Cnc plasma cutting problems

Hey guys I'm new to site and just recently got everything set up to run my 2x2 cnc table. So for a bit of back ground info, I bought the torchmate unit, the plasma cutter is an everlast 60s blowback with a tramifet cnc machine torch ( I know I know it's not a hypertherm but the reviews and functions of this machine where excellent for the price ) I have wired the cnc control box to the plasma cutter wiring in pins 1 and 2 like supposed to. The problem I'm having is when I go to test the plasma cutter though the aux menu nothing happens? I don't know if this is relevant but when I change from 2t to 4t the plasma turns on and runs continuously with no control from the software. All I'm trying to do is a line test cut on some 14 gauge steel and and having a heck of a time trying to get it to work properly. I'm new to the fabrication world so any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Originally Posted by FeddFab

Hey guys I'm new to site and just recently got everything set up to run my 2x2 cnc table. So for a bit of back ground info, I bought the torchmate unit, the plasma cutter is an everlast 60s blowback with a tramifet cnc machine torch ( I know I know it's not a hypertherm but the reviews and functions of this machine where excellent for the price ) I have wired the cnc control box to the plasma cutter wiring in pins 1 and 2 like supposed to. The problem I'm having is when I go to test the plasma cutter though the aux menu nothing happens? I don't know if this is relevant but when I change from 2t to 4t the plasma turns on and runs continuously with no control from the software. All I'm trying to do is a line test cut on some 14 gauge steel and and having a heck of a time trying to get it to work properly. I'm new to the fabrication world so any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Does the controller latch or pulse, are they dry contacts? Might be best to call our toll free number and hit exit 203 while at the unit with an ohm meter.

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Originally Posted by FeddFab

Hey guys I'm new to site and just recently got everything set up to run my 2x2 cnc table. So for a bit of back ground info, I bought the torchmate unit, the plasma cutter is an everlast 60s blowback with a tramifet cnc machine torch ( I know I know it's not a hypertherm but the reviews and functions of this machine where excellent for the price ) I have wired the cnc control box to the plasma cutter wiring in pins 1 and 2 like supposed to. The problem I'm having is when I go to test the plasma cutter though the aux menu nothing happens? I don't know if this is relevant but when I change from 2t to 4t the plasma turns on and runs continuously with no control from the software. All I'm trying to do is a line test cut on some 14 gauge steel and and having a heck of a time trying to get it to work properly. I'm new to the fabrication world so any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Hook up a push button to pins 1 and 2 and try it without the cable to your CNC. In 2T it should come on as long as you hold the button down, on 4T tap the button once to start and tap again to end. That will narrow down your trouble shooting to which piece of equipment you need to look at. Are you using the Torchmate arc voltage torch height control?

The controller has pulsed once out of like 20 different tries, the rest of the time when I try to turn the torch on from the torchmate software just to test it to see if the two are connected it doesn't do anything. It's like it's not even connecting to my control box. Saying that when I use the hand torch to do stuff off the table the machine works flawless but it's just not working with the cnc. And I spent 500+ getting a machine torch for it so I hope it's just operator error and I'm missing something but as far as I can see the torch should be firing when I tell it to and it's not. The only way I can get it to fire is by change the setting on the everlast machine itself, please help lol! I will try the switch idea but I am leaching the switch to do that right now. Thanks for the help

Also not using avhc, I have a manual machine torch mount

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Originally Posted by FeddFab

The controller has pulsed once out of like 20 different tries, the rest of the time when I try to turn the torch on from the torchmate software just to test it to see if the two are connected it doesn't do anything. It's like it's not even connecting to my control box. Saying that when I use the hand torch to do stuff off the table the machine works flawless but it's just not working with the cnc. And I spent 500+ getting a machine torch for it so I hope it's just operator error and I'm missing something but as far as I can see the torch should be firing when I tell it to and it's not. The only way I can get it to fire is by change the setting on the everlast machine itself, please help lol! I will try the switch idea but I am leaching the switch to do that right now. Thanks for the help

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If torchmate is a dry contact (relay) and it latches on until cutting is done. This should work fine. See what the torchmate output is.

As Rambozo said you need find out if you problem is with the CNC computer controller or the plasma unit. If you are using the Trafimet p81 machine torch that is not a blow back type torch but a pilot arc and I don’t think it will work with you plasma unit. Do you have a 60 or 60C the 60 is blow back and the 60C is high voltage/low frequency. The trafimet A81 or P81 torch will work with the 60C.
Do you have a multi meter you can check the output from the controller by selecting the ohm meter and checking the pin output, When you tell it to turn on the torch you should see 0 ohms on meter and no ohms when torch off is used.

Thanks for the replys, first off the torchmate controller DOES have a relay where the wires get fastened into and that is also removable. Second I have tried to make a complete circuit by touching wires together while machine is running and no success so I'm thinking its something in the machine. The machine is an everlast 60s with the blow back torch, also the torch I'm using is a tramifet s75 and I was told when I bought this machine that it would come pre wired for cnc. I've been trying to sort this out all afternoon with no luck :(

If I hear what you are saying that you short the wires going to the 60S and it does not fire there is a problem with the 60S.
Her is something from the manual

Arc will not start. Air will not flow. Machine runs. Torch cup is loose, safety contact pins dirty or not making contact with cup face. Torch switch wire is loose. Problem with Central connector. Torch is not properly connected.

