i just got given a 35 ft long 50amp ext cord once used on a rv it is 6/3 with a 8 gage ground this will give me the movement i need in my work area
Printable View
i just got given a 35 ft long 50amp ext cord once used on a rv it is 6/3 with a 8 gage ground this will give me the movement i need in my work area
That's a pretty nice gift. Nice thick cord like that won't have very much voltage lost to it at all.
You have some very nice friends Travis. A cable like that is over a bill here if you buy new. 35' might just be long enough to reach anywhere in a small shop/garage. What kind of connectors does it have on it?
one end has a male 4 plug other end is loose
4 plugs? It might be a nema 14-50p. Does it look like this?
Attachment 9348
If it does you are in luck cus that's a dual voltage plug. You can run 240v and 120v with that cord. Great for having a grinder or saw handy where your welding.
That's exactly my plan for an eventual welding cart - provide 240V and 120V power on the cart itself (with a NEMA 6-50 receptacle for the welder and standard 20A receptacles for whatever else), with a hard mounted cord from the card that will plug into the wall. I'll probably end up buying an RV cord off Amazon and chopping off the receptacle end and just using the plug and maybe 25' of cord to reach anywhere in my garage or driveway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanh
Cool score! It would be sweet if that was dual voltage!
Looks like I need to find some new friends...Or find friends in the first place!
male plug looks like that yes and i have a black red and white wire along with a green ground wire
ok so how do i run dual voltage ? i was thinking that today it would be nice to have a 110 and 220 all togather
Well, I plan to build 2 metal boxes on my cart that are the same size as a standard galvanized electrical junction box that you'd mount to a wall stud. In one of these boxes, I"ll mount a NEMA 6-50 outlet, and in the other I'll mount a standard 120V outlet, then put standard cover plates on them. Basically, it'll be just like installing a couple of wall outlets, but it'll be on the cart. As for the wiring, I'll run the black, red, and green wires of the cord to the NEMA 6-50 outlet. I'll also run the black and white (neutral) wires, plus the green for ground, over to the 120V outlet/box. Then, when the 4-conductor plug is plugged into the wall, I can plug in a welder and/or any 120V tool to the cart, and I'll be mobile.
I'd recommend discussing this with an electrician before you actually wire anything up yourself - it's always a good practice to get an expert to check on your work when with high voltage/current like this! (and yes, I'm making a basic CYA statement)
The big problem with that is that you will have 50 amps of 120V! Not the best thing to run small power tools on because something like a locked up motor will probably not pop the breaker, and set fire to it instead. The best thing would be to add a smaller circuit breaker to your cart to provide better protection for 120V.Quote:
Originally Posted by travis
To be blunt, if you have to ask about it, it's probably not something you should be doing. If you do plan to go ahead, please at least use a power strip with a circuit breaker on your cart.
BTW, that is not your typical RV plug, but a standard 120/240 plug. You can get receptacles for that at Home Depot. Most RV plugs use the NEMA TT-30.
Fair enough. I hadn't researched the case of whether or not an over-current on just one of the 120V legs would trip the 240V breaker. Electrically providing the right power is one thing - doing it safely is another. If I have to mount a little pony panel on my cart, it's a non-starter and I'm not going to bother doing it. I'm definitely going to consult with a licensed electrician before wiring up my cart, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
I wonder if electric stoves and clothes dryers, which use a 4-conductor plug to provide 240V for the main heating element and 120V for the control electronics protect the condition you describe? Wondering if they have internal fuses on the 120V circuits, or if the current they'd pull, even in the even of a failure, would be small enough to not cause a problem. I could certainly see how a little electronic circuit board might not pull the same current as a jammed motor.
Upon further research, a short on EITHER hot leg of a 2P breaker would trip the entire breaker (both sides). However, it would still take 50A to do that, which would NOT be safe to run through all the 120V wiring (which would only be rated to about 20A), including the 120V outlet, the tool's power cord, and the tool itself.
So yes - any 120V circuits on the cart should absolutely have some sort of protection at a much lower current (20A). I don't think a circuit breaker on a power strip would be enough, unless perhaps the power strip was hard wired instead of plugged into the 120V outlet. It would probably be easiest to just run 2 cords from the cart to the wall - one for 240V and one for 120V. I got a little ahead of myself - thanks for bringing me back into line!
