The best rod for the newby to learn on

Assuming you just got a PA 200 (not A/C buzzbox) and you don't know squat about welding, you are wondering what rod, what dia etc, to get. What amps do I set the welder at , do I wiggle the rod or drag it, all new and scary stuff for a newby.

IMO, the 6010 is the way to go, for the following reasons: First buy 3 box's of rods 3/32, 1/8, 5/32. That covers just about anything a newby will ever do,
The starting amp settings are very easy to remember 50, 100, 150 for the three different sizes, the variation in amps from those setting are 10 ,20 & 30 amps +/- for each of the different sizes , easy to remember. The 6010 is all position and deep penetration rod keep a tight arc and it welds nicely, if you are shakey that doen't matter the rod is made for a lttle motion from side to side.

That's the way I see it for the newby

PS the 6011 rod is an attempt to make a dual purpose rod AC/DC and it has a tighter adjustment range on the amps than a 6010 and a higher start rate on the 3/32, I doubt if you can find Hobart 6010 anymore, I haven't seen it on the shelf locally everything is 6011 so you may have to use other brands

Here is a calculator to help out a little:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/st...calculator.php

Thurmond

A computor calculator is nice but I seldom have one handy in the shop, so I have developed memory short cuts like I just described

Back when I was a kid, I learned on 6013. Then a guy that worked for my dad introduced us to 7018. for me it was like black and white vs color. but then again we didnt exactly store things the best back then. Haven't mused anything else since for stick, except a few special purpose rods. Still I think that a newb would have an easy time with 7018.

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Originally Posted by geezer

I doubt if you can find Hobart 6010 anymore

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Tis true. I tried to special order some from Tractor Supply. They called their Hobart supplier and were told that it was no longer available. I bought 5/32" 6011, 1/8" 6013, and 1/8" 7014 to start playing with.

Ian

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Originally Posted by Haywire

Tis true. I tried to special order some from Tractor Supply. They called their Hobart supplier and were told that it was no longer available. I bought 5/32" 6011, 1/8" 6013, and 1/8" 7014 to start playing with.

Ian

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Another reason I recomend 6010 is of the 3 sizes 3/32, 1/8, 5/32, you can use each size as a rough guide on metal thickness, 1/8 1/4 & 3/8ths for single pass. Of course any size rod can do much more on multipass, but it gives the newby a feel for the rod for the job. Esab makes a good 6010. 6013 is an AC buzz box rod done lots with that rod, but on a DC machine no, there are better choices. Anyway I have my thoughts on the subject, others may have better idea's on a newbies selection of first rods to learn on and remember how they work. Enjoy your new welder Haywire.

I learned with 7014s. I got a cheap inverter stick welder and a big pack of 7014 for Christmas and learned by trial and error. It wasn't until i got my hobart stickwelder that I started using 6011s and 7018s for everything. I think that if someone can figure out a 6010/11, anything else will be easy.

The first day of welding school at lincoln they had us running rows of beads with 6013, and then after we could run a bead we went to 6010.

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Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265

The first day of welding school at lincoln they had us running rows of beads with 6013, and then after we could run a bead we went to 6010.

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The reason I like 6010 is it has a wide range on the amps, you can dial it in wrong and it will still do something,if you are a bit shakey the rod works for that too, but like others have said 7014 is good too, just drag it along and it works. What ever you cut your teeth on is a good rod, then it's just a question of time and burning lots of rod that makes a fellow better.

If you limited that to 6010 I would agree, I find the 6011 a piece of cake. Spent a lot of time using 6010 in a local welding training class, it is a bit hard to get a good welds with, had to test with it, passed, not real pretty weld, but mine was the hardest to break for the eval.

The test was to weld mild steel, 1/4" think by 3" thick, 1/4 to 3/8 weld (height of weld) in a T configuration. When inspector was ready to eval he hammered the metal with a large hammer on the floor until the weld/metal broke. preferred was the metal and not the weld breaking if you wanted to pass, you can tell if the metal failed by looking at it. Passed, not a work of beauty, but passed.

