So has anyone made a alternator welder? Because I have a alternator laying around and several lawn mowers I could put it on so It would be cool.
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So has anyone made a alternator welder? Because I have a alternator laying around and several lawn mowers I could put it on so It would be cool.
Also does anyone have any knowledge of anything about what has to be done or really anything about them.
Here ya go... http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...4872#post14872
Ok but how do you get rid of the voltage regulator cause i know that that is like the first step to making one
Wow, I never seen that post until now. That is rather impressive and I never thought about even trying it as a temp solution before getting my TIG. Makes me almost want to try it one day just to do it.
Probably best to ask the builder in the other thread... he's the man with experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwills
Okay If it's a AC Delco "Remmy" like you believe..It's probably wired 3 phase. A couple pics would be great. What you will want to do: take your impact wrench (doesn't take much, you can hold the pulley with a thick glove on, it should pop right up) and get that pulley off. next take permanent marker and make lines parallel with the shaft all the way down the case to match later on when putting it back together, very important because it will go back together 3 different ways. now remove the 3 inverted torx head bolts (I just used a nut driver metric i think). Now gently tap the half of the case that's closest to the output shaft. It may be stiff, It's a press fit bearing on both ends. (Couple weeks ago my 1500 silverado's alt went out and I took it apart.) Very gingerly tap the bearing. You will be tapping it out toward where the pulley was,tap from the opposite end using a big socket (that is basically the same size as the bearing). Drive that bearing out, roughly 3/8ths-1/2". then it should just a matter of jiggling it the rest of the way out. Keep a close eye to the brushes and brush springs. Mine were stuck in by road rash, lol, I had no problems here ;) FYI, I wrecked my bearing driving it out. But I was really beating the dummkopf out of it......be careful.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwills
You've got 'er apart now. To get to the rectifier and voltage regulator you must either un-solder the three coil leads or like most of them, are welded..so I don't have any advice for the welds other than pray. Those leads are short as it is if you cut them off, :O Hope this gets you started :)
Actually, you don't need to do any of that. Just start with an alternator that is externally regulated to begin with. Pretty much all Chrysler alts up until late 90s at least. I'm using a 90A from a Dodge Caravan. There are some 130A Ford alternators that most people use but I'm not sure what kinda car or truck they originally came from. Chevy 2 wire alternators are externally regulated, but not enough amps for the application. Almost any alt with 2 field wire connectors are externally regulated. The stock diodes will hold up fine as long as the fan on the front of the alt is kept in tact. The alt I'm using actually has a full-wave(6-diode) 3-phase rectifier although I know a lot of alts only have a half-wave(3 diode) 3-phase rectifier inside which would put more heat into the individual diodes. I've welded with mine on full power for good 5 minute runs back to back to back without problems. The case of the alt got very hot but the arc never got weak nor did any parts fail. I actually had more problems with my homemade torch getting too hot. Any more questions just lemme know. It's just a very simple setup, I built it all in one afternoon.
Geeze,
I never thought I would learn so much about alternator welders posted on a blog administered by a company that sells welders.
I can see it now. A remake of the Beverly Hillbillys with Jed welding his back bumper onto his truck while rolling down Sunset Blvd. "Take it easy on them bumps Jethro".
Sorry, my sense of humor got the best of me.
Best Regards!
Well I dont know if this one is internal or external regulated, so heres some pictures, Im guessing its internal. Its pretty old. I dont even know how many amps it is or anything.
Attachment 3281Attachment 3280
I don't think any of the AC Delco's put a amperage stamp on it. Just a guess, 60 or 70 amps. I have a 119 amp ac delco remy on my "roach" It has a much bigger power + lead. I just searched my self mad trying to find any specs on it..nothing really. except they are selling a "guaranteed fit" alt that is 60 amp. I believe your alt should be relatively close to that. Looks really close to mine. Kinda does look like an internal unit..
My legendary "roach" dual 3' footer CB's hooked to a Cobra 40CH, John Deere mud flaps, trailer tow package. The works ;)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m...0/100_0618.JPG
I dont think so either. My guess is its about a 50 amp or so. But thats still enough to burn 3/32 6011. Be good just for field quick repairs and suck. So the first step is seeing if it still works though. So i built a stand for it, its hooked to a moter. So which wire powers the field then? And does anyone know what the other one does.
