Power I Mig 205 P qs ? (Size, aluminum, wire speed, flux wire, roll size, new model )

First thing to note is that the specification link for this unit on its web page is broken. It brings up the 140 unit.

Questions.

1) How big is it ?

2) Has anyone done some aluminum welding and wished they got the 250P instead ? I wish the 250P was small like the 205P ! Or, I wish the 205P was more powerful. Aluminum is the only thing that I think I might need more power for.

3) How does one set the wire feed speed on the 205P ? The 250P has a wire feed speed dial.

4) Does the pulse function help when welding flux core wire, ie gasless ? A lot of MIGs are terrible at welding the stuff. I don't have a particular need to weld with flux wire, it would just be handy to do so outside or on dirty metal, which I now do with stick, and not have to stop and change rods all the time. I'm tired of changing rods !

5) Does the pulse function help with aluminum welding ?

6) Can one use small rolls on the 205P ? Or only the big ones ?

7) Any chance there is a new, updated 205P in the works ? I'd buy the 250P if it was a suitcase like the 205P

Thanks !

I like the thoroughness of your questions. I asked a lot of those question in another post. I want an I-Mig 250p so bad.

Why do you want the 250p instead of the 205p ? Just curious and trying to learn.

Does the cart part of the 250P come off ?

How do you like your PowerTIG 250EX ? I bought one but haven't used it yet.

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Originally Posted by someguy

First thing to note is that the specification link for this unit on its web page is broken. It brings up the 140 unit.

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I talked to Oleg about this unit. Here are his answers.

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Questions.

1) How big is it ?

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We skipped this question.

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2) Has anyone done some aluminum welding and wished they got the 250P instead ? I wish the 250P was small like the 205P ! Or, I wish the 205P was more powerful. Aluminum is the only thing that I think I might need more power for.

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Oleg said the 205P would weld 1/4" to 3/8" in a single pass. I assume that means 3/8" aluminum would take full amps which would mean a 35% duty cycle.

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3) How does one set the wire feed speed on the 205P ? The 250P has a wire feed speed dial.

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The 205P sets wire speed automatically as you adjust the amps. I want to be able to adjust wire speed manually.

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4) Does the pulse function help when welding flux core wire, ie gasless ? A lot of MIGs are terrible at welding the stuff. I don't have a particular need to weld with flux wire, it would just be handy to do so outside or on dirty metal, which I now do with stick, and not have to stop and change rods all the time. I'm tired of changing rods !

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I didn't get a direct answer to this. The pulse function on a MIG works like the pulse function on a TIG. Its most suited to welding thin material where you need amps and volts to make an arc, yet you need to shut it down for a bit every cycle so that you don't burn through. I kind of doubt that would play a roll in burning flux core wire, but I've never tried it.

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5) Does the pulse function help with aluminum welding ?

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Thin stuff, yes.

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6) Can one use small rolls on the 205P ? Or only the big ones ?

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From the factory, no. But people have made adapters to do so. One other thing to note is that the 250P has a 4 roller wire feed system, whereas the 205P has a 2 roller system.

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7) Any chance there is a new, updated 205P in the works ? I'd buy the 250P if it was a suitcase like the 205P

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Not at this time.

To summarize, this is what you get for the $300 extra between the 250P and the 205P.

- 250A versus 200A at 35%
- 200A versus 155A at 60%
- 160A versus 110A at 100%
- adjustable wire feed speed on the 250P versus auto on the 205P
- 4 roller feed on the 260P versus 2 roller on the 205P
- 105 pounds versus 50 pounds. Even if the cart componentry (4 wheels and shelf on the back) weigh 20 pounds, its still 85 pounds versus 50 pounds.
- wheels and tank ready cart for the 250P versus needs a cart for the 205P.

I am sensitive to duty cycle when I am stick welding, which means stopping to change rods and chip slag. I am buying a MIG welder so that I don't have to make those stops. And I want to run my amps on the high side to ensure good penetration when I am stick welding. Therefore I think I better pay attention to duty cycle more on a MIG than I would on a stick box.

I think I am going to go with the 250P

For comparison, a Lincoln MIG Pak 180 sells for about $750. At 130A, it has a duty cycle of only 30%. Its rating on aluminum is about 3/16", which is half of the 205P. The Lincoln PowerMIG 180 is rated the same.

A Millermatic 180 at 135A is rated at 30% duty cycle as well.

