Auto dimming mask question

Hello. First post here.

I just got a 250ex tig and a fabricator mask. It's pretty sweet getting to learn on the 250ex, but I have a problem (I'm probably just doing something wrong). I think it's the mask (because without the mask, the arc doesn't seem to get drastically brighter or dimmer when watching the reflection on the wall)

When welding some 24ga sheet metal @ 20-30 amps, the shade level on the mask instantly jumps from pretty shaded, to hardly shaded. When the shade level jumps down, it's not a blinding light, but the light is bright enough where it's hard to see my weld area anymore. I was welding yesterday night with my friend (who has some weld experience, but none with an auto dimming mask), and he had the same problem. I tried to make sure the sensors were right perpendicular to the arc, but I don't think that made a considerable difference.

sensitivity was set to 3 bars
shade level was 8
delay was fast

any ideas?

Thanks,
Jason

Make sure sensitivity is set as high as possible.

Is 3 bars the most sensitive or least sensitive? I think there's also an option for 'grind'. I will try to get some time in today.

If all else fails with adjusting your helmet to work with your the arc, you can adjust your arc to work with your helmet by adding in a little pulsing into the DC arc. It's a bit of a kludgey workaround, but I find just a little bit of pulsing makes all the difference with getting my helmet (a harbor freight unit) to reliably trigger when TIG welding DC.

My helmet's two sensitivity settings ("low" and "high") aren't sensitive enough to reliably trigger from a pulsation-free low amp DC arc. Eventually I'll buy a better one that is more sensitive, but for now that's my "workaround."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jakeru

If all else fails with adjusting your helmet to work with your the arc, you can adjust your arc to work with your helmet by adding in a little pulsing into the DC arc. I find just a little bit of pulsing makes all the difference with getting my helmet (a harbor freight unit) to reliably trigger when TIG welding DC.

My helmet's two sensitivity settings ("low" and "high") aren't sensitive enough to reliably trigger from a pulsation-free low amp DC arc. Eventually I'll buy a better one that is more sensitive, but for now that's my "workaround."

---

maybe I'll try adding some flashlight reflectors in front of the sensors.. that might work. Is there anything else that people try to make these masks work in the 30 amp range?

It's probably got more to do with how much tungsten you have sticking out and the angle of your torch more than anything. Being perpendicular to the weld is NOT what you want. You actually should be leaning in at a 45 degree angle in between the torch and the front part of the weld...which is the correct way to use a helmet like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

It's probably got more to do with how much tungsten you have sticking out and the angle of your torch more than anything. Being perpendicular to the weld is NOT what you want. You actually should be leaning in at a 45 degree angle in between the torch and the front part of the weld...which is the correct way to use a helmet like this.

---

I meant that my line of sight is perpendicular to the mask, like in the attached picture. I thought this was the best way to do it so that there wasn't any reflection due to the "critical angle" of the transparent shield in front of the sensors. I had about 1/4" of tungsten sticking out of my torch at all times, if not 3/8", and I was about 1/8 to 3/16" away from the workpiece. I'm obviously learning, so I don't know exactly what I need to do here, should I stick the tungsten out further? Do you think there's intermittent shade interruption because the light goes away? or it's just not enough light at 20-30 amps?

I also tried to mount the sensors upside down so they would be lower, relative to my eyes, but that didnt seem to help either.

Man that's a funny picture. Attachment 7647

The stick out and standoff height is actually too long. You should have about a credit card thickness under the tungsten between it and the metal. The stickout should be 1/4" or less. One thing is possible: that you were varying your arc length (with such a long one), tricking the helmet into thinking the arc was going out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zoama585

Man that's a funny picture. Attachment 7647

---

Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

Attachment 7649

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rambozo

Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

Attachment 7649

---

LMAO..... I am Cornholio! T P for my Bunghole! Wow, old school cartoons :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by performance

The stick out and standoff height is actually too long. You should have about a credit card thickness under the tungsten between it and the metal. The stickout should be 1/4" or less. One thing is possible: that you were varying your arc length (with such a long one), tricking the helmet into thinking the arc was going out.

