainless steel welding business for the agricultural market was blown away at how sweet the machine operated. He has about 4 or 5 Miller Dynasty's that he loves But he's starting to rethink whether "Green" is the new " Blue" ...
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I think I'd rather have my 225LX, cooler, Ck torch and 3K's worth of insurance:O. Yeah, I don't melt metal for a living but I just don't see it being worth that much more. Heck, you could store 2 spare machines in the toolroom and still be .5-1K ahead...:D