I think you have a problem wit the torch wiring see the attached image of the torch parts.
These wires were not in the right place in the connector on my torch and my torch would fire when the plasma unit was turned on, never off until power off. They are a safety so if the tip cover is not tight you get no air/fire from the torch. Mine were wired to pins were to go to the button on the torch handle and that is why it fired all the time. From the statement above it looks like they are in series with the signal from the CNC plug to allow the plasma fire if the cover is on correctly. You may need Everlast techs to help with this.

Also as Tom mentioned if you have a blowback machine without a blowback torch, you will only be able to contact start. It looks like the S75 machine torch is blowback, but I can't tell for sure from the documentation. Everlast's previous machine torch wasn't blowback. The 60S is a blowback machine. For the moment just see if the airflow starts and stops when the unit is triggered. Then you can worry about the actual arc starts. You might have more than one problem, but it sounds like it's all little configuration stuff, so I'm sure you can get it sorted. Just approach it step by step and try not to assume anything or skip over things. Just makes troubleshooting take longer in the end.

Ok so for tonight I've ruled out that it isn't my control box, hooked up an ohm meter to the relay switch and turned on the plasma via computer to make sure that it was sending the signal which it is. So like acourtjester said earlier it is definitely in the machine. Just so everyone is clear on the torch situation I have two egrocut s75 torches, one is the hand torch ( which I use off the cnc table ) and the other is the machine torch for the cnc, both torches are blow back design and the consumables are interchangeable. So saying that I did check the cup and everything is tight and safety pins are pushed in, and still no luck. I also wanted to clear up that I am getting air either constant or timed flow depending on what I have it set at, but still no arc when told by my computer.

Attachment 10347
That is my set up

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Originally Posted by FeddFab

Ok so for tonight I've ruled out that it isn't my control box, hooked up an ohm meter to the relay switch and turned on the plasma via computer to make sure that it was sending the signal which it is. So like acourtjester said earlier it is definitely in the machine. Just so everyone is clear on the torch situation I have two egrocut s75 torches, one is the hand torch ( which I use off the cnc table ) and the other is the machine torch for the cnc, both torches are blow back design and the consumables are interchangeable. So saying that I did check the cup and everything is tight and safety pins are pushed in, and still no luck. I also wanted to clear up that I am getting air either constant or timed flow depending on what I have it set at, but still no arc when told by my computer.

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Ok that narrows it down. If the air solenoid is activated by your computer, then everything is hooked up right, and working. There has to be a problem in your blowback machine torch. Verify that the piston moves properly, and is not jammed. You can also swap out your hand torch yet trigger it with the CNC, as a test, but I'm sure that would work and isn't very useful. However, you can compare both torches to look for and irregularities between them, and make sure everything works the same.

Here is something for you to do now .
check the pins on both torches to see if they are the same. You can take the cover off the torches where it attaches to the plasma unit see it the same pins are used. one thing that will be different is the machine torch should not have the button switch wired this may be the 2 pins on either side of the square locator of the plug at the top that is the button connections for the hand torch. If you do not have a switch between CNC control and manual torch control you should be able to check the pins between the CNC jack and front torch jack. If you have the Euro connection on the front one of the pins next to the square locator (button pins) should show 0 ohns to pins 1 or 2 on the CNC jack in the back. and the same for the other side of the locator to pin 1 or 2 on the CNC jack. front left pin to 1 on the back and front right pin to 2 on the back may be reversed but that what I mean.
What I am saying is the CNC jack should be hooked the same as the button pins on the front jack.
That is the CNC controller is just making the same circuit as the button on the torch to fire the torch.

I will try investigating this more tomorrow and comparing torches and what not, and will post results mid afternoon. Thanks again for help.

Make sure your swirl ring is properly installed. You may need to look at the torch pinout. There are several positions that can be used for the wiring. Trafimet's stock pinout may need to be re done. Trafimet shows in their manuals how many different configurations are typically possible.

Ok so I got a little anxious and decided to try using the hand held torch on the machine and using the cnc controls to turn the torch on and off and I'm glad that it worked. I was able to control the Hand torch through my computer however still no luck with machine torch. I took both torches apart to compare wiring and both looked the same. I also check the safety pins with an ohm meter to the end of the hose where the pins come out and am getting continuity on both pins on both the hand held torch and the machine torch so I'm kind of stumped, I took some pics of the torches apart if this helps Attachment 10348

Here the machine torchAttachment 10350

Have a look at this for a basic checkover of the torch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyKMP...tailpage&t=233

Be sure the electrode piston is free to move in your machine torch. That is required for an arc start.

I believe if you had a problem with the safety system, you wouldn't get the air solenoid to fire.