It should be external. You see the two wires coming out of that plug on the side. Those wires should go strait to the brushes to control the field. That looks like an older GM unit. I've no idea how many amps they are but I'm thinking they're not very much. I could be wrong though as I'm not up on GM alts. But yes, your battery charger or 12v supply(will need to put out 10 or so amps to get full power from the alt) would hook to the wires on the side, I used an old dash-light dimmer switch(it's a rheostat not a potentiometer) to handle the current from the charger, and vary the input voltage so I can vary the output current. Your TIG torch would hook to the case of the alternator(The Negative) and your work clamp would hook to the positive post on the back of the alternator where that heavy blue wire is now. Then you just need a beefy engine to keep it spinning under load. Good luck!
Good question. I'm not sure, because mine is one wire so it obvious. They both may be power wires. Or one may be for 6volt and the other may be for 12. When I was researching it, I found a lot of those trucks had alts that were for both 6v and 12v. IDK how close you are to any town...but you could try a generator alternator repair shop. Or a garage that's been around more than a week. The repair shop should be able to tell you. If not, PM me everything you know about it and I can call my guy up here. or i can PM you their number whatever works sweet for ya.
Sorry Brad simultaneous-post. Very good information.
Brad mentioned: "Then you just need a beefy engine to keep it spinning under load." Remember there's 746 watts per 1 horsepower at 100% efficiency. So if it's 60amps times 13.8 volts = 828 watts assuming the alt is 75% efficient multiply 828 by 1.25 (25% waste) and that would give you 1035 watts. So it will take a bare minimum of a 1.4 HP electric to spin it. For gas rule of thumb is "double the gas to equal electric" Needing a 2.8 HP gas. then you engine ins't 100% efficient either, say 60% (40 waste). 2.8 X 1.40 = 3.92 HP..on and on.....belts eat up power... So 5-8 HP should get you started.
Sorry, as if all of us don't get enough math at school and jobs ;)
Well i have been doing a little research. I think that it is a delco remmy 10Si. And the link below shows some sort of wiring way. I read that the delco remmy was introduced in the 70s and it came out of a 70s international and it was also the first internal regulated.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=delco...w=1280&bih=709
If that is only around 60 amps you could probably get away with a 1HP electric provided it was a 220v motor. I'm running my 90Amp from a 1.5HP 220v motor and it barely slows down at full power. With an electric motor it becomes less about the HP it makes and more about the torque it generates. I'm not sure exactly what kind of alternator that is but it looks just like any old style GM 2 wire alternator and they are externally regulated. Just hook 12 volts across the 2 side terminals and spin the thing and see what kind of voltage you get from between the positive post and the case of the alt. Beware if it is externally regulated, the OCV will be WAY higher than 12v. At full power I'm getting close to 100v OCV out of mine.
Heres another link I found of what is what
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=delco...w=1280&bih=709
I would be running mine off of about a 11 hp gas motor prolly. Or a 18hp but most likely the 11. And ok so your saying to get rid of the volage regulator on the thing just put the 2 together instead of hook the right one to the alternator positive then the left one to the 12 volt charge. And really. 100 v thats a lot. wonder if theres a way to get the volts down some cause thats a lot and prolly wouldnt weld the greatest would it.
Ok i have found a really good sorce about this alternator. Says a lot about the alternater itsself to make it work
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#how_to_wire
OCV (open current voltage)Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwills
If you look at most welders excluding the new Miller's. they have an OCV of 40-100v sometimes. but at full amp draw it's like 25-36v +/-. It should pull down your volt once you hit the rods. I agreed totally with Brad on gas vs electric. Electric's have pure torque. Gas bogs down.
O ok that makes since, And that it about right voltage. Everywhere I read it is a internal voltage regulated so i guess i might be trying to take it apart sometime. First see if it works though. And yeah but im gonna put it on a gas motor so I can drive my welder where i need it and i have a portible one then. So im going with the mounting on a lawn mower.
