Lens # choice?

With my 200DX on the way, I have to figure out how to get going, the welder tapped me out, I don't have another $100-$150 for a helmet at the moment. That said, I do have two helmets sitting here, a Hobart #10 auto darkening (fixed) and a large window traditional style with I believe a #10 or #11 (I have to look, it's my 'bystander' helmet for MIG work.

Anyone have a 'safe' chart? I know there's personal preference, some like a 9 for TIG to N-amps, other say this, or that, etc. I'll put extra lighting if a darker shade than I can see easily is recommended, no problem adjusting to the situation.

What I'm trying to figure out is what shade will work for arc at what power, what shade will work for what TIG, etc. If darker than #10, can I throw a pair of lighter goggles on under the auto helmet and 'stack' them? Hopefully only a month or two and I'll order up an Everlast helmet, but I have to figure out how to get a tank and consumables or the helmet is just going to collect dust.

I have some damage and side effects from welding in the Navy with a cracked (couldn't tell) lens, not looking to add to it.

Here's a link to Miller's chart:
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...Helmet-For-You

...but I don't know about "stacking" goggles inside a helmet. It's disturbing to hear about a cracked lens causing eye damage, too- if I can add to the scope of your post, how do you check for a cracked lens, or does a lens have a "lifetime" that you automatically replace it?

Turns out it was dropped and placed back... found out it was cracked after a full day of welding, I was bitching about the flash burn and someone else had run into it before, so he removed the lens and it fell apart in pieces. The cover lenses were a bit dirty/scratched, so we never noticed the fine lines.

Interesting, that chart is different than a couple others (internet is a wonderful place... it's why I asked for a recommendation, to find a reliable chart)

According to that, the #10 Hobart I have that's rated for arc/MIG/Flux core, is almost too light for the max amps on my little 125, assuming I saw the full 125 out of it.

Other references I saw recommended no less than a 13/14 for any Aluminum TIG, but this chart makes no differentiation.

EDIT: Forgot to add, the Navy specifies checking the lens prior to welding... common practice was to check it during normal PMS routines, reality was it was checked far less often.

I bought this helmet from northern tool love like it better than my higher priced helmet cant beat the price hi a good review only 65 buck same here my eyes are messed up also , http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...0403_200480403 same helmet that was shown on welding tips and tricks

Flash burn hurts like heck got it a couple of month ago from a bad helmet. feels like sand in your eyes and any light hurts couldn't go out side for about a week just hid in my darn room

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Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop

Flash burn hurts like heck got it a couple of month ago from a bad helmet. feels like sand in your eyes and any light hurts couldn't go out side for about a week just hid in my darn room

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Been there, done that, too damn many times. What I want to know, what fuggin moron decided light green was a good color for a jacket? Worst burn I got since the Navy was welding up a brush guard for a friend's truck. Couldn't figure it out... then I realized it all of a sudden, it was reflecting up when I was in any position where my hood wasn't touching the jacket hard.

lol i wear black or white when welding i use a rear helmet cover since weld a lot out side it keeps the light out from coming in back of helmet and glare

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Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop

I bought this helmet from northern tool love like it better than my higher priced helmet cant beat the price hi a good review only 65 buck same here my eyes are messed up also , http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...0403_200480403 same helmet that was shown on welding tips and tricks

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I have this helmet (the flames peel off) and it has been pretty solid for stick/TIG. At first I had an issue with the autodark dropping out on TIG, but then I realized that there was a sensitivity setting that fixed the problem.

Cheers
Mike

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Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop

lol i wear black or white when welding i use a rear helmet cover since weld a lot out side it keeps the light out from coming in back of helmet and glare

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Thinking about doing the same. I've already started to put together a piece of leather that will drape down the bottom of the helmet as a chin to block off light from reaching my neck and under the helmet. That should help keep me cooler in the summer too as I won't have to wear tight fitting clothing next to my neck.

i like the back cover on helmet since i sun burn easy

Rod, when you say you wear black or white, do you mean shirt colors? I can't stand welding with a light colored shirt on, as the reflection is killer. Most of the time I try to wear a dark jacket or shirt, white shirts alone are blinding!

yes shirts tight collar long sleeve cotton shirts like t shirts since cotton is good when welding in summer and there cheap and dont get neck burn in front. have like 3 set of leathers but hate there heavy and to hot to wear these are cool i use them real cheap keep hot stuff from going down the front of your shirt http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CJMBEPMCMAI

I weld with a 9 lens at home. When I worked in structural steel I used a 10, those 440 machines put out more light. Tig welding can get bright so you will want a 12 or 13 lens.

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Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265

I weld with a 9 lens at home. When I worked in structural steel I used a 10, those 440 machines put out more light. Tig welding can get bright so you will want a 12 or 13 lens.

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What process with a 9 at home?

I ordered 11, 12, 13 shades for my spare helmet (flip front flip up 4 1/2 x 5 1/4) that will have to do for now for anything the #10 won't work for.