FYI: S series are blow back torches.

OK finally got the ohm meter check. Next question n case I missed it with all the post here. Does it not work with both torches via the computer? Does is work with both torches and no computer?

Swirl ring could do it too. Some have to be in a certain side up, not sure on the S75.

I have hooked up both torches to the computer and the hand torch works correctly as it should however the machine torch does not. I've checked that the piston works and everything is functioning properly as far as that goes. I'm gonna take the lead ends apart when I get home and keep investigating

Thats were my problem was goog luck!
If you noticed the hand trigger was conneted to the torch tip cover in series with it.
The CNC connector pins must be in series with the trigger leads on the front jack for the torch.
The CNC computer control replaces the hand trigger to turn the torch on/off.

I'm kind of at a point of confusion right now, I have taken apart the leads that plug into the machine to see if there wired up the same and everything looks the same other than the white safety pin wire is wired into the opposite pin as it is on the hand torch. But I don't think this should mater Because its still wired to make a complete circuit. However I still don't fully understand why my hand torch is working when I command it to through the cnc pins 1 and 2 at the back of the machine but the machine torch is not. I don't know if I mentioned this earlier but when I turn the machine on in the 2t setting ( using the machine torch ) it fires the plasma right away an doesn't shut off until I either switch it to the 4t setting or actually shut the machine down. I feel like I've narrowed it down to something is wrong with the machine torch wiring but still not sure what. I'm hoping I can figure this out today but if not I will be calling everlast tomorrow. Please keep the ideas rolling :)

Any one know where I could find a wiring diagram for this machine ?

Dream on, you cannot get a schematic for it or any of them!!!
Here is a simple drawing of how I think it is hooked up.I think the wiring on the machine torch is not right.
YOu should not have on all the time.

The pinout has changed a couple of times, and with different builds. As long as they match up to work, it seems our request for a standardization, has been ignored by the factory. I actually think it's a torch maker issue since the factory doesn't rewire the torches from Trafimet china.

First, just to rule out any possibility, change the white wire. Then, I'd also change out the consumables on the working S-75 to the CNC torch and see if it goes. I suspect something there to be the issue. If you got an intermittent fire off, as I think you said that you did, something isn't just right in the torch consumable/head department.

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Originally Posted by FeddFab

I don't know if I mentioned this earlier but when I turn the machine on in the 2t setting ( using the machine torch ) it fires the plasma right away an doesn't shut off until I either switch it to the 4t setting or actually shut the machine down. I feel like I've narrowed it down to something is wrong with the machine torch wiring but still not sure what. I'm hoping I can figure this out today but if not I will be calling everlast tomorrow. Please keep the ideas rolling :)

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No I don't think you did mention that. It sheds some light on what you have, too. If it fires all the time on 2T then somehow it is wired to short pins 1 and 2. The safety pins should be wired in series to the trigger (1 & 2) pins so they both have to be completed to fire. It sounds like your setup might be wired in parallel so either will fire. I'm not sure if this is something you can fix by making changes to the torch wiring. You should have the safety hooked up even on a machine torch. It sounds like you will have to investigate the pinout of the plug to see if you can correct this with torch wiring alone.

Ok so after dissasembling both torches and testing different circuits with an ohm meter for an hour I finally got some success, the hand torch would work with a open circuit, but as soon as I closed the circuit ( held down the trigger ) and tried to fire the plasma via computer it would not fire. So that told me that it would only work on the machine torchif the circuit was open and it was, the safety pins was making a close circuit and not allowing the computer to fire the plas. So what I did to test this is pulled one of the pins on the euro connection and tested it and sure as #### it worked! I don't know why it's wired like this but I'm still going to call everlast tomorrow and see what they say but I DO have the machine torch functioning. Let me know what you guys think and thanks for your input !

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Originally Posted by FeddFab

Ok so after dissasembling both torches and testing different circuits with an ohm meter for an hour I finally got some success, the hand torch would work with a open circuit, but as soon as I closed the circuit ( held down the trigger ) and tried to fire the plasma via computer it would not fire. So that told me that it would only work on the machine torchif the circuit was open and it was, the safety pins was making a close circuit and not allowing the computer to fire the plas. So what I did to test this is pulled one of the pins on the euro connection and tested it and sure as #### it worked! I don't know why it's wired like this but I'm still going to call everlast tomorrow and see what they say but I DO have the machine torch functioning. Let me know what you guys think and thanks for your input !

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I figured that would work but now you have no safety. Not sure you want that or not. I bet if you trigger the cnc, the machine with start even without a torch plugged in. Again probably not something you want. They should use different pins for the safety and trigger, but it sounds like they don't. Or they could wire the CNC plug in series, but then you would need to plug in a special jumper plug to use the hand torch. I have seen just that setup on some Hyperthem units.

Ya that makes sense, for now I'm gonna call everlast and see what they say tomorrow and go from there.

My trafimet machine torch had the safety wires from the ring going to the switch pins at the connector and would fire the torch at power on, off with power off. soulds like you have the same problem.