TIG cooler question for my custom build.

So, I will be starting a new thread on building a custom cooler for my new TIG machine, as I seem to be stumbling across the parts I will need to get the thing built faster than I'm coming across the funding to buy my new EVERLAST 250LX. So here's the question. Why does a cooler have to be made of either stainless or copper? More specifically I recently read, and I can't for the life of me find the source, I think it was a website for coolant fluid, but it specifically said that a TIG cooler must NOT be made of aluminum, or have any aluminum in the plumbing, cooler element, or anywhere else in the system. Could somebody tell me why? The reason I ask is that I had initially planned on using a factory transmission cooler from a Ford f250, but to the best of my knowledge, it's aluminum. Now I'm in the process of finding a heater core, custom core, or even a small radiator, so long as it's brand new and made of brass, stainless, or copper. Just wondering why no aluminum?

HI Hooda
I think it is corrosion that seems to be the hank up. With the tig torch orifices that are so small that they can get plugged up.
Some guys use anti-freeze for a auto with aluminum engine parts, some use distilled water only.

Have fun
Tom

The aluminum issue has to due with galvanic corrosion. Aluminum is much higher on the activity series than copper. The coolant will act as an electrolyte (you can add corrosion inhibitors, but still) and the aluminum will act as a sacrificial anode, donating electrons to the copper to keep the copper clean and bright, while the aluminum oxidizes as a result As part of the oxidation, it will disintegrate. Chunks of corroded aluminum will come off and plug the torch and act as abrasive in the pump.

I built my torch cooler out of an evaporator from a window AC unit. It had aluminum fins, but the pipes were copper, and it was clean, and bright on the inside. I used plastic tubing and brass fittings for the rest.

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Originally Posted by parkour

I built my torch cooler out of an evaporator from a window AC unit. It had aluminum fins, but the pipes were copper, and it was clean, and bright on the inside. I used plastic tubing and brass fittings for the rest.

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I just last week saw a couple of window AC units, in working order for dirt cheap. I never thought of them as a donor for this project, but now, as soon as I get the time I will go and pick up one of these. The smaller unit is only about 20" wide x 12"high, so the evaporator should be about perfect for this application. The fins were all nice and straight, so at the cost of $25.00, I call that a steal. The way it's going, all I need now are a pump, and I would like to put a pressure gauge and flow indicator on the front panel. And I'll be ready to start a new thread on the actual build. The goal will be for the unit to sit under whichever EVERLAST welder I end up buying, So it looks like a slick, ready-made package, similar to what the "big guys" offer on their high end TIG welder packages. I always have liked the color green better!:D Thanks again for the tip!!

I am going to try my own cooler unit, and was thinking of using some copper radiator piping. This is 1/2" copper pipe with aluminum cooling fins - and if I build a serpentine array with that pipe, and have the fluid pumped through, it should cool pretty well. I might mount a few PC fans to blow air through, have a reservoir tank, and coolant pump, and voila! Cooler.

Either that or pop the $400 and get one that just plugs in. I might have to do that since I need a quick start once I get the 250EXT.

Cheers,

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike J

I need a quick start once I get the 250EXT.

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If you have a faucet or hose bib and a drain near the welder, you can just run tap water through it for cooling. The EXT has hose barbs for in and out, so a few bucks worth of fittings + hose gets you going.

Im doingthe computer fan route as well, just got an old power source, going to the pick n part to get an ac condensor or oil cooler, then a fish pump and ill fab a tank.

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Originally Posted by jerky

Im doingthe computer fan route as well, just got an old power source, going to the pick n part to get an ac condensor or oil cooler, then a fish pump and ill fab a tank.