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Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop

these are cool i use them real cheap keep hot stuff from going down the front of your shirt http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CJMBEPMCMAI

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Gee, that's cheap. Wish I saw that link before I jury rigged my own. Would have saved me some time! :D

Don't really want to call it a bib ... Doesn't sound manly enough. How about a welder's beard?!? It definitely helps keep me cooler and I don't have to worry about burning my neck with UV or getting hot stuff down my shirt.

TIG can be all over. From a 9 with low amperage on very thin steel, to 13 or more for high power on polished aluminum. A lot depends on the person, too. Whatever you need to see the puddle is what it takes. The distance can change things a little, too. Age has forced me to use a cheater lens now, to be as close as I like to.
That is another real advantage to an auto dark, most you can dial in just what shade you want.
But they all seem to have the same look to the shade. I really liked some of the gold foil shade lenses and the color of an aluminum puddle through them. I have not seen an auto dark that looks like that. If anyone knows of one, I would love to hear about it.

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Originally Posted by posixPilot

I have this helmet (the flames peel off) and it has been pretty solid for stick/TIG. At first I had an issue with the autodark dropping out on TIG, but then I realized that there was a sensitivity setting that fixed the problem.

Cheers
Mike

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I was considering the same helmet... When you say that the autodark "drops out", do you mean that lens was no longer shaded?

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Originally Posted by hokiefd

I was considering the same helmet... When you say that the autodark "drops out", do you mean that lens was no longer shaded?

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Correct, the desired shade level of 10 (or whatever you have set) suddenly drops to the default shade level 4 just as if I stopped welding. There is a sensitivity setting, and somehow I rationalized that I ought to set it to low. This worked fine for stick, but TIG would occasionally drop out. Apparently the setting was designed for use when multiple weldors had arcs going in the same room. Setting sensitivity to high resolved the problem.

Cheers
Mike

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Originally Posted by posixPilot

Correct, the desired shade level of 10 (or whatever you have set) suddenly drops to the default shade level 4 just as if I stopped welding. There is a sensitivity setting, and somehow I rationalized that I ought to set it to low. This worked fine for stick, but TIG would occasionally drop out. Apparently the setting was designed for use when multiple weldors had arcs going in the same room. Setting sensitivity to high resolved the problem.

Cheers
Mike

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Documentation for a lot of helmets is basically non-existent or worse, makes you think the opposite of what is intended. Took me a few reads of the manual and then googling to find that out too.

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Originally Posted by posixPilot

Correct, the desired shade level of 10 (or whatever you have set) suddenly drops to the default shade level 4 just as if I stopped welding. There is a sensitivity setting, and somehow I rationalized that I ought to set it to low. This worked fine for stick, but TIG would occasionally drop out. Apparently the setting was designed for use when multiple weldors had arcs going in the same room. Setting sensitivity to high resolved the problem.

Cheers
Mike

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Good to know. Thanks Mike.

You can tell by how your eye's feel ... I only have one eye and i have depended on this for decades ... if it hurts your eyes go to a stronger shade ... an 11 is great up to 130 amps a 12 ... 150 or so ... it depended on the type of welding ... SMAW - GTAW what ever ... Rule of thumb ... if it hurts ... it aint good.

The basic rule has always been to use the darkest shade that will still let you see what you are doing. Virtually any good filter will block all the UV and IR that does the most damage. Everyone is a little different as to the best filter level for each job. Also this does change with age somewhat. The Navy did some tests many years ago that showed only 18 year old kids have the best night vision because their pupils can dilate the most. They used this research to design binoculars for night watch on ships that would gather the most light for that size pupil.

Does anyone know why some of the auto-darkening welding shades' literature say specifically that they're not suitable for TIG or plasma cutting? I have a cheap (HF) auto-darkening helmet that I've had for probably 10 years and it's worked fine for stick and MIG. It's never dropped out, always worked great. So why would TIG welding be any different?

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Originally Posted by Slartybartfa

Does anyone know why some of the auto-darkening welding shades' literature say specifically that they're not suitable for TIG or plasma cutting? I have a cheap (HF) auto-darkening helmet that I've had for probably 10 years and it's worked fine for stick and MIG. It's never dropped out, always worked great. So why would TIG welding be any different?

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From everything I've read in the last week, most likely it's set to shade 10, which won't cover the whole range and they're trying to avoid someone TIG welding AL at 300 amps suing them for wicked flash burn...

It's adjustable from shade 9 to 13, so it should cover TIGging even on aluminum at the high end. However I just noticed a discrepancy between what they say on their website and what the manual says. The website says it's suitable for TIG and plasma as well as stick and MIG. But there are two cautions in the manual that say "not for TIG or plasma cutting." Don't know why that would be. However, I have another helmet with #13 shade that I can use in the meantime.

