What keeps the 200DX from running the 6010 rods?
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What keeps the 200DX from running the 6010 rods?
I can't speak for the 200dx specifically, but usually the answer is insufficient arc voltage. 6010 only runs right at a higher OCV. At lower OCV the arc becomes unstable and goes out easily. Inverter welders can operate fine at lower OCV, which contributes to their efficiency, but they don't run 6010 well unless they're specifically designed for it.
... personally, I have always wondered what the fuss is with 6010. It's got this near-mythological reputation. I know it's what's specced for most pipe welding jobs, but I always find myself wondering if there's really that much difference between 6010 and 6011.
I use the miller and Lincoln inverters at work and they weld very good. I have used 6010,7010,7018dc, 309ss.....and others and they weld fine. I just ordered a 200dx, should be here sometime next week. Does this machine have a much lower OVC than the blue and red machine?
don't remember ever running any 6011s. Are they just AC rods?Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuab
You can pick up 6011 rods made for AC or DC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rus T1
They can be run AC. The intent was to develop a rod very much like 6010, but able to be run on AC-only welders. That being said, they run fine on DC as well, and are a good choice for someone wanting a 6010-like rod that can be run on a welder with too low an OCV to run 6010 successfully. But if you have a welder that can run 6010, I don't think there's much reason to choose 6011 instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rus T1
I'm going to have to defer to an Everlast representative on this one, and you may have to wait until Monday for an answer. I don't know the answer for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rus T1
People say its OCV, but it is really arc voltage while welding. For 7018, 24 volts or so is all that is needed for most welding. For 6010 you are going to be between 28 and 30 something for the same given amperage and size rod. Miller Dynasty 200's have difficulty competently running 6010 in the past. They may have changed something recently, I don't know.
Sorry--you're right. I sometimes get lazy and use those interchangeably, but of course they're different.Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
Mark, I know that the1780 comes in AC or DC, and Mr120 said that the 6011 came in AC or DC. Will the 200dx run the DC version of these rods with no problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
my bad...... meant 7018
Mr. 120 wasn't exactly correct.
7018 AC rods are both AC and DC. In fact, technically a standard 7018 is supposed to be able to weld with AC. I have, and the flux is a little sticky with Ac, but it works.
6011 Rods are DC and AC. They aren't picky.
The 200DX will run every rod that I can think of except 6010, and it's possible to get an arc, but the stability is not good with it.
I think you may be a little confused about the rods. Some rods, like 6011 or 7018, are DC-only. If you try to run them on AC, the arc will be very unstable and will go out all the time. The reason for this is that, with AC current, there is a period as the voltage is crossing from + to - or back again where the voltage is at zero. This happens 120 times a second with 60 HZ. When this happens, the arc is likely to go out. Many rods can be run on both DC and AC. These rods have stabilizers in the flux that help keep the arc lit as the voltage passes through the zero-point. Examples of stabilizers include increased amounts of potassium and iron powder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rus T1
An important point to remember is that AC rods can always be run on DC, but DC rods cannot be run on AC. So a better way to categorize the rods would be DC-only and AC/DC. So, for example, 6011 can be run on both AC and DC but 6010 can only be run on DC. There is a version of 7018 (DC-only) that can be run on AC called 7018AC. It can be run on DC too if you want to, but if you have a DC welder, may as well just get the standard 7018.
Most rods, I think, come in only one version. So 6010 is DC, 6011 is AC/DC, 6013 is AC/DC, 7014 is AC/DC, 7018 is DC only. The only one I can think of that specifically has an "AC" suffix is 7018AC. It's funny, though. When they made an "AC version" of 6010, they just called it 6011. So why did they stick an "AC" suffix on 7018 instead of giving it an entirely different number?
Joshua, you are a little wrong on this. Most 7018 and all 6011 are DC and AC. It has been this way for years. In fact many of your earliest transformer welders, those big copper things they had that weight several hundred pounds and didn't even have fans were AC, and 6011 and 7018 was all they have ever seen. You should look it up. In fact many 6011's could be run DC- or DC+ for that reason. Not all but in years past, some were labeled as such. I was welding 7018 since I was a kid with a Sears and Roebuck transformer AC buzzbox, without the standard "AC" designation, and many of your older texts tell you it can be run either way.
I think we're saying the same thing about 6011. But I thought 7018 was DC only. Kind of seems silly to sell 7018AC if you can run AC with regular old 7018, but what do I know? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
My bad. Yes, Performance is right about the 6011. I was going by memory and unfortunately my memory ain't what it used to be!Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
I can't think of an application that anyone other than a pipe fitter woudl use a 6010 rod. It is pretty much used to met a spec. A 6011 rod will achieve the same thing in 99% of applications, especially for generic/general welding.
Stop by any farm and I'd bet have 6011 rods on hand, possibly as the only rod they use.
This is what I've always wondered. Some folks use 6010 because they've got a spec that calls for it, but how does it really run different than 6011? I've never run 6010, so I've never been able to find out. Someone once said that 6010 is about the only rod that you can run downhill, which pipe-fitters sometimes do... kind of makes me want to run some 6011 downhill and see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportbike
6011 downhill will work just fine- your "someone" is a bit misinformed! In a 4-digit electrode number, the third digit is "position". A 1 in slot three means "all position". This decoder ring gives more info:Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuab
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ns-detail.aspx
Interesting that the "position" digit 1 is listed as being good for flat, horizontal, vertical down, and overhead. No mention of vertical up at all. And yet it's my impression that vertical up is more common than vertical down, except in pipelining.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveO
Not quite. 1 is ALL position. 4 is the one that is flat, horz, vert down, and overhead.Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuab
Mark, Just so I understand correctly, I can run any rod that AC/DC in DC mode with the 200DX?
DaveO, thanks for that link. I put that in my favorites, it took a lot of guessing out for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
Man, I shouldn't get on the Internet before I've had my coffee. Thanks. Duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
Absolutely. Again, the only rod you can't handle is 6010. Everything else welds great, including stainless rods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rus T1
The key difference between 6010 and 6011 is the voltage your welder puts out,,,6011 runs at 25 volts,,,6010 runs at 26 -29 volts,,,this means that 6010 can weld at lower amps than 6011,,however 6011 is a later version of a paper cover rod and works on both Ac and DC...6011 is the better choice and is more popular than 6010,,, I started on 6010 cause that was all there was...6011 is now my rod of choice...Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuab
Thank you. I am looking forward to getting this machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
Glad it's useful to you! Let us in on the official unveiling!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rus T1