I started on 6011 and find it a very easy rod to weld with, went to 6010 in the class I took, not so easy for me.

An easy rod to weld with, but does absorb moisture quite well, makes for some interesting starting welds.

ole sarge makes a good point when he say's "If you limited that to 6010 I would agree," I should have put my post in a better context, so keeping in mind that most of the welders available to me at that time were reconstructions using war surplus aircraft generators driven by the tractor pulley and or powered by wisconsin V4 motors most likey stolen/temp borrowed off your neigbours swather and we had a lot of pipeline work going on so rods were cheap and available. 6010 was the choice for me.

6010 is not a forgiving rod, for manipulation, arc length, or for starting. I also feel that it is MORE temperamental than other rods out there. For those favoring throwing a child in the water and telling him "sink or swim" then it is probably the rod of choice to learn on. But I sincerely believe, it should not be a primary learning rod. It is usually easily adapted once the basics are learned. But as previously mentioned, 6013 or even 7014 are primary "training" rods for many welding schools. 6010 welds differently on different machines...7018, 6013 and other rods are more easy to run from machine to machine and brand to brand and passing welds are more easy to obtain when a student goes to test for certification. 6010, not so much. My theory is that more people are scared "off" from welding with a 6010 as first choice than any other rod.

Add to that the fact that the 6010 is NOT widely respected outside of the Americas, and many other places in the world will only use 6013, even for root passes, it should tell something about the difficulties encountered with that rod. 6011 IS a more forgiving rod, but I do not hold it with the esteem or respect I have for the 6010. The fact is, even though many are slow to admit it, is that it it does penetrate NEARLY as good, and holds an arc more easily. 6011 is called a "rust rod" because its usually used in portable repair and farm fabrication. IF someone wishes to get a start in the direction of the 6010, and never will need the hard core capabilities of the 6010, then 6011 is a perfectly acceptable substitute.

Based on the title of the thread, my 2 cents.

I agree with Mark on this one, loved the "sink or swim" part, because that is fact. I also agree If he goes with 6010 and masters them, everything else will be cake easy, you guys are right there.

I would recommend get a couple pounds of 6013 and 7018. Start with the 7018 to get the feel down as they weld like butter. Then flip to the 6013, get good there, you will be real close if not there at this point. When all is good, use the 7018 to run over the 6013. After that go get some 6010, it will come a lot easier that way.

If he starts with 6010, we will hear the welder is not working or he might give up.

Again, just my 2 cents. And the electrodes are pretty cheap and he probably knows someone local that will give him a pound to start.

I've got quite the collection of electrodes going, although I think I need more 3/32. I have 3/32" 7018, 5/32" 6011, and 1/8" 6010, 6013, 7014. The vast majority of what I'm practicing on ranges from 1/8" to 1/4" in thickness.

I've made an arrangement with a local welding shop to "borrow" some of their drops. I get a bucket of drops, weld them together and then take them back to swap out for more drops. I figure it's a win/win. I get free scrap to weld on and what they sell as scrap comes back a tiny bit heavier for my efforts. They get the entertainment value of pulling my junk out of the bin and having a few good laughs too. :)

Ian

6010 and 7018 work well for starting out

I started with 6011 and 7018AC on a buzzbox 3 months ago(stick, anyway.) I'd been welding TIG and MIG for about 4 years, but after I figured out how to get a bead started, it was pretty easy with either. the 7018 definitely LOOKS better, but the 6011 just wants to weld, weld, weld. although, I will say, I really don't like lincon's fleetweld180 6011 rod. I started with washington alloy 6011 and to my hands, it welds a whole lot easier.

I've been teaching my son to weld, and it seems that 6013 is what I would recommend to someone who is starting out with stick welding. It's generally readily available at most places, can be ran on AC/DC although ac is preferred, and its inexpensive, and fairly easy to start and manage. After getting use to the rod angle, amp settings, travel speed, etc it is quick to master. Once you can run a rod on 6013 and make it look good and tie together well, graduate to 7018 or 6011.

I struggled with most rods until I tried 7014 and the drag technique. This rod produced decent welds so I used it for nearly everything for years. Eventually, after some skill developed, I started using other rods for specific purposes, ie 7028 jet rods for penetration, 7018 for vertical, various hard surfacing rods and so on.
Someone gave me some leftover 6011 Farmer rod awhile back. I ran a bead or two with it but I really don't know why I would use it instead of 7014 which is higher strength and easier to make a pretty weld with.

So I would recommend 7014 and the drag method to a beginner. Once you get some hours in the drag technique can be dropped in favour of maintaining a tight arc with the rod more upright and possibly adding a weave into the mix, if needed.

Just by curiosity why is 6010 not widely respected outside the U.S?

if i was showing someone the ropes of stick welding which i do at the College.. I would start em out on some 6010 and when they got that down move them on to 6011 then 7014 then 7024 then to 7018 in all positions

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Originally Posted by Wookie

if i was showing someone the ropes of stick welding which i do at the College.. I would start em out on some 6010 and when they got that down move them on to 6011 then 7014 then 7024 then to 7018 in all positions

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That will work as well. Sort of what I recommended. 6010, 6011 or 6013, then 7018.

Would make for a good stick welder for sure.

I gave away the 6013 I had. What I've settled on is 7014 and 6011. I have 5lb each of 3/32, 1/8, and 5/32 in those two flavors. I still have the 1/8 6010 and 3/32 7018, but when they're gone, I won't buy again.

Ian

In high school shop class we were first introduced to 6013, then 6010 and onward. Ahh I still remember the sweet smell after burning my first 6010 rods:D

Smoother welds will be the result if using a 6013 or a 7018 rod. This will boost the new welders confidence IMHO. When someone new to stick welding tries it and gets good looking results quickly, they tend to become enthusiastic and are energized into practicing more. 6010 and 6011 rods are not as smooth as the 13 or 18 but are similar to each other in weld characteristics and are considered "fast freeze" rods. That is why a weld with 6010/11 generally have more ripples and don't look as smooth. Every little motion is transferred as a ripple because the puddle freezes so quickly. This is why they are used on the first pass of an open root weld. The weld puddle freezes quickly and doesn't fall through. They also work well on vertical and overhead welds because of this freezing action. All those ripples and sensitivity to rod manipulation make for ugly welds in the hands of a beginner, which can be a turn off. If I were an instructor, I would whip out the 6013 and 7018 rods and let them go to town. I would also explain why the 6010/11 reacts and looks the way it does when they try them. Each rod has an area where it excels and this should be taught as part of complete instruction. After that just let them get good at what makes them fell the best. Some will like the ease of the smoother rods, and some will like the challenge of making a nice looking 6010/11 welds. Whatever gets them to practice is ok with me.

There is so much slag on 7018 that I always get dripped on when I burn them overhead. Your right about nice looking welds being a confidence booster but with fast freeze rods you get to see the puddle and start to learn to read it.

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Originally Posted by worntorn

I struggled with most rods until I tried 7014 and the drag technique. This rod produced decent welds so I used it for nearly everything for years. Eventually, after some skill developed, I started using other rods for specific purposes, ie 7028 jet rods for penetration, 7018 for vertical, various hard surfacing rods and so on.
Someone gave me some leftover 6011 Farmer rod awhile back. I ran a bead or two with it but I really don't know why I would use it instead of 7014 which is higher strength and easier to make a pretty weld with.

So I would recommend 7014 and the drag method to a beginner. Once you get some hours in the drag technique can be dropped in favour of maintaining a tight arc with the rod more upright and possibly adding a weave into the mix, if needed.

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+1. 7014s are a decent all purpose rod. 5/16" material, about 110A AC, and go.