Odd... Only thing I can add is that I won't trust any of my safety concerns to HF... I buy lots of stuff from HF, but it is purchased with the intention of chucking it in the trash or scrap bin when it inevitably craps out. I wouldn't want something I bought, knowing it will crap out, protecting my eyes.

Now, before anyone starts thinking I'm digging on 'made in China' while on a forum about welders made there... there is a distinct difference between the folks here, who are thoroughly involved and will stand behind the product, and HF crap, whose motto generally appears to be 'if we put a price on it, someone will buy it eventually'

Re: HF stuff, same here. However, I looked at the reviews on the HF auto-darkening helmet and one reviewer says it can flash on you (go full bright) while TIGging or plasma cutting. The NorthernTool helmet specifically says theirs is suitable for Plasma and TIG of at least 10 Amps. So apparently there's a brightness threshold issue with auto-dark helmets.

Maybe it's time to replace my old HF welding helmet with a better one.

I bought the HF auto helmet after the boss here at work picked one up and had been welding (tig) with it for about 6 months. He kept on saying how it worked just as well as the Jackson that it replaced (when the jackson was dropped and broke). I've been using it for about a year now and it works great. I too had to fiddle with the sensitivity switch, but unless I am in a position that blocks the sensors it doesn't flash me at all any more.

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Originally Posted by Injected65

I bought the HF auto helmet after the boss here at work picked one up and had been welding (tig) with it for about 6 months. He kept on saying how it worked just as well as the Jackson that it replaced (when the jackson was dropped and broke). I've been using it for about a year now and it works great. I too had to fiddle with the sensitivity switch, but unless I am in a position that blocks the sensors it doesn't flash me at all any more.

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HF currently has three different models and I suspect at least two of them come from different manufacturers. Some models may work better than the others. I've heard good things about the "Blue Flame" version (Model 91214) which I think is priced higher than their other helmets.

Oh, forgot to mention ... I believe both the online description and the manuals say that the blue flame variety supports TIG. Can anyone support this claim?

They only had the blue flame version at the store here. I picked it up on one of their 50% off specials that was in the local paper.

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Originally Posted by undercut

HF currently has three different models and I suspect at least two of them come from different manufacturers. Some models may work better than the others. I've heard good things about the "Blue Flame" version (Model 91214) which I think is priced higher than their other helmets.

Oh, forgot to mention ... I believe both the online description and the manuals say that the blue flame variety supports TIG. Can anyone support this claim?

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Yes, I just looked. It says suitable for TIG greater than 10 A. The cheapest HF auto darkening helmet is like the cheapest NorthernTool helmet. Neither has the sensitivity control. But the next more expensive model from each vendor does.

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Originally Posted by Slartybartfa

Does anyone know why some of the auto-darkening welding shades' literature say specifically that they're not suitable for TIG or plasma cutting?

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The sensors on some of these helmets are not able to pickup the light from TIG and especially plasma. There was a thread a couple of months ago about someone having this exact problem with a helmet (HF helmet, I believe). This is what I thought was going on with my helmet until I found the switch.

Cheers
Mike

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Originally Posted by undercut

I believe both the online description and the manuals say that the blue flame variety supports TIG. Can anyone support this claim?

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Depending on where you look you can find claims that is fine for TIG as well as warnings about it not being ok for low amperage TIG. I have a couple of them and the manuals change from time to time. They are not bad. I think the red one and the blue flame are the same guts, while the plainer one seems different. No comment on the skull. :confused: As long as you don't block the sensors they respond well to TIG. But they are only dual sensor, so it's possible to block them if you are welding around obstructions. Even if an autodark goes off from something, you might get dazzled but you shouldn't get a flash burn. They default to shade #4 when off and have full IR and UV filtering all the time.

Does anyone here have a Miller Digital Elite with the X-Mode function? I have always been curious as to how well that system works and if there are things that can fool it. I've never found an autodark that works reliably when using a mirror or two.

I believe weldingtipsandtricks.com guy reviews one and compares it to some of the cheaper helmets. The X-Mode was pretty cool, depending on your application.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

Depending on where you look you can find claims that is fine for TIG as well as warnings about it not being ok for low amperage TIG. I have a couple of them and the manuals change from time to time. They are not bad. I think the red one and the blue flame are the same guts, while the plainer one seems different. No comment on the skull. :confused: As long as you don't block the sensors they respond well to TIG. But they are only dual sensor, so it's possible to block them if you are welding around obstructions. Even if an autodark goes off from something, you might get dazzled but you shouldn't get a flash burn. They default to shade #4 when off and have full IR and UV filtering all the time.

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Doing too much reading in this forum .... Now I want a plasma cutter. Any idea whether the blue flame HF helmet is OK to use with a plasma cutter? The helmet is on sale now.

For that eventuality, I decided to just stick with the fixed shades until I can get a Fabricator helmet in. No way I'm trusting my eyes to HF...