Either Everlast is inflating its duty cycle specs or the 250P is pretty stout. Although the 205P lags the industry 180 rated machines in amps at 30% duty cycle.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...matic_180.html

The 250P at 200A has a 60% duty cycle, just like the Millermatic 252 does. The 250P lists for $1500 on the website. The 252 sells for $2300 on eBay.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

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Originally Posted by someguy

For comparison, a Lincoln MIG Pak 180 sells for about $750. At 130A, it has a duty cycle of only 30%. Its rating on aluminum is about 3/16", which is half of the 205P. The Lincoln PowerMIG 180 is rated the same.

A Millermatic 180 at 135A is rated at 30% duty cycle as well.

Either Everlast is inflating its duty cycle specs or the 250P is pretty stout. Although the 205P lags the industry 180 rated machines in amps at 30% duty cycle.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...matic_180.html

The 250P at 200A has a 60% duty cycle, just like the Millermatic 252 does. The 250P lists for $1500 on the website. The 252 sells for $2300 on eBay.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

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someguy

please dont forget that Millermatic 252 has NO PULSE :)
I think Miller units with PULSE start at over 3K

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Originally Posted by Oleg

someguy

please dont forget that Millermatic 252 has NO PULSE :)
I think Miller units with PULSE start at over 3K

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And the I-Mig 250p can stick weld.

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Originally Posted by zoama585

And the I-Mig 250p can stick weld.

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Correct.. keep forgetting about that :)

Go ahead and get the 250 you will be happy! I always say get what you need or what you think you may need in the future.
By the time you put a 30lb spool of wire in a 205p I doubt you will be lugging that bad boy around!

I have found the ultimate combo for me and I am sure many others, is an IMIG200 and IMIG250P.

The 200 is flux core and used on the road with a 5500 watt generator, the 250P is roll-around the shop with argon and make it pretty. The 200P is pretty strong, but not a 205P or 250P. That said, there is a bigger cost this way.

I just picked up a 205P to see if I can replace the 200 for portable and a little more power, maybe replace the 250P as well. It can be moved with a 10lbs roll, but not like the 200. The extra power is nice though. It is a good pick if on a budget or limited in space, and you want portable and power.

And as said, for the shop, the 250P is great.

A little off topic, but still related:

A lot of these machines have many types of controls (amp up time, pre flow, etc).

I know welders who went to schools for this stuff know what they are for already, but Above Average Joes like me try those settings out and think to ourselves, "What difference did that make? I didn't notice anything."

Does Everlast have a section on their website that says, "Here's where you'd use this setting and what exactly it does." ???

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Originally Posted by jp2code

A little off topic, but still related:

A lot of these machines have many types of controls (amp up time, pre flow, etc).

I know welders who went to schools for this stuff know what they are for already, but Above Average Joes like me try those settings out and think to ourselves, "What difference did that make? I didn't notice anything."

Does Everlast have a section on their website that says, "Here's where you'd use this setting and what exactly it does." ???

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You can pull the latest ITIG manuals for a description of the controls. Not sure, other than the obvious AC and things, if it gives a lot of detail. Best thing is pull our manual and google the functions name. Note, we call pulse duty cycle, pulse time ON to try to keep it simple.
I will look to see what I can find as well.

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

You can pull the latest ITIG manuals for a description of the controls. Not sure, other than the obvious AC and things, if it gives a lot of detail. Best thing is pull our manual and google the functions name. Note, we call pulse duty cycle, pulse time ON to try to keep it simple.
I will look to see what I can find as well.

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Thanks Mike. You guys are on top of stuff over here! A+

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Originally Posted by someguy

I talked to Oleg about this unit. Here are his answers.

We skipped this question.

Oleg said the 205P would weld 1/4" to 3/8" in a single pass. I assume that means 3/8" aluminum would take full amps which would mean a 35% duty cycle.

The 205P sets wire speed automatically as you adjust the amps. I want to be able to adjust wire speed manually.

I didn't get a direct answer to this. The pulse function on a MIG works like the pulse function on a TIG. Its most suited to welding thin material where you need amps and volts to make an arc, yet you need to shut it down for a bit every cycle so that you don't burn through. I kind of doubt that would play a roll in burning flux core wire, but I've never tried it.

Thin stuff, yes.

From the factory, no. But people have made adapters to do so. One other thing to note is that the 250P has a 4 roller wire feed system, whereas the 205P has a 2 roller system.

Not at this time.

To summarize, this is what you get for the $300 extra between the 250P and the 205P.

- 250A versus 200A at 35%
- 200A versus 155A at 60%
- 160A versus 110A at 100%
- adjustable wire feed speed on the 250P versus auto on the 205P
- 4 roller feed on the 260P versus 2 roller on the 205P
- 105 pounds versus 50 pounds. Even if the cart componentry (4 wheels and shelf on the back) weigh 20 pounds, its still 85 pounds versus 50 pounds.
- wheels and tank ready cart for the 250P versus needs a cart for the 205P.