Yes, most large appliances provide protection for each load inside. Usually with fuses soldered on the circuit boards. As you found out, over current on either leg will trip both of them. In fact a lot of two pole breakers are just two single pole breakers with the handles pinned together. Magnetic starters are the same, but use a different method to trip all lines, even if there is only a problem on one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttonHawg
A sub panel on the cart would be the right way, so I can understand that you might want to pass on that. Two cords also means that if you are just using 120V you won't need to haul out that heavy cable. I have 100 feet of 6/4 on my welder and I dread coiling or uncoiling that monster. But check with an electrician and go over your options. You might like just the one cable and if you do it safely there is no problem. The cost will be much the same either way.
How about just wiring in a power strip with a built in 20A breaker on it?
so theres no way to wire a 11o off the rv cord ?
That's probably what I would do for myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportbike
There is, but to do it safely requires that you provide some lower amp protection for the 20A outlets. If you are at all unsure, get an electrician to wire it up for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by travis
Isnt that the proper way to learn how to do something? Ask first and follow directions? Sure as hell beats guess and ask how to fix later. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
To cover everybody's bottom side, I'll say consult with a qualified electrician first. Over here usually only the stove has dual voltage cus it has to run lights and electronics on 120v. Most dryers and washers use the Nema 6-30 with few exceptions.
This is what I did on my stove receptacle. Code here says you have to have at least a single gang wall mounted box for any junction and any 240v line should have only 1 receptacle/appliance on it. That might mean that if you don't have that type plug near your garage, you'll probably have to run cable. If you do then it's all good.
The 240v is gotten from the red and black cables. They are both 120v with 180 degree phase shift. Neutral is not used on 240v and ground is for safety. The 120v should be taken from the red and white (neutral) wires. I say red cus it's convention to keep the same phase as the rest of the 120v in your house and that's usually the red wire. So a 20amp breaker should be put on the red wire going to the 120v receptacle. This means you should have 3 boxes. One for 240v, another for the inline fuse/breaker and one for the 120v. And since you'll be using the welder in a designated "damp" space (garage or outside) you'll need a gcfi for the 120v and the 240v Should have weather sealing. Here's a diagram that may help.
Attachment 9349
Just to make sure you know, it's not good practice to ground the neutral as a shortcut. If there was a case of a hot short the neutral would be live and so would any ground that on your equipment. Ouch! Hope this helps. :)
BTW 120V circuits in a house are split evenly over both hot legs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanh
Asking a few questions on a forum, is probably not adequate information for playing around with something that can be lethal. While it's true that you can follow directions and just hook up the wires as someone tells you to. If you don't understand what you are doing and why, you will not be able to tell what is safe and what isn't. For example, what if someone before you didn't follow color codes, would that be obvious to someone just following instructions? Or how to make sure you are not creating a ground loop? If someone wants to learn and is willing to do the research, that's great and if they have a specific question about something they don't understand, then asking for help is great. But if they just want someone to tell them what wires to hook where and are blindly following instructions, then they need to call a professional to do it for them. That isn't even counting the crazy liability laws and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneJackson
I heard an old guy who put it this way; "Long before OSHA we had a little thing called personal responsibility."
I'm for more personal responsibility and less corrupt government... for every good thing osha does it does ten more bad. Attachment 9350Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
Only ten? You're a lot more generous than I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoama585
Didn't see that you said that already on your earlier reply. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
Well, thank you for the correction. I was always under the impression that only 1 was used but that's may be due to the old wiring in my house. (+80yo) The more I deconstruct this place the more I'm amazed at how It's still up. :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo
A lot of us are DIYers and would undertake the tasks ourselves with a lot of research and consultation. This is purely my opinion, but before all this regulation and stuff that bit about personal responsibility was used every day. It doesn't make sense to me, to throw a lot of money into a task, that can be done by you safely with proper knowledge, by hiring a "professional". Although he does have more experience and knowledge, the amount of that required for some jobs is minimal compared to how much he would charge. Wiring a whole house or upgrading service is a different story, for me. That is something I would call an electrician for. Running a new line or splicing, I feel confident I know enough to do safely, having researched and done it before. YMMV
All I'm saying is that although we're telling you to seek advice and be careful, we''re not out to discourage anybody from doing things for themselves. Just be smart about it and ask the right questions. In fact, ask what questions you should be asking. ;)
That's what I was thinking... more like 99%
I know it is to protect but good lord! OSHA = taking at least 2x as long to do, costing 4x as much, and lasting 1/2 as long.
what iam thinking this 50 amp rv cord has 3 6gage and a 8gage groundits 35 foot long
i have a short piece of 6/3 "black white and green" thats just right to run from my panel down a couple feet to a outlet box
why cant i use black and white as hot green ground like a 3wire is on the female box on end of cord use red and black only nip off the red cause it will not be connected on other end and use a 3 prong male from the welder
will this work ok ?