---

I didn't try this yet, but I did try adding some pulse to the arc, and I think it helps the mask stay on. Still some funny stuff going on with some flicker, but I just don't think i have the pulse set properly or something. Need to get more experience with everything. I had no idea about the credit card thickness thing, I imagine that would really help me control the pool better but so far I've been paranoid about dipping my tungsten into the metal. I will have to give it a try tomorrow.

Thanks

I thought the picture was an alien looking thru a window using it's mind powers to lift the corner of a bed.... Anal probe time. LOL

Back on topic, jakeru what HF helmet do you have?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jasonz172

I think it's the mask (because without the mask, the arc doesn't seem to get drastically brighter or dimmer when watching the reflection on the wall)

---

Watch out for that. The reflection can get you. The worst flash burn I ever got was from helping do some aluminum fitting for another welder. I was just holding pieces so I would just look away or close my eyes, when he tacked things up. Not a good plan, several hours later I got hit with some of the worst pain I have ever felt and had to go to the hospital to get anesthetic for my eyes. Learned my lesson that night for sure.

Even if your helmet doesn't stay dark, it will still filter you from UV and IR so you might get dazzled, but not burned. Try going through the settings for your helmet to make sure you are not missing something, and turn the delay up so that even if you block the sensor for a second, it will stay dark long enough to recover. For most things sensitivity up full and delay up full will be your best bet for low amp TIG.

Attachment 7646
ET melt steel.

Welcome to the forum Jason!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jasonz172

I didn't try this yet, but I did try adding some pulse to the arc, and I think it helps the mask stay on. Still some funny stuff going on with some flicker, but I just don't think i have the pulse set properly or something. Need to get more experience with everything. I had no idea about the credit card thickness thing, I imagine that would really help me control the pool better but so far I've been paranoid about dipping my tungsten into the metal. I will have to give it a try tomorrow.

Thanks

---

Don't worry about dipping the tungsten, it will happen a lot while you are learning. Just keep plenty of sharp ones at the ready so you don't have to stop and grind all the time. Sharpen both ends if you can live without the color coding. Just remember to get the tungsten out of the puddle BEFORE you back off of the pedal/switch. (As usual, don't ask me how I know)Attachment 7658

I agree with Mark, check that the stick-out out less than 1/4", arc length short, helmet in tight (maybe turn your head to the side more to expose the sensors and see if there is a change). Also try different angles on the torch more towards vertical and see of that helps. You have nothing above that would be blocking the sensors on the lens right? Like working around a vertical piece.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShaneJackson

I thought the picture was an alien looking thru a window using it's mind powers to lift the corner of a bed.... Anal probe time. LOL

Back on topic, jakeru what HF helmet do you have?

---

It's a blue flame #678754 (with most of the blue flame stickers peeled off) I think I took the filter out of a newer red stripe helmet, and put them in the older blue flame shell. It's got the external shade control knob with the weld/grind settings.

I've also got an old school passive shade jackson helmet that's in really, really rough shape - that's what students/customers/friends who want to watch get to use right now.

I have both the red stripe and blue flame models and they work fine with low amp TIG. I would guess like most things HF there is a lot of unit to unit variation. I don't have much time on the blue one as it's here for non-blind people, because I have a major mag lens in the red one. I did find it typical HF that at least the blue one contradicts itself between the box that says OK for arc, MIG and TIG, and the instructions that say may not work for TIG. One thing I have noticed is that sunlight can mess things up, darkening when not desired and lightening at improper times, too. So That might be part of your issue.

BTW, I did have problems getting flashed on low frequency with the blue flame helmet. I set the sensitivity high switch on the inside helmet and it worked for me.

I had the same problem with the first red flame one from HF, Returned it and tested the other one in the parking lot on some sunshine reflection on a car mirror. It works fine and i have had no issues. Used it welding pop cans at 20 amps on 185 did great. Better yet it was the $79.95 one with a coupon on sale for $49.95 and free 2 year replacement for $9.99.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cbmkr

... and free 2 year replacement for $9.99.

