YAWC (yet another welding cart)

So, here's the first project and pretty much the first time using a TIG welder. -Yet another welding cart. It's all aluminum with 1" square legs and lower struts with 3/8" plate holding the tank and wheels. The top & bottom panels are just 1/8" plate. Also plan to make some storage boxes for the front and possibly sides. There's picture of one positioned in the front, roughly where it will be mounted. The box is stitched together out of drops; figured it would be good practice. Had some struggles with inside corner welds on the bigger material but eventually saw what was going on and worked through it. I need to improve on those corner welds. They're a little tricky. Probably would have been helpful to have a helium mix. I made sure everything had deep penetration. It took a few days working a couple hours after work every day. I'll put a few more finishing touches on it as time goes. It was good practice and the cart came out nice & strong, rolls smooth. It's only for the garage and driveway which are both good surfaces.

Oh, that's my dog, Sash. She's great. Wish I could find a welding helmet for her so she can hang w/me in the garage while I'm messing around.

EDIT: BTW: The front legs are indeed 6 degrees off vertical to give it a little style... -Not an optical illusion or newby warpage error...

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Oh, that's my dog, Sash. She's great. Wish I could find a welding helmet for her so she can hang w/me in the garage while I'm messing around..

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You could always get some of that welding safety curtain material and make some little goggles for her. :O :cool:

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/im...q8bteGSIsXknKg

She'd probably wear glasses no problem. She loves her raincoat -won't go out in the rain w/o it. I really hate putting her on the front porch while I'm in the shop welding. Noise doesn't bother her from the mill or lathe -sleeps right through it.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

You could always get some of that welding safety curtain material and make some little goggles for her. :O :cool:

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lol these are cooler Attachment 7657

Cart looks good. Plenty of filler, might bump the freq up and heat up just a little (gussets). I see the welds getting better as you use the equipment. Have you done aluminum TIG before?

You plan on add hooks for the leads or drape the hoses over the top of the unit. We have hooks but only use on the lower units (multi unit cart, drape the top). Maybe tubes for filler later?

Nice idea on aluminum for a light weight cart. Did you have it around or buy it. What did it set you back, time and cash?

Throw a welding jacket over it for a dust cover for now and you are good to go. Thanks for sharing the project.

Our dogs are too old to hang, but eye protection might work, not sure if she will look when you weld after the first time, but TIG is bright. Also, the dark lens and she might be knocking things over. Maybe a sunglasses thought a #4 with good UV/IR rating.

Hi Mike...

Thanks for the tip on increasing frequency. I'll try that. Id like to finish the tight corners in the gussets but since corners were giving me problems, I left them until I practice more.

I've never TIG'd before, at all. This is the first time, just bought a book and watched videos. Never MIG'd either. I bought the PP 205 and should have got the 250 but the few hundred bucks more put me out of the price ballpark -and I didn't know if I'd be able to learn TIG or not so I went with the less expensive unit. I'm thinking of getting an Everlast MIG unit. What's a good one? Would MIG be a better solution to handle corners with larger pieces? I have a totally unrelated day-job but, have a full machine shop (12x36 lathe, small industrial mill, shaper, surface grinder, bandsaws and OA torch -mainly for cutting and heat treating) occupying a 2.5 car garage. Been doing machine-shop work as a hobby most of my 52 years. I do some repair work for some local places and make custom boat parts for a friend whose a retired chief engineer (merchant marines). It just pays for the metal addiction. I do all manual machines (with DRO), mostly one-off kinda stuff. Everybody kept asking if I could do AL welding so I had to learn TIG. Won't do any real work till I get better. Once I got the torch problem straightened out, I spent 2-3 days practicing and cutting open the joints to check the bond so the cart probably won't fall apart.

Yes, I'll put some hooks after making the removable tool boxes that will flank the sides and front. I left several inches of the legs to stand above the top shelf and they serve as convenient posts to wrap the cables and serve as tie-downs etc. Also, I'll make a push handle that will extend in the front to guard the cable connectors.

