Stick Electrode Guide

Here is a link for the Lincoln Stick Electrode Guide. I have had a copy for years, and I picked up another one from my LWS a month back. I realize that most people know what temp to run their favorite rods, but it seems I read on the other boards where newbies are attempting to run a 1/8 rod at 90amps. They give them away at your LWS, but here is the pdf for download. When I was in welding school at Lincoln we took a test on this book! This is a good free resource for newbies and will get you in the ballpark.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C2410.pdf

That looks like a very well-written resource- I can see why you like it. I seem to recall having to "translate" Lincoln's electrode naming scheme (Jetweld, Fleetweld, etc) into their AWS Exxxx designations, but in this book they show them both together.

Where did you attend the Lincoln school- was it in Cleveland? We lived outside Cleveland when I was a kid- the billboard on the Lincoln building is still a welder with real sparks flying from it, pretty impressive at night.

Yes, Cleveland in 1996, I had a full scholarship paid by Lincoln and Miller. The local American Welding Society paid for my plane ticket, room, and gave me some cash for eating. I would like to go back and take some of the week long classes; I was too young to appreciate what was given to me. I was 19 and got home sick!

Sean,
That is very good information! Thank you for sharing. Message to all: If you right click that link and click "save" or "save as" or "save link as" it will download this PDF data packet. It is McAfee secure from viruses and other malicious software's.

More good info for at a glance electrode checking and number breakdown:http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson3_10.htm

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Originally Posted by I_Love_Plasma

Welding Rod Numbers Decoded

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Can I ask, what's the source of your info? Seems to be missing a discussion of 0 in the last position, for instance, and the electrode polarities and flux types conflict with information here...

http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson3_10.htm

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Originally Posted by DaveO

Can I ask, what's the source of your info? Seems to be missing a discussion of 0 in the last position, for instance, and the electrode polarities and flux types conflict with information here...

http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson3_10.htm

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Here it is. http://www.jeep-l.net/info_jeep/weld_rod.htm Wow they do conflict. Thanks for the info. Guess I'm gonna put my faith in ESAB being correct. I think I will take down the other just to make sure no one gets the wrong information.

0 position? Never heard of it... 1 flat, 2 horizontal, 3 vertical, 4 overhead...What other basic positions are there? Of course there are 5, and 6 positions(pipe), but 4 covers that.
Edit:The actual rod number is different from position it refers to.
1-All
2-flat/horizontal
3 (rare if you find any let me know), most positions, but vertical down travel if in 3G position.

I think "0 in the last position" means Exxx0 to designate the rod.

Correct, I mean "last position" as the last column in the rod number. ILP, I wasn't trying to nit-pick or snipe, I'd just hate to have somebody rely on a faulty chart and get a polarity wrong.

Also important to note that just as the first 2 digits (in a 4-digit rod) and the first 3 digits (in a 5-digit rod) have a specific meaning, the last 2 digits are sometimes meant to be considered together, such as Exx10 or Exx20. That ESAB chart shows them.

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Originally Posted by DaveO

ILP, I wasn't trying to nit-pick or snipe, I'd just hate to have somebody rely on a faulty chart and get a polarity wrong.

Also important to note that just as the first 2 digits (in a 4-digit rod) and the first 3 digits (in a 5-digit rod) have a specific meaning, the last 2 digits are sometimes meant to be considered together, such as Exx10 or Exx20. That ESAB chart shows them.

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Yes I know :) I "googled" "electrode numbers decoded" that was the first thing that popped up. I'm very glad you caught it right away. Thank you.

All but the least common rods can be considered DC+. Very few reasons to weld otherwise.

Now, I would disagree with the statement made by Dave.

You can go to reference manual after reference manual, and will find similar breakdowns as originally listed.

The first TWO/(possibly 3) numbers only refer to Tensile strength. The last TWO numbers do mean something individually. The 3rd (4th with a 3 digit tensile strength number) number always refers to position. The last number always refers to rod properties.

Now, you can but the last two together, and they will typically have the same characteristic throughout the same tensile strength range. i.e. The 7018 will have similar weld characteristics as an 8018, 0r a 10018. Though there are still a few differences,
Putting the last two numbers together such as XX18 can refer to general arc, flux and position characteristics collectively so that it is understood that the rods would require similar technique. But no where should it be inferred that the two numbers together are bound to mean something collectively, different from what they stand for individually.

Keep in mind, the flux components can and do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Just because they say Cellulose/Sodium, doesn't mean another manufacturer won't slip something else in or omit something entirely. Even Lincoln does it within their own welding rods. A regular 7018, will have a different makeup than a 7018-MR4. And again, the Lincoln Excalibur series is in their on league.

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Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265

Here is a link for the Lincoln Stick Electrode Guide. I have had a copy for years, and I picked up another one from my LWS a month back. I realize that most people know what temp to run their favorite rods, but it seems I read on the other boards where newbies are attempting to run a 1/8 rod at 90amps. They give them away at your LWS, but here is the pdf for download. When I was in welding school at Lincoln we took a test on this book! This is a good free resource for newbies and will get you in the ballpark.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C2410.pdf

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Good read for the newbies, well yes and no, good if you have a 300 amp machine in the back of your pickup, not so good if you have 200 amps or less on your little welder. The book is written for people who burn 5/32 rods and up, and require high deposit rates, not exactly what hobbyists do.
It has good info and rod movments and stacking beads on multiple passes etc.

On a scale of 0 to 10 , 0 being useless and 10 being useful, I give it a 5+ for newbie small welder reading , it's a 10 if you have a 300 amp welder.

To keep it simple for the newbie small amp welder, there are only 6 rods you need to know,6010, 6011, 6013,(the 60 series) and 7014,7018,7024 (the 70 series as I call them). Using 1/8 rods their midrange or starting amperage is as follows: 6010,6011,6013 = 100 amps. 7014,7018 =130 amps 7024 =160 amps

For 3/32 rods 6010 = 50, 6011 = 60, 6013 = 70, 7014 =80, 7018 = 90, 7024 = 0 cause nobody makes such a small hard facing rod.

Rod height above base metal, for the 60 series rods it can vary from 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch, On the 70 series it is 1/8 and less to a drag on the base metal.

Amperage can vary from the midrange+ starting point by +\- 10 to 15 amps, all depends on your welder readout being accurate, length of welding cables, metal type and how clean the metal is.

I have nothing against the Lincoln manual, except it is not geared towards the little guy with a small welder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265

Here is a link for the Lincoln Stick Electrode Guide. I have had a copy for years, and I picked up another one from my LWS a month back. I realize that most people know what temp to run their favorite rods, but it seems I read on the other boards where newbies are attempting to run a 1/8 rod at 90amps. They give them away at your LWS, but here is the pdf for download. When I was in welding school at Lincoln we took a test on this book! This is a good free resource for newbies and will get you in the ballpark.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C2410.pdf

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Good read for the newbies, well yes and no, good if you have a 300 amp machine in the back of your pickup, not so good if you have 200 amps or less on your little welder. The book is written for people who burn 5/32 rods and up, and require high deposit rates, not exactly what hobbyists do.
It has good info and rod movments and stacking beads on multiple passes etc.

On a scale of 0 to 10 , 0 being useless and 10 being useful, I give it a 5+ for newbie small welder reading , it's a 10 if you have a 300 amp welder.

To keep it simple for the newbie small amp welder, there are only 6 rods you need to know,6010, 6011, 6013,(the 60 series) and 7014,7018,7024 (the 70 series as I call them). Using 1/8 rods their midrange or starting amperage is as follows: 6010,6011,6013 = 100 amps. 7014,7018 =130 amps 7024 =160 amps

For 3/32 rods 6010 = 50, 6011 = 60, 6013 = 70, 7014 =80, 7018 = 90, 7024 = 0 cause nobody makes such a small hard facing rod.

Rod height above base metal, for the 60 series rods it can vary from 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch, On the 70 series it is 1/8 and less to a drag on the base metal.

Amperage can vary from the midrange+ starting point by +\- 10 to 15 amps, all depends on your welder readout being accurate, length of welding cables, metal type and how clean the metal is.

I have nothing against the Lincoln manual, except it is not geared towards the little guy with a small welder.

Good point Geezer.

I have questions relating to stick welding electrodes:

1> What is your favorite online supplier of rods?

2> 7018's take on moisture fast, if I pack my rods into a container filled with rice, could this be a poor man's way of slowing this down? (Rice is very absorbing. We put it in salt shakers all the time and it works good.)

3> Moisture is the main thing that degrades electrodes, hence the need for re-baking, correct?

4> What is your favorite local supplier?

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Originally Posted by I_Love_Plasma

Good point Geezer.

I have questions relating to stick welding electrodes:

1> What is your favorite online supplier of rods?

2> 7018's take on moisture fast, if I pack my rods into a container filled with rice, could this be a poor man's way of slowing this down? (Rice is very absorbing. We put it in salt shakers all the time and it works good.)

3> Moisture is the main thing that degrades electrodes, hence the need for re-baking, correct?

4> What is your favorite local supplier?

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I don't have a favorite supplier, I give them all a chance to stick it to/in me,I keep all my rods in containers and only cook up the 7014 and 7018 ones on the fry pan or the overpriced and utterly expensive variable heat rod heater I bought . I only have about 100 - 120 lbs of different rods on hand at any one time, so storage is not a problem.

you are right mositure is the killer on 70 series rods, keep the containers closed and preheat before use if possible.

I know it has been asked before on this forum, although at this time I am unable to find the thread with the info in it. What is a good temperature to bake them at? Also, how hot is too hot? Is 175-180F* too hot?

Well that is widly different kinda on preference. I use a little toaster oven that i keep in the garage just for it. I just crank her on about 300. In about 15 to 30 minutes they are good. And then turn her down to like 150 and keeps them good and dry untill you are done welding. But too hot is more than a oven can do. Ive read some people use like 500 degrees. I would keep her about 300 or so though. And anything over 112 degrees will work cause thats when the water will start to evaporate out of them but it would take a while at that so 150-300 i would say

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Originally Posted by performance

{snip}You can go to reference manual after reference manual, and will find similar breakdowns as originally listed. {snip} Putting the last two numbers together such as XX18 can refer to general arc, flux and position characteristics collectively so that it is understood that the rods would require similar technique. But no where should it be inferred that the two numbers together are bound to mean something collectively, different from what they stand for individually.

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I tried to locate the source that gave the visual representation of the "last two together" concept, and I'm frustrated because I can't locate it right now. I'm also trying to find this information from a credible source, and finding disparities between the Miller and ESAB sites- I thought these guys would have had it nailed down, by this point.

If you consider Exx10 and Exx20 electrodes, the 1 in xx10 indicates all positions, the 2 in xx20 indicates flat/horizontal, and the 0 in the 4th column indicates... what? With information from the Lincoln site (again trying to find that credible source http://www.lincolnelectric.ca/knowle...sification.asp ) the Exx10 rod has a high cellulose coating and welds at DC+. The Exx20 has a high iron oxide coating, and welds AC, DC+, or DC-. The 0 in the fourth column is identical, yet coatings and polarities are dramatically different- I think this type of example is the explanation for the "sometimes consider the last two together" idea.

Unfortunately AWS and ASME want $50 for a copy of AWS 5.1, a little out of my budget just now- I'll see if I can find that credible source.

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Originally Posted by bobwills

Well that is widly different kinda on preference. I use a little toaster oven that i keep in the garage just for it. I just crank her on about 300. In about 15 to 30 minutes they are good. And then turn her down to like 150 and keeps them good and dry untill you are done welding. But too hot is more than a oven can do. Ive read some people use like 500 degrees. I would keep her about 300 or so though. And anything over 112 degrees will work cause thats when the water will start to evaporate out of them but it would take a while at that so 150-300 i would say

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Ah, okay. our wood burner has a storage panel in the front that stays dry and is between 150-200F* just about year round. So that would be good spot for them! Think I'll pop some in there now for the weekend. Thank you.

I found a guide for electrode storage and reconditioning at the Hobart site:
http://www.hobartbrothers.com/downlo...lines/487.html

It looks a lot like this photo:
Attachment 3338

Unless you can get free shipping it would be hard to get a good price online for welding rods. I have an Amazon Prime membership and I get free 2 day shipping, but I have found better deals at the LWS. I found rods at the LWS for half of what the chain tool and farm stores sell their rods. I can't remember the name, but I have several boxes of rods it's a blue plastic box that I picked up at Nexair for $7.00 for a 5lb box and $14.00 for a $10.00 box. I just picked up a 10lb box of 7014 Uweld 3/32 rods for $14.00 and change. I find better deals on rods and wire when I go to an actual welding store. I have had bad luck with some of the rods I picked up from Tractor Supply, but I think it had more to do with how long they were sitting on the shelf. I have had better luck with LWS rods most likely because they are constantly selling them. I have also had good luck with Forney 7014 and 7018ac rods from the local hardware stores.

Dave,
Thank you, that's pretty sizzlin warm for some of those 70 low hydrogen rods! 800F* sheesh.

Sean,
Thank you for that info. I just bought rods from my local Ace Hardware at 3 bucks a pound :'( $30 for 10LB. So 14 dollars sounds REALLY good to me. I was thinking about buying some more from my local Thiesens store, buy now that you mention that it is cheaper to buy from the LWS....I'm going to call my Praxair. I will post my findings with an "edit" to this post... Can't remember what it cost per pound at T.S.Co. but it was substantially more than Ace.

I'm crushed, my prices are double and then some over you prices. Thiesen's Farm and Auto is the best price at about $25/10LB. Praxair is $41/10LB. LWS is a hair cheaper than Praxair. Good grief, do you step on the guy's foot until he gives you half off? I mean that's dirt cheap.

Thanks,
ILP

I got ripped of at tractor supply on them a few weeks ago. for 7018ac 1/8 5lbs it was like almost $20! It was crazy. Used to be about $12 for 5lbs of others ive bought. Are 7018 ac more expensive?

In this thread I'm seeing references to "7018 ac"... but according to the charts I've seen, _any_ 7018 should work in an AC welder. Is there a 7018 electrode specifically designed to work better with an AC machine?

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Originally Posted by DaveO

In this thread I'm seeing references to "7018 ac"... but according to the charts I've seen, _any_ 7018 should work in an AC welder. Is there a 7018 electrode specifically designed to work better with an AC machine?

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Yes there is. Forney makes a special 7018AC rod for the use on AC only :) There may be other brands too, but I know 100% that Forney make them.

Hobart makes them too. And yeah a regular ol 7018 will work on either. Ive used regular ones alot on ac but the ones made for ac run so much better. They got much less spatter and just run smoother. Anyone ever run the 7018ac rods on dc though. I had to the other day. They run fine just kinda seem to have a funny smell while your burning them it seems

I run the 7018ac on my power arc 200 and 140st. I like how they run, and they do not seem to be as sensitive to moisture as 7018. I got on a project back in the summer and my 7018 were old and I struggled getting the rods to run, I probably stuck 5lbs of rods. I switched to 7018ac and they ran like a champ. I'm not sure but I wondered if the 7018ac run better on inverter power.

Yeah they dont run bad on dc. But do you notice a different smell. And they could since its got that extra attitive in it not as much of the other stuff that makes them so sincitive to mostier. But i have no clue. And i havnt tried an inverter yet. Always used transformer but got a inverter coming. I was using the 7018ac on a engine driven miller 140. It worked real nice I must say.

Isn't the power arc 200 an inverter?

The Power Arc is inverter based. The 7018ac rods have an arc stabilizer compound added just like 6011s so its no surprise they run good on dc. I dont know if that relates to them running better when moist or if they were already moisture resistant like some of the more expensive rods are. I have some 3/32 forney 7018ac rods that have been sitting out in the open and they run great on both my inverter welder and my transformer based welder on dc. They run like crap on ac though. If i burn half the rod and smell it the rod, I can smell the moisture evaporating off of them.

Every everlast welder is inverter based.