Is this really a way to set the amperage on a 200 DX ?

The other day in another welding forum I stumbled across a post about a way to utilize the digital display on what sounded like an Everlast 200 DX type machine for setting the pedal amperage for TIG. I looked for a similar post on this forum but didn't see anything. I've only had my machine for a week or so and although I'm a pedal person I've been using the torch trigger just because it's a new feature for me. I'm used to having the panel knob and display always control the max amperage so the adjustment knob on the 200 DX pedal I got is something new to me. I've read the posts on this forum and I think I understand how everything is going to work on this welder when I connect the pedal. Here's the setup process he explained:

When you plug in the pedal it overrides the panel knob and the max amperage is set using the pedal knob and pedal position. You can set the max amperage using the display from the pedal by temporarily switching to the Stick welding position. Now when you operate the pedal knob or pedal you'll see the amperage on the display without even striking an arc. He goes on to say that you can also use this technique to set the pulse current if the rate is set to the minimum. Switch back to TIG when you're ready to weld.

No welding for me today but I did go out, plug in my pedal and play with this a bit. The amperage values did seem to follow the pedal knob and pedal position as he claimed. The display also appeared to go up and down in a logical manner in pulse mode. So has anyone else played with this setup technique? Is it really a valid way to set up pedal currents using the display? Since the max Stick current is 160 vs. 200 on TIG and you are switching back and forth if it does work is it really displaying the true max TIG current?

Gary

can anyone advise on this question?

That's exactly how it works on my Super200P. I think I've heard on this forum somewhere that the newer, 200 amp IGBT-based everlast machines with the current knob in the pedal (specifically, 200DX) work similarly, but I can't personally vouch for this. I don't know about a machine that would have a different max stick welding output than TIG. (I believe my Super200 has equal max current output for both stick welding mode as it does TIG.)

One tip if you do this technique for amp adjustment in TIG mode - be sure to remember to put it back into TIG mode before you go to set up to weld. Otherwise, if when setting up to weld, you touch the tungsten to the work while the machine is still in stick welding mode, you're going to experience a bad moment as it's going to make an arc strike without any shielding gas.

Another way to set or verify the welding current, is if you can actually hold the TIG arc while not looking at it (and instead look over at your machine panel readout...) the panel will read out the actual amperage that is being welded with at that moment. Try and keep a steady arc length, and probably best to do this on a scrap piece of metal.

You can simply step on the pedal, start the arc, and watch the maximum.
Amp values with foot pedals are relative to begin with. The 200DX is an entry level unit and does not set the same as the more expensive units.
Alternatively, I think it is possible to set it by flipping it to lift tig as well and set the amp values while stepping on the pedal without starting the arc. Though, right now my memory is a little vague on that.
After a few hours of use, you can pretty much tell by the reading of a - to + number reading ranging from something like -20 to +15 or so ( more or less) indicated on the panel as a reliable mark to correspond to max amps. In other words, the panel does read, but doesn't give an actual reading.

Using the stick to set the tig is far from accurate.

It was interesting to see my post surface again after lots of views but no responses. I'd posted the question not long after I'd received my 200 DX and I was trying to learn as much as possible about how it operated. From an engineering perspective I'm curious as to why the panel knob and display had to work differently when you were using the torch switch vs. the pedal. My first TIG was a ThermalArc 250 GTS and the panel amperage control governed the maximum current in all operating modes whether you were using a pedal or not. My ThermalArc is DC only I'd wanted to be able to make aluminum projects and repairs at home and I thought the 200 DX looked like a good value.

After using my 200 DX for a number of repairs and projects using DC with the torch switch and AC with the pedal I'm more than completely pleased with the unit. It had been a couple of years since I'd had a chance to TIG weld aluminum at the local CC using Miller Dynasty's and I was happy to see that the technique came right back, the results with my 200 DX were excellent. So while the engineer in me would still to know the why of the 200 DX pedal design the welder in me no longer cares :^) I'm just rough setting the pedal knob and if I'm not getting the results I need from the pedal operation I'll tweak it a bit. In fact I've done quite a bit of welding on a variety of projects without even readjusting the pedal knob.

As a hobbyist I couldn't justify the extra $500 or so for the 250 and I'm 100% satisfied with my 200 DX.

Gary

Gary,
You provided your own answer about the 200DX in the last sentence. It is 500.00 extra. (Really 200+ for the 225lx) Each increasing price points offer more features. This isn't a TA GTS at a much higher price. We try to price things with more features for what you pay, while offering more power. This has worked well for us in offering additional features/additional power. We seem to sell out of all of it.

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Originally Posted by performance

You can simply step on the pedal, start the arc, and watch the maximum.

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Simply?!, It's just that it's hard to maintain the proper distance to keep an arc going, and look at the readout, and step on the pedal while turning the pedal knob at the same time. It is like an acrobatic feat. Add in the need to look at three places at the same time. it is just a bit difficult.

My pedal that came with the 200DX does not have an adjust knob on it.

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Originally Posted by Buzz

My pedal that came with the 200DX does not have an adjust knob on it.

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Buzz that's interesting... Just when I was ready to step away from the discussion you tossed in a new twist. So when did you get your 200 DX? How does your pedal work? Does the pedal movement always change the amperage from minimum to 200 amps or does the panel knob and display somehow affect the amperage range?

Gary

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Originally Posted by Tinker

After using my 200 DX for a number of repairs and projects using DC with the torch switch and AC with the pedal I'm more than completely pleased with the unit.

So while the engineer in me would still to know the why of the 200 DX pedal design the welder in me no longer cares :^) I'm just rough setting the pedal knob and if I'm not getting the results I need from the pedal operation I'll tweak it a bit. In fact I've done quite a bit of welding on a variety of projects without even readjusting the pedal knob.

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This is what I was waiting to hear, thanks. They should print that right on the box.

Buzz give them a call. UNLESS for some wierd reason you can limit amps on the panel.

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Originally Posted by performance

Buzz give them a call. UNLESS for some wierd reason you can limit amps on the panel.

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Last night I was using the pedal and turned the panel knob way down, I then struck an arc and floored it, Ithere was very little amperage , then I turned it up to max 200 amps and it was all there. I'll tryit again tonight or tomorrow. I'll have to try it looking at the display.

Well, I set the panel at 25 amp, covered the torch from my eyes and struck an arc, I mashed the pedal and it only went to 25 amp, I repeated this at 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 amps, each time the amps on the panel only went to the dialed in setting. Isn't this the way its supposed to work? I don't see any reason to have a knob on the pedal.

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Originally Posted by Buzz

Well, I set the panel at 25 amp, covered the torch from my eyes and struck an arc, I mashed the pedal and it only went to 25 amp, I repeated this at 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 amps, each time the amps on the panel only went to the dialed in setting. Isn't this the way its supposed to work? I don't see any reason to have a knob on the pedal.

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Wow, the plot thickens... Yes Buzz this is certainly the way that I and it seems like others think it SHOULD work. I was puzzled by the pedal knob which is why I wrote this original post. Just to better understand what you're seeing when you move the panel knob does the displayed amperage go from the lowest value (since you're not pushing the pedal) momentarily up to your panel knob setting then it drops back to the lowest value until you start welding. Then if you push the pedal all the way down the displayed amperage goes up to the max value you set?

I'll play with mine a bit more tomorrow to see if I can duplicate what you're seeing even though my pedal does have a knob (I'll turn the pedal knob all the way up first). My 200 DX is a fairly recent build and I'd assumed up to date on any revisions which is why I'd asked about your machine. My serial number is 02663533 and it passed final inspection on 10/22/2011. What about yours?

Thanks, Gary

Yes, If I set it at say 100 amps, when I strike an arc the amps drop down to a lower starting amp as per pedal position, as I press the pedal the amps increase up what ever position the pedal is in but not over 100 amps, I can then taper off the pedal and the amps will go down.

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Originally Posted by Tinker

Wow, the plot thickens... Yes Buzz this is certainly the way that I and it seems like others think it SHOULD work. I was puzzled by the pedal knob which is why I wrote this original post. Just to better understand what you're seeing when you move the panel knob does the displayed amperage go from the lowest value (since you're not pushing the pedal) momentarily up to your panel knob setting then it drops back to the lowest value until you start welding. Then if you push the pedal all the way down the displayed amperage goes up to the max value you set?

I'll play with mine a bit more tomorrow to see if I can duplicate what you're seeing even though my pedal does have a knob (I'll turn the pedal knob all the way up first). My 200 DX is a fairly recent build and I'd assumed up to date on any revisions which is why I'd asked about your machine. My serial number is 02663533 and it passed final inspection on 10/22/2011. What about yours?

Thanks, Gary

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Does your pedal look like this:

http://www.ssccontrols.com/images/pr...%20RFCS-14.jpg


or this:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...ot-Pedal_1.gif


or this:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...5&d=1313954836http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...6&d=1313954838

That is strange. Maybe good.. maybe the pedal knob is the only thing preventing the readout before striking. We're gonna have to put that pedal under the microscope Buzz..

Buzz,
When did you get your unit? We had a few "special" DX's that were built that we made privately available to some customers that were interested.

I ordered it Jan 3rd and got it a week ago.

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Originally Posted by performance

Buzz,
When did you get your unit? We had a few "special" DX's that were built that we made privately available to some customers that were interested.

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It kinda looks like the 2nd one, I'll get a pic of it. Theres also a part # on it.

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Originally Posted by Joe from NY

Does your pedal look like this:

http://www.ssccontrols.com/images/pr...%20RFCS-14.jpg


or this:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...ot-Pedal_1.gif


or this:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...5&d=1313954836http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...6&d=1313954838

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They're leaving you out of the loop Mark, this is not good.

Here's some pics of my pedal

My 200DX pedal has a different number on it:

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...4608Medium.jpg

It looks like you got the 47K pot on yours.

Pics of my pedal wire connector and the machine itself.

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Originally Posted by Joe from NY

My 200DX pedal has a different number on it:



It looks like you got the 47K pot on yours.

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Whats the difference? Im assuming the pot is the potentiometer

i think Mark can explain that for us.

Externally my pedal looks just like the one that Buzz has but it's got the adjustment pot/knob to the left of the cable. The part number is the same as Joe's (FT-2.2K-CL) so I'm guessing that Joe and I have exactly the same pedal. I took a good look at mine when I first rec'd the unit and made a few resistance measurements. The pot that's operated by the pedal measures about 2.3K ohms at max resistance, close enough to the 2.2K I figure is indicated by the pedal part number. The knob pot measures 48K ohms at max resistance. I looked at the schematic of the "new" pedal in the forum and mine is close except the schematic shows only a single 47K ohm pot. Maybe that's the one Buzz has?

My pinout looks like:
1 - 2 = The start switch closure.
3 - 4 = The pedal pot resistance.
3 - 5 = The knob pot resistance.
6 - 7 = Connected together.

I'd have to take the pedal apart to make sure I've captured all the connections. Perhaps Mark can confirm that the schematic posted on the forum is the FT-47K-CL version that Buzz has and if there is a schematic of the FT-2.2K-CL available?

I should have some time later today to fire up my 200 DX and make a few more observations of how it operates vs. the one that Buzz has :^)

It would be quite nice if the only difference between the way our units operate is the pedal but that may be wishful thinking until we get more answers or we dig into things a bit more. Mark we're not trying to drive you crazy with all these detailed questions but you may be dealing with a couple or few perfectionists in this post :^)

Gary

What happens If you set your amperage on the panel, say 100 amps but set the pedal to max, wouldn't the panel over ride the pedal?

How many "green" knobs do you have on the bottom row?

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Originally Posted by performance

How many "green" knobs do you have on the bottom row?

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I have 3, Preflow, postflow and down slope. I see the pic on the website only has 2 , post flow and down slope.

you have some extra features there. pulse range is different too.

Well, it looks like I ordered my 200DX about a month too soon. The new one has more features.

Hopefully the upgrades are here to stay.
Interesting that no one seems to know about them.

I'm wondering if the display is an upgrade, or we just got mis-matched pedals. Is the pedal knob the culprit?

No,
There were a handful of these models produced to field test some new features. They got jumbled into our regular stock it looks like I just assumed everyone knew they had gotten a "special" model.

There are some upgrades to the unit that will be going on that will be permanent...such as a dual voltage model.

Wow, after all this discussion I'm certainly very disappointed in the product management, configuration control and the documentation we've been exploring. The pedal I've got on my 200 DX seems to match the one posted that's identified as the "Super 200 PI". The one that's identified as the one that's used on the IGBT line (like my 200 DX???) sounds like the one that Buzz has on his unit. Confusing.

No Jake98 unfortunately just changing to the "new" knob-less pedal isn't going to make the display and panel knob on our version of the 200 DX work the way we expected it to operate or like the one that Buzz was lucky enough to receive. I did a few experiments with my pedal and it won't change the operation of our units.

One of you guys made a comment about the design/factory folks needing to keep the rest of the team in the loop in order to effectively address these kind of discussions. I'll second that thought.

Looks like some of us may have just missed getting a design that works the way we would have expected it to operate right from the get go. I can live with the fact that product enhancements are going to take place adding features like the pre-flow, etc. but I am disappointed that the operation of the display, panel knob and the pedal knob wasn't made clear in the specs or literature. Would I have bumped up to the 250 to get a unit that operated the way I expected along with some additional features? After all this discussion, quite possibly...

Gary

Tinker,
I think you misunderstood.
I was in the LOOP on things. Who do you think designed the new panel features for that unit? I don't work in the California office. So, I am not worried about every detail that happens out there. I knew those units were out, hence my question about the number of green knobs. Someone got it shipped to them. Actually, that should be a pleasant surprise. I just didn't know that everyone who received one wasn't aware of the unit "specialness". If anything it ought to prove we are working on product improvements. The boxes are identical. They all have 200DX. The DX has ALWAYS had the knob on the pedal. The "new" DX IF it were to be offered would include a substantial price increase, most likely. This was a limited run of units that are not being produced at this time. You also haven't looked at our website, because in bold letters, it tells you that the 200 DX is different and how it works. There are pictures, that are very clear of the panel as well. The fault is not ours on this one. It IS in black and white...and green. Scroll down the page and read. This has been there for well over a year now. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Po...DX-351-pd.html

We do everything we can to inform the customer about the product. It is there. Short of having a loud voice come on the computer speakers and shout at you that is.

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Originally Posted by performance

Short of having a loud voice come on the computer speakers and shout at you that is.

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That would be great! Can you really do that?? :D

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Originally Posted by performance

Tinker,
Someone got it shipped to them. Actually, that should be a pleasant surprise. I just didn't know that everyone who received one wasn't aware of the unit "specialness".

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I sure wasn't. I never would have known had I not read this thread. Im diggin the "specialness" I haven't tried it on AC yet, although I dont thing it would make a difference.

Well I can see that we've exhausted this thread... Mark, no misunderstanding I was just seconding the point that Jake made in post #21. Back in post #11 your comment that "UNLESS for some weird reason you can limit amps on the panel" didn't help to put our questions to rest.

I'd disagree that the operation of the panel display is clearly described on the web site. " Digital readout for accurate setting of amperage controls." had me thinking that it operated in a similar way in all modes with or without the pedal. I haven't used everyone's welder but don't most all of them work that way? The foot pedal spec states "YES/OVERIDES PANEL AMPS. SET/LIMIT MAX AVAILABLE AMPS ON WITH KNOB ON PEDAL". While after reading this thread, a few others and actually playing with the unit I now realize that the panel knob and the pedal knob work completely differently along the digital display. IF the pedal knob overrode the panel knob BUT the digital display preset the max amps for either knob I'd have less of a disagreement with the specs as documented. Sure I could have called to make sure how it operated but I'd assumed it would work like the other machines I've used so I didn't know to even ask

Also as I pointed out the pedal documentation that's included in the forum seems a bit inaccurate. The schematic for the new pedal for the IGBT line (which includes the 200 DX, doesn't it?) posted back in August 2009 shows just a single 47K pot. That sounds like the one that Buzz rec'd for his IGBT 200 DX but not what some of the rest of us rec'd.

So far my particular 200 DX has performed very nicely as a welder it's just the unconventional way it handles the display, panel and pedal knob that's a bit of a disappointment... Does it really impact it's usability as a welder, no but it still bugs me. Yea, after all this I would have sprung for the 250 or at least the 225 and been delighted with the display. Crazy, well I've been called worse ;^)