Cost... I have a friend that works at a metal distributor. I can get AL and SS drops for $3/pound and mild steel for $1.5. Cost for that cart... Probably 90 bucks in AL and about 45 for the wheels. Time wise... I'd guess 10-12 hours but it was spread out over 3-4 days. Could probably do it faster now that I don't dip the tip as much as I used to:mad:. Now that the welding equipment is off the ground, next project is a rod oven to keep the 7018 dry. The inside liner will be SS (so I need to learn how to stick that together) and the outside will be AL will make a little heating element and circuit to keep the inside temp 20-30 degrees warmer than outside.

Sash is glad I'm done with the cart -but she still wants an official welding helmet -autodarkening :D. Spoiled dog! LOL...

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

Cart looks good. Plenty of filler, might bump the freq up and heat up just a little (gussets). I see the welds getting better as you use the equipment. Have you done aluminum TIG before?

You plan on add hooks for the leads or drape the hoses over the top of the unit. We have hooks but only use on the lower units (multi unit cart, drape the top). Maybe tubes for filler later?

Nice idea on aluminum for a light weight cart. Did you have it around or buy it. What did it set you back, time and cash?

Throw a welding jacket over it for a dust cover for now and you are good to go. Thanks for sharing the project.

Our dogs are too old to hang, but eye protection might work, not sure if she will look when you weld after the first time, but TIG is bright. Also, the dark lens and she might be knocking things over. Maybe a sunglasses thought a #4 with good UV/IR rating.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Hi Mike...

Sash is glad I'm done with the cart -but she still wants an official welding helmet -autodarkening :D. Spoiled dog! LOL...

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Not bad for the first time out for sure. Aluminum can be tough for many. If you keep the 7018 in an air tight container you will be good. The $5 one on the internet and even Harbor Freight has them too.

Heck, look at the $32 helmet for Sash. Maybe cut it down below the lens. hahaha.. Rod would have you speed $50 on cool looking shades.

In the tight corners you can rnu the gas up a little (if needed) and longer stickout too.

Good price on the drops, the aluminum is about double the scrap price (about copper). That is cheap.

Mike,

So, what's a good model of MIG machine about the same class as my PowerPro205? I'm guessing MIG 205p... Also, there are different guns for MIG... you mind giving me a heads-up on the differences between them? I'll have a need to do similar jobs with fillets on 3/8 plate and am wondering if MIG gun is better and faster than TIG. I had to make 2 (and sometimes 3) passes to fill those joints. The first pass, I ended-up with some voids so, I drilled and filled them. Next passes went faster but I couldn't get it even for the life of me and after doing 1 tight corner, decided to tackle the other 3 when I get a better handle on things.

... Way too much rod to store in tubes. I usually have 20lbs of 6010 and 50 of 7018 around -and my wife complains when I keep it inside where it's air-conditioned.

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

Not bad for the first time out for sure. Aluminum can be tough for many. If you keep the 7018 in an air tight container you will be good. The $5 one on the internet and even Harbor Freight has them too.

Heck, look at the $32 helmet for Sash. Maybe cut it down below the lens. hahaha.. Rod would have you speed $50 on cool looking shades.

In the tight corners you can rnu the gas up a little (if needed) and longer stickout too.

Good price on the drops, the aluminum is about double the scrap price (about copper). That is cheap.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

...next project is a rod oven to keep the 7018 dry. The inside liner will be SS (so I need to learn how to stick that together) and the outside will be AL will make a little heating element and circuit to keep the inside temp 20-30 degrees warmer than outside.

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That's fine for cellulose flux rods, but not low hydrogen. Here is a chart for required temps.
http://www.rodovens.com/welding_arti...rage_chart.htm
Buying small boxes as needed and using an airtight case makes more sense for the hobyist.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

I'll have a need to do similar jobs with fillets on 3/8 plate and am wondering if MIG gun is better and faster than TIG.

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MIG is almost always faster than TIG. Not really better or worse, just different.

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I had to make 2 (and sometimes 3) passes to fill those joints. The first pass, I ended-up with some voids so, I drilled and filled them. Next passes went faster but I couldn't get it even for the life of me and after doing 1 tight corner, decided to tackle the other 3 when I get a better handle on things.