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Don't mix metals. Keep it all copper or brass.

so ive been sourcing parts, looking into computer fans to cool the condensor, and ive found fans for 4$ a pop.but i wonder if this 130$ computer cooler would be enough? ( http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX33765 ) has two fans built in already, copper core,pump, all a guy would have to do is cut the tubes, put a res in and tie it into the torch. not bad for the price

I am looking at a flojet pump for my cooler.

http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/c-997-...?pagesize=9999

Some of these pumps have a good flow curve that taper off at 50-60 psi and with a small bypass line to the tank the pressure to the torch supply pressure can be maintained at 50 psi. Best bet is to check out the models pump curves at the manufactures web page for the model chosen:

http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/floj...ragm-pumps.htm

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Originally Posted by jerky

so ive been sourcing parts, looking into computer fans to cool the condensor, and ive found fans for 4$ a pop.but i wonder if this 130$ computer cooler would be enough? ( http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX33765 ) has two fans built in already, copper core,pump, all a guy would have to do is cut the tubes, put a res in and tie it into the torch. not bad for the price

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The corsair kits have the pump (very weak) built into the cpu block so that won't work. If you want to go the computer cooling route, I would use this rad http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-RX-480-...r-pr-4430.html and this pump http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCP...p-pr-4750.html but shop the prices and find the best deal.

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Originally Posted by DVA

I am looking at a flojet pump for my cooler.

http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/c-997-...?pagesize=9999

Some of these pumps have a good flow curve that taper off at 50-60 psi and with a small bypass line to the tank the pressure to the torch supply pressure can be maintained at 50 psi. Best bet is to check out the models pump curves at the manufactures web page for the model chosen:

http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/floj...ragm-pumps.htm

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Be sure to have a filter in line. When the diaphragm fails on those pumps it will send little pieces down the line. They also pulse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerky

so ive been sourcing parts, looking into computer fans to cool the condensor, and ive found fans for 4$ a pop.but i wonder if this 130$ computer cooler would be enough? ( http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX33765 ) has two fans built in already, copper core,pump, all a guy would have to do is cut the tubes, put a res in and tie it into the torch. not bad for the price

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It's simply unpossible for that to work. You need a cooler the size of a grocery cart to keep the torch from melting at any welding currents over 0.5 A.

Yea, I'm joking. I had not thought of an integrated solution like that, but I had thought that something about that size would be fine. It looks like the pump is build into the water block. Those 80mm blowers may be a bit slow/quiet/lowcfm It may be good to get some beefier ones. I'm not sure where you fill that thing at. It may need a reservoir/expansion tank to deal with the water expanding as it heats.

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Originally Posted by parkour

It's simply unpossible for that to work. You need a cooler the size of a grocery cart to keep the torch from melting at any welding currents over 0.5 A.

Yea, I'm joking. I had not thought of an integrated solution like that, but I had thought that something about that size would be fine. It looks like the pump is build into the water block. Those 80mm blowers may be a bit slow/quiet/lowcfm It may be good to get some beefier ones. I'm not sure where you fill that thing at. It may need a reservoir/expansion tank to deal with the water expanding as it heats.

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ya thats why i said cut the lines, add a res, and connect to torch. im just sourcing ideas, and the whole unit as a pump, core and fan unit is efficent. bigger fans are easily mounted and are dirt cheap as well. just a though though.

What filter do you guys use? I saw this one on ebay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Torchsaver-W...item2eb954ce63 wondered if it is any good?

Jerky; sorry, I clearly did not read your post carefully enough.
I do like the idea of the compact unit though.

Cuda; I did not use a filter in mine, and of all the coolers I've looked at, this is the first I hear of using a filter. It is an interesting idea though. The tiny 5 micron filter that thing has will require some significant pressure to produce any appreciable flow, so anything less than a procon style pump (as pictured and commonly used) is probably out.

A brass or stainless screen type would be fine.

I got myself a 120mm computer fan from radio shack, a heater core from a crown vic, and a 12v marine bilge pump from HF. A 2.5 gallon plastic gas can for the tank, along with a converted computer power source for the 12 volts, works just fine. The fittings can be found at a good hardware store. I decided to use brass air compressor couplings to connect up the torch to the cooler.

I set the power source to 240v and used a computer extension cord to plug into the back of the welder.

It works for me even though sometimes it's cranky to start up sometimes. I've gone up to 225 amps with no problem at all.

In this forum, I've seen some great setups with all kinds of money spent on fittings. It all depends on your preferences.

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Originally Posted by Grizzly1944

I got myself a 120mm computer fan from radio shack, a heater core from a crown vic, and a 12v marine bilge pump from HF. A 2.5 gallon plastic gas can for the tank, along with a converted computer power source for the 12 volts, works just fine. The fittings can be found at a good hardware store. I decided to use brass air compressor couplings to connect up the torch to the cooler.

I set the power source to 240v and used a computer extension cord to plug into the back of the welder.

It works for me even though sometimes it's cranky to start up sometimes. I've gone up to 225 amps with no problem at all.

In this forum, I've seen some great setups with all kinds of money spent on fittings. It all depends on your preferences.

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Could you post a picture of the pump itself please ? How long are your lines ?

This one?
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_16546.jpg

The manual says 13' of lift... I assume that is at zero flow. Then just pushing water horrizontally (zero lift), it will flow 1000 gph. 13 feet works out to be 5.6 psi. This is not the first I hear of using such a sedate pump for a cooler.

It makes me wonder why so many people are running around using those procon pumps with 1/4 hp motors and 60+ psi. It just doesn't seem necessary. Oft repeated wrong/obsolete info maybe? I really like Grizzly's report of a 120mm computer fan working - a sedate part. The whole cooler could be put into a quiet, compact package this way - like your inverter welder.

CK Worldwide and weldcraft specify a minimum of 1 quart per minute of coolant flow to achieve the published power and duty cycle ratings for their TIG torches.

I've had a watercooled TIG torch lead failure happen before, from using an underpowered cooler pump. The coolant simply boiled away and the power cable overheated near the machine:
Attachment 4139

That happened using this pump that just sat in the bottom of a bucket. (I think it was called an "aquarium pump"; reminds me of what you posted above.) After the failure, I measured the flow and through those leads (they were 25' long), and I found the flow with that bucket pump was barely mustering .25 quart per minute. Less than 1/4 of what the manufacturer specified:
Attachment 4138

After switching it to city water pressure, the flow increased to a little over 1 quart per minute, and this extra flow was able to keep the new torch leads cool.

If you had shorter 12' long TIG torch leads, (rather than the longer 25' versions,) that would help increase the flow and cooling as well. I would advise at least measuring the flow, so you know what you've actually got.

Did they spec the maximum inlet temperature at 1 quart/min?
That would allow one to measure radiator effectiveness.

I have not seen that specification listed anywhere before. It might be worth a call to CK Worldwide, though, they do pick up their phone. If you get an answer, let us know what it is.
http://www.ckworldwide.com/technical_specs.pdf

I stuck one together a few years ago for the nice little Flex Lok 230 amp torch I'd gotten used to using in the local CC welding classes. It's got those great superflex hoses/cables, makes the one that came with my 200 DX seem like wrestling with a firehose by comparison (but I do like that handle switch). They're only 12.5 feet long but I couldn't move enough water by using some of the cheap pumps I tried. I found a nice one of those carbonator pumps on Craigslist for $30 (just motor/pump, no tank). Big and heavy but nicely built to the point that it looks like it will run forever in my garage. It looks like the typical asking prices have crept up a bit so it may take a bit of patience or luck to come across a great deal.

Gary

I have looked at the flojet's - but they are a bit expensive. If you drop $150 on the pump, and then buy other materials, and labor, it might make more sense to drop $450 on a Everlast cooler with a warranty.... :-) (just joking).

Which particular pump did you select?

Cheers,

Mike

If you are not going with an Everlast cooler. The Procon pumps are nice. Brass, expensive, but nice. Pump alone is about 35% of the retail of our cooler.