Rotenbach Super 200p

Attachment 9079Attachment 9080Attachment 9081Hello all, new to this forum.
I have a Rotenbach brand Super 200p and have been very happy with it until now.
I was going to do some MMA welding and discovered that i had no arc!
I double checked all cables, ground but they were good.
Then i tried plasma and TIG ,both AC and DC, same result, no spark at all.
The display reads "000" no matter how i turn the "amp knob".
The "over current light" does Not come on
I hear relays click as i switch from MMA to TIG, sounds normal
I have measured all power transistors and diodes and i cannot find any shorted component.
On the "top left" circuit board i measure 320 volt DC in from the rectifiers below but there is 0 volt out from this board.
I beleive the "front board" (the one with the potentionmeters) send controll voltages to the "top left" board to regulate current and so on but i cannot find any regulated voltage when i turn the "amp knob" and measure with a multimeter
There are 2 green LED's on the "top left" power board, they are lit up, (i think they indicate the 320 volt DC)
There are 3 red LED's on this board (and an small adjacent board thats soldered to this top board) none of these LED's are lit up.
there is a board "in the center at the bottom of the machine" this board gets 4 volatages from the transformer also down at the bottom.
the transformer puts out 4 20 volts in 8 cables that feed this board, there are 3 15volt voltage stabilisers on this board, they all have 15 volt out, but there are 4 connectors leaving this board, 2 wires each (red and black) leeding up to the different power transistor boards, there is only 4.5 volts at these connectors.
I am a trained electronics repairman (or used to be, i dont work with it anymore) so i should be able to repair this if i only had a schematic or got some tips on what to check next.
I will ofcourse pay for a schematic if anyone has it.
So anyone who had this problem or Everlast support, please post some info about it
Regards /Janne Strom

Welcome to the forums!

Another member, Jakeru, had a similar problem and describes it in detail here. It involves replacing diodes, so with your electrical background this may be right up your street.

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...ighlight=super

Good luck with it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woody068

I have measured all power transistors and diodes and i cannot find any shorted component.

---

Hi Janne - if you didn't find any shorts in your diodes, then for better or worse, you have a different problem than what happened with my machine (a 2007 Everlast Super200P.) Also comparing pictures of my machine to your Rotenbach, it appears there are some substantial differences. For example, your "upper left" circuit board for is larger than mine (with a lot more going on with it - See attached picture for a top view of my machine, FYI.)
Attachment 9082

Question: in TIG or plasma mode, when you trigger the arc, is the gas solenoid working?

FWIW, there is also a yahoo group "Chinese_TIG_welders" for these welding machines, although last I looked I didn't notice any schematics or detailed circuit-level info:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chinese_TIG_Welders/

I know you already found WeldingWeb, which does have a few others who might be helpful. (And as you may have noticed, probably many more others making their best effort to be unhelpful ;) )

Please keep us posted if you make any progress getting your machine straightened out, and let me know if there is something else I can do on my end to assist. Best of luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woody068

I have measured all power transistors and diodes and i cannot find any shorted component.

---

Missed that detail- sorry for stirring things up.

Thanks for your input Jakeru and DaveO, all input appreciated.
Ill check that "Chineese welder forum"

I think i have a controller problem, will try to find the time to troubleshoot it soon, will ofcource post my progress,if any , here.
I have looked at the river-weld.com and found replacement pcb's but theyseem to be a bit different than mine, i think they would fit your machine Jakeru.
Looks like a separate controller pcb and a smaller Power pcb like the one you have.
Regard /Janne Strom

The Green leds would only help with the diagnostic procedure from probably the Cherry (sp) factory.

Jake I think had some bad MOSFETs and upgraded them when he changed them if I recall. Not a bad idea if this turned out to be the case.. Also, shorted is only one bad state, OPEN is bad too (no power).

I would signup for the Yahoo Chinese welding forum (Henry runs it, we helped over there as well everlast2009), but look for a schematic close to yours. I will see what I have from the OLD OLD days when we sold a similar unit, but we move way past those boards years ago.

If you find a close schematic you can take to a local repair person too.

I have some info I can send you if you will email me. Can you find a company name stamped on the circuits somewhere?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

I have some info I can send you if you will email me. Can you find a company name stamped on the circuits somewhere?

---

Thank you very much.
i have sent you an email
Regards /Janne Strom

Does anyone else think its kind of nice that everlast is willing to provide tech support for another company's welder? I don't think I've ever seen that before.

I tried sending some information several times, but it won't go to his address...I guess the files are too large, but they've been emailed before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by agent4573

Does anyone else think its kind of nice that everlast is willing to provide tech support for another company's welder? I don't think I've ever seen that before.

---

We have always done that and still do.

Oleg had me start doing it years ago. When a lot of people called and assume we all bought from the same place. Back then, we knew most of the boards quite well.

On the Yahoo Chinese welder forum, we are everlast2009, so we started there in 2009.

You really need to come here for support on "our" welders as they are not the ones others out there are selling. But we will always help when/if we can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

I tried sending some information several times, but it won't go to his address...I guess the files are too large, but they've been emailed before.

---

Hello
Yes i agree with "agent xxxx" really nice of you to try to help me, its not even an Everlast welder, but i can tell you my Next welder Will Be an Everlast.
Im really sorry it didnt arrive here :(
i know you are doing way more than you have to do, but could you upload to a fileshare site?
I just created an account there, it allows file sizes of 300MB
Ill email you the account name and password.
Best Regards /Janne Strom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

I tried sending some information several times, but it won't go to his address...I guess the files are too large, but they've been emailed before.

---

Hello Mike
really sorry about the trouble you had with sending the large file.
I really appreciate it.
If you find the time, i have created an account at www.sendspace.com, its a site for uploading large files for free.
my account is: woody068
i have emailed the password to you (i think, if your email adress is: tech@everlastwelders.com)
I know i cant ask more, you have already done much more than you need ,but if you find the time i would really apprecicate the files.
Let me know if i can help you in any way, i work as a systems engineer for a computer consultant company, mainly with messaging and virtualizing servers.
Best regards /Janne Ström

Mark offered the files.

I mentioned the Yahoo groups.

If Mark wants to send them to me I can pop them up on a server for you to http/ftp them. We do not need a site to host them as we have our own sites (you are posting here on one).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by everlastsupport

Mark offered the files.

I mentioned the Yahoo groups.

If Mark wants to send them to me I can pop them up on a server for you to http/ftp them. We do not need a site to host them as we have our own sites (you are posting here on one).

---

Ok Mike
Sorry for the mixup of the two of you.
Mark just emailed and said he was going to try eailing you the files .
please let me know if its possible to download them somewhere.
Regards /Janne Ström

I have just downloaded a complete schematic for the super200wse and super 200acdc.(TIG ,MMA and Plasma machine)
I have a chineese machine, similar to these ones, the schematic is covering my machine to 98%
Huge thank you to Mark and Mike at Everlast support for going thru the trouble sharing this.
I will get started with the troubleshooting and i will post my progress ,if any, here.
Again, Awesome of Everlast to do this when its not even their machines.
My next welder is gonne be an Everlast
Regards /Janne Ström

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woody068

I have just downloaded a complete schematic for the super200wse and super 200acdc.(TIG ,MMA and Plasma machine)
I have a chineese machine, similar to these ones, the schematic is covering my machine to 98%
Huge thank you to Mark and Mike at Everlast support for going thru the trouble sharing this.
I will get started with the troubleshooting and i will post my progress ,if any, here.
Again, Awesome of Everlast to do this when its not even their machines.
My next welder is gonne be an Everlast
Regards /Janne Ström

---

You wont be disappointed with an Everlast. I am interested to see what you find with the current one.

Janne,

Due to the size of the files (as you noted, BIG) I removed them from the server, but if you need them again let us know.