There should no reason that you couldn't leave the red conductor completely unused, and just pretend your 35 foot piece of wire only has 2 6-gage conductors with an 8-gage ground. If you clip off the red on one end of the wire, probably best to clip it on both ends. Don't attach the red on either end. Then all you have is a heavy-duty 50A extension cord that physically weighs more than it needs to in order to do the job, but it was free so it's all good! But I'll defer to Rambozo on this one - he already pointed out something I overlooked earlier, so maybe I missed something again :)
i think what ever color is the long prongs on both sides and the round one is ground just dont hook anything to the flat center prong or iam i makeing this harder then it really is
I'm really hesitant to say anything because it really sounds like you are over your head on this task. It might just be that you are being brief and leaving out things that you take for granted. For example, you say you have a short run of wire to use from your panel to an outlet. Well that would need to be enclosed in the appropriate conduit and fittings (indoor or outdoor), and should not be SO cord. You can use only some of the conductors in a cable. So you could use 3 pin plugs with 4 conductor cable. But it really sounds like you might want to bring someone else into this project. Most Home Depot have a licensed electrician on staff that you can ask specific questions, and they will show you what to use, free of charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by travis
There are safety reasons why you shouldn't use black and white for 240v. These are conventions laid out by the NEC for the safety of you and those that come after you. If a guy (Next homeowner, landlord, quasi-electrician, etc) opens up your junction box and doesn't bother to test the lines, he'll see a 120v circuit, single phase. He'll probably wire it up as such and burn the house down. 240v needs 2 x 120v lines at 180 degree phase. The white is for the common/neutral and only used for a 120v line. Making it hot will create an unsafe condition. It will void any home insurance you or your landlord have, if anybody finds out.
Like Rambozo said, goto home depot and talk to an electrician there for free. They'll set you straight, hopefully.
i went and dug out my wire its black red and white i know white is n other two is power side and it will be in conduit from panel down a foot or so to my box with a 4 prong female outlet
where i work we have a elect on staff iam always asking him stuff i have wired a 220 hot tub and replaced my main panel all by myself and the house has not burned so far
OK ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by travis
Is the 14-50 plug you have molded on or can you take it apart? Since you only need three pins, you might just want to switch everything over to 6-50. It would make things pretty simple. If you do that just don't use the white wire in your cable. If you want to keep the 14-50 then you will need to install a 14-50 outlet with all four wires, not just three. On the other end of your cord, how are you planning on hooking that to the welder? If you're going with a 6-50 receptacle then as you said, just don't use the white wire at all, and insulate it.
male end is molded on would like to keep it
Well, then it depends on what you have planned for the future or the cable specifically. If it's just an extension for the welder then you won't need the 120v and I'd say lop off the male connector. Build everything with 6-50 and 3 conductor.Quote:
Originally Posted by travis
In the case you will be hardwiring the cable to a welding table/cart and don't need to disconnect it, the dual voltage circuit makes more sense. In that case get some 4 conductor cable to run a permanent 14-50 box from your panel.
Since you have the wire and that's the expensive part, I would go the other way and just do everything in 14-50. It gives you the most options, and you keep the molded on plug. You can just put a 14-50 on your welder. I actually use 14-50 for all my welders, even the ones that don't need a neutral.
so just wire the plug on welder with a 14-50 and dont use netural leave it empty ?
Yes. To make it more obvious, I usually don't even install the neutral blade in the plug. This also lets it fit in a few different variations of NEMA 14 receptacles.Quote:
Originally Posted by travis
That's what I'd do as well if I were in your shoes. But I'm in my shoes at least for today. And up here the cheapest Nema 14-50 plug is 50 CAD before tax at the home deep. I think I mentioned it (my outrage) in another electical thread. The matching receptacle is 10 CAD what gives!? :mad:
Anyways, I found it unreasonable because I can get 6-3 Romex for a buck a foot. If prices weren't that insane, I'd do everything 14-50 too.
Question: Is this going to be an extension cord or will it be hardwired to the welder?
looked at 6/3 with ground lat night 4$ a foot i need 3 ft no more one female outlet and box cover as for end of cord iam really liking the rv plugs with handles i think it would be nice they about 20-25$ each