What about making one out of a generator. I have an old one laying around with a bad motor. Would there be a way to convert it or would it not even work
No idea about the generator. But really before you go tearing it apart, take a battery charger and hook the positive and the ground to the 2 terminals inside the plug on the side of the alternator, spin it up with your motor and measure the voltage between the case and the terminal on the back. Report back with that voltage, that should tell us how it's regulated, some internally regulated ones if the fields are fed from an external source like you do when you weld with one then they will still work as there is no feedback current to the regulator.
That one looks like an internal regulator. If memory serves, the way to tell on the old GMs is to look at the orientation of the plug terminals. If they are parallel with the shaft, it's external, if they are perpendicular, it's internal.
Oh a power generator, like 120vAC gas powered genset. I totally thought you were talking a "generator" like wind turbines have or really old tractors (starter/generator). What wattage does your genset have? you could step down the voltage with a transformer..120v is way to high, and i dont think it will draw down as much like the alt would.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwills
This is old technology, first ran into it in 1974 in BowIsland Alberta, a fellow there was adding an extra alternator to the local farm trucks. to make it work you need v belt pulleys on the alternators and a throttle control on the truck, a switch that stops the current from charging the battery and a volt meter to set your. voltage. Trying to use a serpintine belt on todays pickups would be a nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwills
If you are thinking of converting a lawnmower over to this, you better have at least 13 to 15 hp to make it work.
Interesting project but not that easy.
Yeah I need to do that. I got to get my volt meter to my dads and try it. Gonna be like a week before i can do anything but im sure its internal regulated. And the generator was just an idea. thought it might hold up a bit better but just an idea, And i dont have a clue the wattage. And ya got that right. Not easy at all
That's a good bit of overkill on the gas engine's HP. For my 90A alternator I could spin it at full power with a 9HP Honda engine. The electric motor I'm using now is only 1.5HP and just barely slows down when striking an arc at full power. The main reason I switched over to using my air compressor motor instead of the gas engine is that it is much much quieter and I didn't need the portability, I only built my setup so I could learn to TIG weld before I dropped the money on a real welder. As far as building this thing though, you guys are making it WAY more complicated than it really is. I'm pretty sure this guy isn't mounting this to a car or truck, he's planning on running it with a dedicated gas engine so none of that switching circuitry is needed. I draw up a diagram in paint to show how to wire the thing. It really is as simple as I'm saying it is.
Bobwills,
The picture of your alternator seems to indicate that's it's internally regulated. If so, you do'nt need to remove the regulator. Just bypass it.
See that little D shaped hole in the back of the casing just to the left of that 2 wire connector ? Have a look inside that hole, with a light if need be. You should see a small metal spade lug, just like the ones that your above-mentioned connector plugs into.
Those three lugs are part and parcel of the regulator and the one behind the D shaped hole is to test the alternator output. If you short it to ground, (the alternator case) with a screwdriver, you effectively bypass the regulator and maximum output is produced.
The alternator output would then be varied by the voltage applied to one of the other two lugs under the connector.
Cheers,
rivets
The diagram posted by Blasphemy000 above is correct.
So if you have an internal regulator and you disable/bypass it as above, and you hook everything up as per the diagram, it should work fine.
Yeah. The motor im gonna put it on is a 11 hp. My idea is just make it to where I can drive the mower over where i need to weld. Engage the altornator. Be able to weld something and go on. And yeah im not gonna do anything more than i have to. The only hard hard part on it is if its internally regulated then Taking it apart and undoing the regulator.
Ok rivets your just saying to ground out whats behind the hole and it will bipass it. Would you have to keep the screwdriver in there. Im confused?