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You shouldn't have voids on a single pass. It sounds more like you just need more practice, not a different process. TIG is the most flexible process because you have the most control, of course that means you have more things to keep track of, too. You often need a little more tungsten stickout for inside corners, but you can do this because the argon gets trapped in the corner, too, so you have a little extra shielding in that position.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Mike,

So, what's a good model of MIG machine about the same class as my PowerPro205? I'm guessing MIG 205p... Also, there are different guns for MIG... you mind giving me a heads-up on the differences between them? I'll have a need to do similar jobs with fillets on 3/8 plate and am wondering if MIG gun is better and faster than TIG. I had to make 2 (and sometimes 3) passes to fill those joints. The first pass, I ended-up with some voids so, I drilled and filled them. Next passes went faster but I couldn't get it even for the life of me and after doing 1 tight corner, decided to tackle the other 3 when I get a better handle on things.

... Way too much rod to store in tubes. I usually have 20lbs of 6010 and 50 of 7018 around -and my wife complains when I keep it inside where it's air-conditioned.

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If you like stick welding, that's cheap as it gets on jobs and portable, PowerARC 200 (a Mark/performance favorite; and I agree).

MIG is faster than TIG like Rambozo said. I will put a * on my pick if you do a lot of MMA.

For our MIGs.

The *IMIG200 is a great small portable unit and likes generators of 5500 watts or better (and will stick all day long too). I like them for small to medium jobs and MIG too. I have used them with flux core and C25 on the MIG side. Impressive for the small unit and 30amps/220vac power for a small generator.

If you like stick go with the PA200, MIG and stick IMIG 200.

Above POST is the best buy for the dollar.

IMIG 205 next step up, but not as portable for me and on a small genset. IMIG205P better but you have to learn the pulse, takes a day or two. Deeper (thicker welds on a single pass).

Hard to call. PA200 is great unit for the price IM200 also great for the price. Give Mark or I a call and we can see what is best for the price.

Mike,

The IMIG200 caught my eye but under "recommended material" it notes IMIG 250P for Aluminum. What's up with that?

And yes, I do a fair amount of stick with a typical project running about 3-5lbs of 1/8 or 3/32 rod... A little more than just a 2 minute hot spot... It would be nice to put the Lincoln tombstone to the side as a backup because it's a behemoth. I want to put longer cables on it but the whole thing has to come apart and am not sure if it's worth the investment. Last time I had it apart (to replace the fan) there was a lot of corrosion in there -I bought it used.

I like the way my PP205 does stick. Very, smooth...

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

If you like stick welding, that's cheap as it gets on jobs and portable, PowerARC 200 (a Mark/performance favorite; and I agree).

MIG is faster than TIG like Rambozo said. I will put a * on my pick if you do a lot of MMA.

For our MIGs.

The *IMIG200 is a great small portable unit and likes generators of 5500 watts or better (and will stick all day long too). I like them for small to medium jobs and MIG too. I have used them with flux core and C25 on the MIG side. Impressive for the small unit and 30amps/220vac power for a small generator.

If you like stick go with the PA200, MIG and stick IMIG 200.

Above POST is the best buy for the dollar.

IMIG 205 next step up, but not as portable for me and on a small genset. IMIG205P better but you have to learn the pulse, takes a day or two. Deeper (thicker welds on a single pass).

Hard to call. PA200 is great unit for the price IM200 also great for the price. Give Mark or I a call and we can see what is best for the price.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Mike,

The IMIG200 caught my eye but under "recommended material" it notes IMIG 250P for Aluminum. What's up with that?

And yes, I do a fair amount of stick with a typical project running about 3-5lbs of 1/8 or 3/32 rod... A little more than just a 2 minute hot spot... It would be nice to put the Lincoln tombstone to the side as a backup because it's a behemoth. I want to put longer cables on it but the whole thing has to come apart and am not sure if it's worth the investment. Last time I had it apart (to replace the fan) there was a lot of corrosion in there -I bought it used.

I like the way my PP205 does stick. Very, smooth...

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I have both the IM200 and 205P, like the both equal if a little lean on the more power of the 205P. I have done aluminum with the IM200 with a spool gun and no problem. No spool gun for the 205P yet, but 200 work fine.

If budget allows 205P is nice, if size is a fator, 200 will not let you down either. Once I got the 205P the 200 is setup for aluminum now or flux, 205P does all the steel now.

All of our units, that stick weld, stick weld well. PA200 has a little edge on the 6010.