---

I never get replacement warranties but in this case it might be worth considering. How fragile are auto darkening helmets in general, regardless of manufacturer?

They are more fragile than the standard just because the electronics are added, But with normal use they are fine. My thought on the HF replacement warranty is that you can also upgrade to a newer or better model if one comes out . If i break the headgear or crack the helmet itself, or if the auto system just quits. Its to the store for return.

My old Jackson brand large lens hood just sits now.

You can do soda cans on 20 amps without blasting holes.... I tried it with my 200DX and blast holes no mater what. I tried .040 tungsten and played with ac balance... even tried pulse... holes is all I get.

I have been practicing on 1/8 al angle and doing ok beads.

Too small a tungsten won't let you move the heat to the tungsten. If you do 20 amps @ about 65% balance, you should be ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShaneJackson

You can do soda cans on 20 amps without blasting holes.... I tried it with my 200DX and blast holes no mater what. I tried .040 tungsten and played with ac balance... even tried pulse... holes is all I get.

I have been practicing on 1/8 al angle and doing ok beads.

---

I'll bet there is a thin, clear coating of lacquer over the bottom of that can that is causing you problems. If you remove it, it will help. Try scrubbing it thoroughly with a stainless steel wire brush, or scotchbrite pad to remove the lacquer and get down to bare aluminum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cbmkr

Used it welding pop cans at 20 amps on 185 did great.

---

I expect a HF autodark would work fine on 20 amps AC; at least my blue flame did (and before it I also used a different blue flame without the grind mode, that was the same in its arc sensitivity behavior.)

DC welding (without pulsing) is a different story though (on both of the HF autodarks I've used.) I expect will initially darken when you strike the non-pulse DC arc, but then will lighten on you mid-arc, after a couple or so seconds.

Gave it another go last night with 1/16 tungsten and 65% balance 20 amps.... better but still blowing holes like crazy. Oh and sanded and cleaned the bottom real good.

The arc is all over the place.... is the AC arc suppose to be anything like a DC arc??? On DC I get a very good tight arc, on AC is starts out all over the place (even with a sharp tungsten and 125 freq) until I get a good shiny puddle (this is on the 1/8 metal). Then it focuses better but the puddle always seems to grow larger and larger.... I guess it is while the piece heats up. I am using 2t torch and down slop ... I guess I need to play with the pedal.

With the 200Dx and the 185 like i have we are at a disadvantage trying to weld the cans at the higher amps , it would be easier at 10 amps not 20 but can be done.
The arc will not be as smooth as DC . In AC on cans i used 3/32 tungsten and 3/32 filler, It worked and seemed to pull the heat to the filler and not the can.
I had good success on cans at 20 amps w the 185, Turn the Freq up to around 200-225, You should get a high buzzing sound and the arc will be more centralized to the end of the tungsten.
I did post my try at welding cans on the site here a while back.
One thing about cans i have noticed and been told by mark, the sugar deposit in the can can cause issues also, But the main thing i found was all cans are not the same thickness. Beer cans are thicker than coke cans, 16oz , 32oz cans are a lot thicker than coke cans almost 3 times as thick. Find some thicker ones and give them a try.

After the can practice and success , i had some .030 aluminum sheet to attach some .025 aluminum hinges too. i think i settled on about 40 amps for that project and it worked just fine.

I do not do this for a living anymore as i am retired and just have a lot of things to repair for myself and friends and repair work around the farm here, some of my suggestions might not seem on track with what others say but i am still learning with this inverter type machine on aluminum over the older machines i learned on.

65% balance? WHY? The arc WILL be all over the place.

If i am correct the balance should be set about 30% or 9:00 O'clock or a little less on the dial. Mark is right when building my aluminum cart the higher the balance the more the arc jumped around and the more cleaning or frosting you got.