I am sensitive to duty cycle when I am stick welding, which means stopping to change rods and chip slag. I am buying a MIG welder so that I don't have to make those stops. And I want to run my amps on the high side to ensure good penetration when I am stick welding. Therefore I think I better pay attention to duty cycle more on a MIG than I would on a stick box.

I think I am going to go with the 250P

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Someguy,

A few comments to clarify:

The 205P isn't enough power for welding steel with pulse correctly, at least not in spray mode as it should be. Aluminum, however takes less power to spray.
The amp control is simply the wire speed control. It isn't "automatic". Amp/Wire feed are the same thing. Wire speed controls amps. They are directly tied together. Either term and way of looking at it is correct. Other welders on the market in the past and today use amps as the setting. It is just another way of looking at it. In other words: THERE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENCE>

Pulse on a MIG does NOT work like Pulse on a TIG. In fact, there are two types of pulse on a MIG, single and double. Our migs are single pulse. That means a faster pulse speed. IF you are looking for a stack of dimes this is not that kind of pulse. The minimum pulse frequency is 20 hz, and that is enough to make a nice, close ripple, but not what some people are thinking. The pulse actually pulses voltage, and not amps(wire speed). Pulse on a MIG is SUPPOSED to be used for spray transfer process, and the pulse dip in volts, brings it back down into the globular transfer long enough to cool the weld, but not actually transfer any metal while in the globular voltage range. Some people try to use single pulse for short circuit mode , but it simply isn't designed for this, and cold fusion will likely result. Use of special blend gas of 90/10, or pure argon (for aluminum) is required.

Duty cycle at 35% is rarely achieved especially welding at 200 amps (max wire speed).

MIG pulse is NOT for the beginner, especially for a manually set pulse MIG. It is an advanced process that takes every resource of a trained, and skilled MIG welder to understand and recognize a properly set pulse MIG. It is not like setting a tig, to suit your taste. There are a number of variables that have to be set just right to achieve a proper pulse weld. That is why most, if not all pulse migs on the market these days are synergic, and pre programmed. These units are NOT! Pulse time on, and pulse differential (pulse voltages) and frequency each must be in correct sync or you will have a hard time setting it. IT is something that is not easy to do. And unfortunately, no graph can be given because it is relatively complex...and you are using analog controls. So, sight and sound have to be your guide. If you have never pulse sprayed before, and are not familiar with it, it is not going to be easy. My recommendation is if you are going to buy it, study up on pulse MIG welding. Very little public information is out there on it, though. If you are looking for information, go back to some older texts books. If I remember right, the AWS doesn't recognize pulse mig as a process to be used in production. These machines though operate very similar to the pulse MIGs of the 70's and 80's, before synergic, processor controlled MIG came around that could manage all these parameters for you.

Finally, the thickness of metal it will weld will vary on joint prep. Don't expect to achieve great results if you are trying to butt weld 3/8" metal...Not unless you have 500 amps to play with.

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Originally Posted by performance

Someguy,

A few comments to clarify:

The 205P isn't enough power for welding steel with pulse correctly, at least not in spray mode as it should be. Aluminum, however takes less power to spray.
The amp control is simply the wire speed control. It isn't "automatic". Amp/Wire feed are the same thing. Wire speed controls amps. They are directly tied together. Either term and way of looking at it is correct. Other welders on the market in the past and today use amps as the setting. It is just another way of looking at it. In other words: THERE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENCE>

Pulse on a MIG does NOT work like Pulse on a TIG. In fact, there are two types of pulse on a MIG, single and double. Our migs are single pulse. That means a faster pulse speed. IF you are looking for a stack of dimes this is not that kind of pulse. The minimum pulse frequency is 20 hz, and that is enough to make a nice, close ripple, but not what some people are thinking. The pulse actually pulses voltage, and not amps(wire speed). Pulse on a MIG is SUPPOSED to be used for spray transfer process, and the pulse dip in volts, brings it back down into the globular transfer long enough to cool the weld, but not actually transfer any metal while in the globular voltage range. Some people try to use single pulse for short circuit mode , but it simply isn't designed for this, and cold fusion will likely result. Use of special blend gas of 90/10, or pure argon (for aluminum) is required.

Duty cycle at 35% is rarely achieved especially welding at 200 amps (max wire speed).

MIG pulse is NOT for the beginner, especially for a manually set pulse MIG. It is an advanced process that takes every resource of a trained, and skilled MIG welder to understand and recognize a properly set pulse MIG. It is not like setting a tig, to suit your taste. There are a number of variables that have to be set just right to achieve a proper pulse weld. That is why most, if not all pulse migs on the market these days are synergic, and pre programmed. These units are NOT! Pulse time on, and pulse differential (pulse voltages) and frequency each must be in correct sync or you will have a hard time setting it. IT is something that is not easy to do. And unfortunately, no graph can be given because it is relatively complex...and you are using analog controls. So, sight and sound have to be your guide. If you have never pulse sprayed before, and are not familiar with it, it is not going to be easy. My recommendation is if you are going to buy it, study up on pulse MIG welding. Very little public information is out there on it, though. If you are looking for information, go back to some older texts books. If I remember right, the AWS doesn't recognize pulse mig as a process to be used in production. These machines though operate very similar to the pulse MIGs of the 70's and 80's, before synergic, processor controlled MIG came around that could manage all these parameters for you.

Finally, the thickness of metal it will weld will vary on joint prep. Don't expect to achieve great results if you are trying to butt weld 3/8" metal...Not unless you have 500 amps to play with.

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Attachment 5216 Since you hold this rare knowledge, you could make some videos for our relatively empty youtube channel. :)

I have asked for one of the units to be sent at least a dozen times...or more. Can't make videos without the product.

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Originally Posted by performance

I have asked for one of the units to be sent at least a dozen times...or more. Can't make videos without the product.

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What do you mean by this ? You can't get a 205P ?

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Finally, the thickness of metal it will weld will vary on joint prep. Don't expect to achieve great results if you are trying to butt weld 3/8" metal...Not unless you have 500 amps to play with.

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??????? Can't butt weld 3/8" steel ????

That's what I said. Getting units out for video is apparently low on the priority list with Oleg. I have asked for a 250P for several years now to test. It's in his court.

No, you can't butt weld 3/8" steel. The "capability" we and our competitors refer to is not typically a buttweld joint. It is an edge prepared joint. It takes approx 1 amp per .001" of metal thickness to make a "butt weld" and get anywhere near 100% penetration.

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Originally Posted by performance

No, you can't butt weld 3/8" steel. The "capability" we and our competitors refer to is not typically a buttweld joint. It is an edge prepared joint. It takes approx 1 amp per .001" of metal thickness to make a "butt weld" and get anywhere near 100% penetration.

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I've done some butt welding with MIG, just keep the wire over close to the weld puddle.

In this video below, Jody shows a weld on a corner joint, downhill, at 4:00 and 4:30 minutes into the clip where he uses the puddle to MIG with a gap.

Side note: Even though my downhill welds were always beautiful, I'd always been told, "You can't weld downhill because it will introduce cracks into the weld." He does it in the video below, though. Was I told wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=r5PkDri0pYQ

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Originally Posted by performance

I have asked for one of the units to be sent at least a dozen times...or more. Can't make videos without the product.

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Thanks for the info....

Hey Oleg, what's the hold up... you want people to subscribe to a relatively empty youtube channel ?... what's the point. Videos sell welders. I bought mine after seeing a video of it.

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Originally Posted by zoama585

Hey Oleg, what's the hold up... you want people to subscribe to a relatively empty youtube channel ?... what's the point. Videos sell welders. I bought mine after seeing a video of it.

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+1. I like videos!

I totally agree. When I look at welders I look for everyy video out there of that product or a close product to compare with. The videos out there of the powerarc200 sold me on it. And other everlast welders with the arc used in videos seeing how good they really do work.

It takes time for sure, and I have a 205P powerultra to video, but not the good stuff.

Maybe if we can get the 250 ext up and going, then I could get one out of it before he ships it out to someone. Point is, I get the cheap stuff to video.

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Originally Posted by jp2code

I've done some butt welding with MIG, just keep the wire over close to the weld puddle.

In this video below, Jody shows a weld on a corner joint, downhill, at 4:00 and 4:30 minutes into the clip where he uses the puddle to MIG with a gap.

Side note: Even though my downhill welds were always beautiful, I'd always been told, "You can't weld downhill because it will introduce cracks into the weld." He does it in the video below, though. Was I told wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r5PkDri0pYQ

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No, it won't introduce cracks in the weld, or nearly every small trailer, and cargo trailer manufacturer in this country is in deep doo -doo. Not properly done, it can have issues such as slag entrapment or incomplete fusion, which would cause cracking at the weak points, but you are not "introducing" cracks to the weld necessarily, other than for incomplete fusion.

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Originally Posted by performance

No, it won't introduce cracks in the weld, or nearly every small trailer, and cargo trailer manufacturer in this country is in deep doo -doo. Not properly done, it can have issues such as slag entrapment or incomplete fusion, which would cause cracking at the weak points, but you are not "introducing" cracks to the weld necessarily, other than for incomplete fusion.

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Thanks for the follow-up, Mark.