I made another box for the cart and this time, put some concentration into the piece. I had several good runs today but once in a while, the concentration slips and things get messy. Things usually go wrong when I'm adjusting the filler rod with the feed hand and it screws up the rhythm or better yet, accidentally touch the tip with the rod... In another post, someone suggested turning up the frequency to focus the arc. I'll give that a try as it would be handy for these outside corners.

So, I'm putting some brackets on the legs of the cart and struggled with a weld because the bracket material is less than 1/8" thick and the leg is 1" square. With stick welding, this is no problem but with TIG, it took a while to warm-up the leg while not melting the thin plate. How are situations like this normally handled, do you pre-heat the big parts first or just avoid such situations and use thicker plate material? Anyhow, this was time consuming (had 8 such welds to do) and was done in the vertical position. When I tried doing it in horizontally, the heat was melting the thinner piece.

OK, worked through it with a couple more brackets. Hit the 1" square with a few minutes of MAPP, positioned the piece and stuck it together in a few moments. Was worried the MAPP combustion would contaminate the work but that apparently wasn't the case...

welding stuff like in picture is why i have a aluminum mig spool gun

I recently purchased a I-Mig 200 and I was surprised how smoothly it welded. Even if the settings weren't perfect, it welded nicely.

For the 1" to 1/8" you will want to preheat the 1" or else you will run into a problem of melting the 1/8" before the 1".
Another tip for the boxes you are making is you can get a much cleaner/flatter weld if you cut the metal slightly shorter so the edges are not flush. You can see some pictures on what I am talking about in my thread:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...-Oil-Catch-Can

This is somewhat harder on 1/8" aluminum but it can be done if you take your time cutting the metal.

Nice looking job there! Was that done with the PowerPro or the I-Mig? I'm not familiar enough with the styles to identify what process was used.

Cutting the metal... I have a 6" bandsaw so cuts are limited. -Could always trim things down in the mill but that's painful. I'm half-tempted to adapt a cutting blade to the surface grinder so I could at least cut sheet up to about 20 inches. Most of the pieces of the box were drops that weren't perfectly square and I used the best ones out of the pile. It's all good though, nobody's grading me on this but myself and the whole purpose was a simple project to learn how to TIG. At the end of the day, I'll have a good welding cart and in time, I'll go over some of the ugly welds and pretty them up a bit.

Does anyone know of a circular blade that does a reasonable job of cutting aluminum?

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Originally Posted by scootarida1

I recently purchased a I-Mig 200 and I was surprised how smoothly it welded. Even if the settings weren't perfect, it welded nicely.

For the 1" to 1/8" you will want to preheat the 1" or else you will run into a problem of melting the 1/8" before the 1".
Another tip for the boxes you are making is you can get a much cleaner/flatter weld if you cut the metal slightly shorter so the edges are not flush. You can see some pictures on what I am talking about in my thread:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...-Oil-Catch-Can

This is somewhat harder on 1/8" aluminum but it can be done if you take your time cutting the metal.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Does anyone know of a circular blade that does a reasonable job of cutting aluminum?

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Virtually any woodworking tools can be employed on aluminum. A table saw is great for slicing up sheets, and even a Skillsaw does fine. A miter saw can cut small stock to length. As with wood, carbide blades will have a longer life. A coolant/lubricant will also help. WD-40 or ATF work well. The old timers love kerosene mixed with lard oil for aluminum. I've found nothing better than Tap Magic for aluminum.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_349243-29990...la&cagpspn=pla

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Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop

http://www.lowes.com/pd_349243-29990...la&cagpspn=pla

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I might have to try one of those myself, always wanted the rage saw but all the bad press kept me away.. It says 3900PRM, will have to check the speed on mine. I have a variac (18 amp at 110vac) I could try it wit that too.

I was once told put the blade on backwards for aluminum. Never tried it. Don'r recall who told me either.

We use WD-40 for all cutting and drilling. Sometime Blast when it is closer to grab. I know old school types liked ATF and acetone mix for a lube/rusted parts, not sure acetone and sparks (steels) are a good idea though.

I'll give that a try with rough cuts done with plasma (as the sheets are 4' x 4') and finish with a table saw. -Am not really fond of using the surface grinder for this purpose as, it's a 1940's Brown & Sharpe #2 that's been completely rebuilt. It holds ten thou across the entire table and want to keep it that way.