Wiring Diagram:
Attachment 3286
Before you go ripping into that thing, I would seriously wire it up like the above picture and check the output voltage. If it is internally regulated, since it has two field terminals it might require external voltage feedback for the regulator to work. If it is wired up as the picture above there is no feedback voltage going to the regulator. If it has an internal feedback you shouldn't get that much voltage from the output terminal to the case when it is wired like the picture above. With mine wired as above and 12v going into the field, I'm getting around 100v between the output terminal and the case. That will be a very quick and easy way to tell if you're going to need to defeat the regulator or not. Another thing I would do is find out for sure how much amperage that thing puts out before you go putting a lot of work into it. If need be just go to the junk yard and pick up a 90A Chrysler alternator from a mid 90s Caravan with the 3.0L engine(that's what mine is from) or figure out what kind of Ford vehicle their 130A externally regulated alternator came from then you'd really have some power to play with.
yeah im definatly gonna hook it up first. See what she will do. If i had to guess from what it was out it will be about a 50 amp. Because it was out of a 70s truck. So it didnt have a whole lot of power consumption. And o i see what you mean. Without it hooked to a battery where the positive goes it might not activate the regulater. And I would really like to do that. Be really nice having that extra power.
Hi Bobwills,Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwills
The "screwdriver in the hole" is a quick and dirty way to bypass the regulator and determine if the alternator is producing full output.
To permanently disable the regulator, I would slightly enlarge the D hole so as to make it round, then I would tap it.
Screw in a bolt so that the bolt tip contacts that lug on the regulator and you're done.
Also, put a nut on the bolt and tighten it against the alternator case to lock everything in place.
Cheers,
rivets
Yeah that might work pretty good. Wonder if it would be easyier to take it apart and unhook it though cause that seems a lot more complicated
A couple questions:
>>To permanently disable the regulator, I would slightly enlarge the D hole so as to make it round
When you enlarge this hole, presumably with a drill, do you run the risk of metal turnings from the drilling process getting into the regulator and shorting things out?
Does the end-product welder require a cooling fan? Blasphemy, did you incorporate a cooling mechanism in your welder?
My alternator had a big fan on the front of it to start with, the little pressed metal one behind the pully, but its outside of the case.
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pub...i1NTkUUFSFpfdQ
That's not my alternator, but the fan is the same. Just for reference though my motor spins the alternator the opposite way it would normally spin on a car so instead of it sucking the air trough the alternator and blowing it out the front its sucking it in the front and blowing through the alternator. None of this was on purpose though as I didn't even realize it was spinning backwards till like a week after I built it. Most car alternators don't care which way they spin since they generate 3-phase AC internally anyways. As for the cooling, I'm really not sure which way works better as I never had any problems with it overheating. Like I said, at full power the case gets very hot to the touch but it's never gotten hot enough for the current to drop off so I don't think I'm over working the diodes inside. After I'm done welding with it I cut the power to the field and let it spin for a few minutes to cool down. It just seemed like a good thing to do.
Bobwills,
My last post above has a significant OOPS, so you can't hook up as per Blasphemy's schematic, because I forgot about the diode trio.
Unfortunately, you'll have to open up the cases and dive in.
See schematic below. (The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book - Edgar J. Beyn - Spa Creek Inc.)
Remove the diode trio, and while you're at it solder a lead to the test lug and route it outside the case where you can easily ground it. Then you don't need a threaded hole.
Also, the + charger lead goes to lug #1 and the - charger lead goes to the casing and NOT to lug #2.
You can also remove the regulator, but then you'll have to connect leads to the slip rings and bring them outside the case.
There is an even neater way.
If you keep the diode trio, and hook up the rheostat between the test lug and the case, then you need the battery charger (or a battery for that matter) for only 1 or 2 seconds after start up.
Cheers,
rivets
[QUOTE=DaveO;15396]A couple questions:
>>To permanently disable the regulator, I would slightly enlarge the D hole so as to make it round
When you enlarge this hole, presumably with a drill, do you run the risk of metal turnings from the drilling process getting into the regulator and shorting things out?
QUOTE]
DaveO,
It could be an issue, but my thinking was to use a drill bit in a threading tap chuck and enlarging the hole by hand and blasting with compressed air.
No longer relevant since the cases have to be opened. Easier and neater to route grounding wire outside the case - see post above.
Cheers,
rivets
Im still a bit confused. So whats a diode trio and what does it do that you would have to remove it sometimes. And ok so your saying to open it up and just put a wire grounding out the regulator. Is that really all you all are saying to do. Sorry i dont understand too much. Not the best on some of these types of things. But hey ya gotta learn somehow.