Mark and Janne, thanks for sharing the Mosfet machine schematics! These are very useful for helping to understanding these machines better! (And finally, I now know what some of those Trimpots in my Super200P are for. ;) )

Janne, I studied the schematics a little, and I have a suggestion for troubleshooting your problem. Referring to the picture below of the front panel control board, the J1-2 pin is supposed to have a positive voltage (in relation to its neighboring ground pin, J1-1) whenever welding current is requested. In stick mode, this should be a on all the time, and a constant voltage, less than 12 volts. This voltage should scale linearly with the requested welding current (e.g., increasing the peak current knob should cause a corresponding increase in voltage at J1.)
Attachment 9163

Maybe you could verify whether there is an appropriate voltage there in yours? Just look for any signal that is significantly larger than 0V. If there is no voltage getting to J1-2, I think that we should be able to trace the problem backwards using the helpful schematic of this board. (You do have this board with the nine knobs, correct?)

PS - I have a feeling that since your digital display is always reading "0", that you won't be seeing any voltage at J1, but it's just a hunch.

Well, I guess this is what happens when you ask someone to keep them confidential :(. We'll share these old ones on case by case basis...but not to give them to every upstart chinese importer out there. Janne, please do not share them.

Janne, please do not share them, you are not our customer (but we hope one day) and we went out of our way to help you out. Mark offered as a favor, I got them to you as you could not receive them due to size. They are for your eyes only.

Mark, good news, Jake's cool as you know. I actually was going to PM him and send them to him at some point. He and I have fixed his old 200P unit over the phone in the past.

But we do not want the upstarts to keep pumping stuff and trying to use our older stuff to help them. Our new stuff is awesome compared to the old product. We want to keep going that way.

Really sorry, didnt realize that it was confidential.
I will not share them from now on.
Jakeru helped me with some troubleshooting and i thought i would help hom back, sorry.

Hi Woody,

I was wondering if you made any progress with your broken Super-200p. From reading your posts I seem to have almost the same problem except I believe I may have made mine worse by not putting the unit back together correctly. Do you have any pictures to hand to help me put all the connectors back into the correct sockets please.
It is mainly the wires from the fron control board and the one mounting behind it.

Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazampher

Hi Woody,

I was wondering if you made any progress with your broken Super-200p. From reading your posts I seem to have almost the same problem except I believe I may have made mine worse by not putting the unit back together correctly. Do you have any pictures to hand to help me put all the connectors back into the correct sockets please.
It is mainly the wires from the fron control board and the one mounting behind it.

Thanks

---

Be aware that the machine in this thread is not an Everlast and not the same build.

Mine too is not an everlast machine, it has LTS on the side which as far as I can work out is a UK importer of these machines. I have not had much luck with them as I was not the original buyer and it was purchased back in 2009. From the pictures mine appears to have the same electronics inside but I cannot work out exactly what connections go where.

I think with a bit of time and effort using my experiance in electronics I could reverse engineer the electronics and create some schematics for each of the boards used in the unit. I already have done the main power control PCB located at the bottom, the others will take some more time as they are a bit more complicated.

If anyone can help with the internal wiring I would be very greatful.

Cheers.

How can I get some schematics for the front pot board of the super200p ?

I see some are available, my unit is a bit different in the layout of the ICs.

They are horizontal in layout not vertical like the one picture here..
There are 2 LM324's.

So if some one has pdf's of these boards of the different models, I sure could use it.

Thanks , I'm new to any foruming so please bare with me.
I hope I'm doing this right..

Is there a download service site, That needs a user and password , I could get ?

mmiamijim@gmail.com
thanks

Unless you know the actual manufacturer of your unit, it's kind of useless to send out schematics. We have no way of knowing what boards you have, since probably over 200 manufacturers make a model similar to this...and with that there are as many variations.

The mfg is simarc or simadre. Considered a 4in1 has plasma cutting to.
Thanks

That's not the manufacturer. Someone made it for them...which could be several different ones.

Old post but I appear to be experiencing similar problems to Janne here... I took out the bottom PCB board to test some suspect diodes but they all checked out ok out of circuit. Part number on this board on my LTS UK super 200P is: HB19195, has 6 large brown caps on there.

I noticed that one on of the power connectors going up to the mid back left mosfet board, there is a cable which appears to be out of place... it looks as though it should have a female spade connector present as there is some heatshrink tubing and the other row of mosfets has this connection made in the location where the heatshrink tubing is...

Maybe this is a root cause of my problems!

I'd appreciate any schematics that might be available for the machine.

Maybe i'll get a HF spark someday :).