Over the years, I've found WD-40 to be suitable for most purposes and usually buy it by the gallon (Much Cheaper that way). In my area there's a discount store called "Ollies" that sells something called PRO-10 -basically identical to WD-40 and cost a $1.50 for 16oz aerosol cans. For milling aluminum, WD works fine for me. I rarely use coolant on the lathe or mill because my production is so low and, since all my work is one-off stuff, I need to see the piece which you cant really do with coolant running.

BTW: I once saw a chemical analysis of WD-40 published by a trade magazine that sent it to a lab... LOL, it's rougly (from memory) 40% kerosene, 40% light mineral oil and 20% surficants and silicone.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

Virtually any woodworking tools can be employed on aluminum. A table saw is great for slicing up sheets, and even a Skillsaw does fine. A miter saw can cut small stock to length. As with wood, carbide blades will have a longer life. A coolant/lubricant will also help. WD-40 or ATF work well. The old timers love kerosene mixed with lard oil for aluminum. I've found nothing better than Tap Magic for aluminum.

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Honestly Mike, I'd be a little worried about running carbide backward. Those little tips are silver soldered on and I can see one busting loose and coming at you at around 1200 f/s. I accidentally ran a 5 point carbide indexed surface mill backward once. Within a split second, two of the inserts snapped off. Thank heavens they went into a wall and not in my guts. First thing I did was pull up my shirt to look for an entry wound.

I'm not sure what RPM most wood table saws run. I know my chop saw is much faster at some even or odd multiple of 3600. That blade has a max of 3900 which indicates its setup for a standard 3600 RPM motor so, if the table saw runs at 7200 (which is darn fast) you'll need that variac for sure. Pretty sure I have a spare VFD laying around so I might need to do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

I might have to try one of those myself, always wanted the rage saw but all the bad press kept me away.. It says 3900PRM, will have to check the speed on mine. I have a variac (18 amp at 110vac) I could try it wit that too.

I was once told put the blade on backwards for aluminum. Never tried it. Don'r recall who told me either.

We use WD-40 for all cutting and drilling. Sometime Blast when it is closer to grab. I know old school types liked ATF and acetone mix for a lube/rusted parts, not sure acetone and sparks (steels) are a good idea though.

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Originally Posted by Ray C

I'm not sure what RPM most wood table saws run. I know my chop saw is much faster at some even or odd multiple of 3600. That blade has a max of 3900 which indicates its setup for a standard 3600 RPM motor so, if the table saw runs at 7200 (which is darn fast) you'll need that variac for sure. Pretty sure I have a spare VFD laying around so I might need to do the same thing.

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Most 10" tables saws run around 4000 - 5000 RPM which is fine for aluminum. That Rage blade Rod linked to needs to run slower because it can also cut steel. For aluminum you can just use a standard carbide blade made for wood. Blades with more teeth spread the cutting forces out and work best. I like the older Black & Decker Piranha blades with the curved carbide inserts. I don't think they make them that way anymore, but you might still find some around. Smaller saws run a little faster while bigger run slower to keep the same SFM. It helps to have a zero clearance insert on your table saw, for thin material. For smaller pieces you can also use a slitting saw in a mill, since you mentioned you had one.

As you figured out, never run a cutting tool backwards, or feed the stock backwards into the blade.

I used the powerpro 205 tig for the catch can project. Also for that material I used a foot shear to cut the metal. It cuts nice and straight. However can you use ur bandsaw in the vertical position? If you take your time cutting on a line it can come out fairly straight. Also you can use ur plasma cutter and have some sort of straight edge to drag along and this will create a pretty straight line. I use a Milwaukee dry cut saw for cutting aluminum and steel stock. I don't use it for sheet though.

And just for completeness, here's the latest pic of the welding cart with some front hooks and boxes mounted and a tie-down for the Green Hulk. I knew I'd find a purpose for that piece of coated cable that's been in the shop for the last 5 years...

Just as I feared, the cart "over-runneth" with stuff. Need to put some boxes on the back and a filler-rod rack under the top shelf... Probably 1-2 years from now, I'll be done with it:rolleyes: