Understanding that the three different cutting tools are in different price ranges, which one of the three would you put your dollars toward if you were starting from scratch?
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Understanding that the three different cutting tools are in different price ranges, which one of the three would you put your dollars toward if you were starting from scratch?
What kind and shape of material will you be working with the most?
It depends on what type of work you are doing. I have all three well four actually counting a horizontal and vertical bandsaw. I can tell you not to bother with an abrasive cutoff saw I have 14 inch modle and used it twice, It now gathers dust on the shelf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper46
My first choice was a horizontal band saw I have a jet 5x7 but the HF 4x6 would dbe a decent choice they both need some attention to cut realy square but once set up and with a good quaility blade can cut well I have cut slices under 1/16 with mine. It also served me well as a vertical bandsaw once I built a better table for it.
I have used my plasma cutter some but suprisingly not as much as I thought I would. But when I used it it sure did the job and was about the only tool for the job, I would not want to be with out a plasma in my tool kit.
So if you are just ste=arting out and according to what type of work you will do. I play with cars both old and racecars and do some fabrication and repair work like most of us on here I would imagine. My vote is for a horizontal / vertical band saw then a plasma cutter and forget about the cutoff saw. I am also thinking of adding a metal cutting skill saw to my collection. Oh another option according to what type of material you work aith would be a deep throught portable band saw.
Hope this mini rant helps
Ray
Tony, each has it place depending on what you are planning on doing. band saws good for almost any size or shape that will fit into it, cut-off saw if you are talking abrasive wheel type are slow, most do not cut real straight and are dirty ( I have one in the corner) Dry cut chop saws with carbide tipped saw blades cut fast and accurate, with very little cleanup. I just got a Milwaukee and that will be my go to saw (but you need a special blade to cut non-ferrous metal). plasma cutters are good for sheet or none straight cutting, but I would much rather use a saw for rounds, box tubing, angle, channel and such. Not that you can not cut angle and stuff with the plasma, it is just more cleanup for a perfect job. And don't leave out the 4-1/2" grinders with cut off wheels I would be lost without these. So it really depends on the type of jobs you have planned to start with, and you will find yourself expanding your tool collection from there. Scott
Ram48, you mention a metal-cutting skilsaw. Are you talking about an abrasive disc swapped in to your circular saw? I bought a HF chop saw for a particular project, and realized I could have bought a circ saw abrasive for about $4.
Dave I am talking about a Milwaukee or evolution saw that is designed to cut metal like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdKN18KOMY4Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveO
Or an evolution saw which is similar. like this http://www.evolutiononlineshop.com/E...age_Saws~x.cfm
Hope that helps
Ray
That's a really good question - the projects I'm thinking about at the moment all require some sort of tubing, either square or round of about 1 inch to 1-1/2 inch size. Of ocurse, I also have a piece of 3/4 inch plate on the workbecnh that needs rounding (or at least have the corners taken off) before I put it on the metal lathe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugar
Pretty easy to answer that one, Chop saw, then bandsaw then plasma. the chop saw will handle most cuts on angle or channel or tube, the bandsaw is best on solid bar that needs precise cuts for a lathe or mill and the plasma is best for plate cutting. The chop saw is the cheapest then bandsaw and then plasma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper46
eventually you will need all three to have a complete shop.
Then it sounds like a chop saw would serve you best as starters. But a chop saw wont do a thing for you on your plate. For that you will need a plasma or a cutting torch. I have a chop saw and a plasma cutter and mostly work with round and square tube myself, doing roll cage work, building trailers, and ornamental stuff. My chop saw is used 99% of the time for cutting material. A band saw will make a cleaner cut, but is way to slow for my needs. A chop saw will make a straight enough cut if you don't force the blade though the material. A framing square and a MIG welder take care of the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper46
I have the cold cut saw, plasma, vertical bandsaw (2), and sawZall (2).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper46
For basic cutting of new 20' material to build things, cut off saw/ cold cut saw.
I use it 10 times more than the others combined.
For salvage and repair, the plasma and sawZalls get the most use.
For custom, intricate, work, you can't beat a vertical band saw.
The sawZalls will do it, just not as clean or neat.
For speed and very rough cutting, the plasma wins.
Anything that is hand cut with a plasma will require a fair amount of clean up.
If I could only have one tool, it would be the sawZall. It is the most versatile.
If I was only concerned with cutting 20' pieces for building projects, I would choose the cold saw.
I almost bought the Evo saw. But after seeing one grenade due to a design flaw in their blade guard, I quickly scratched them off the list.
I borrowed a friend's DeWalt for a weekend. I made over 120 cuts with it. I did not like the fence and the stamped base.
I bought the 12" Makita from Amazon. It comes with a much better blade than the Evo. It has a cast base and a really nice fence. It has quick adjustment on the clamp; neither Evo nor DeWalt have that. I got tired of cranking that stupid DeWalt crank all day. The Makita quick adjust is a real time saver. If you add the $100 cost of a real blade to the Evo, it is not a great bargain. Their standard blade is no where near as good as the Makita blade.
Also, I saw an Evo saw after the blade guard fell into the blade. The saw was ruined. The design flaw is the way they attach the linkage allows the screw to vibrate loose. The female threads are in material that is too soft and thin for permanent attachment. Eventually, the screw will vibrate loose as it did TWICE to the guy whose saw exploded on him.
I personally do not have the luxury of a chop saw or a vertical band saw. Not yet anyway. I had an abrasive chop saw a few years ago, and it too just collected dust. I make pretty much all of my cuts now with a portable band saw. If I am just chopping down material to a workable size,or reducing a large object to small usable pieces I will use the sawzall. And yes, hand grinders with cut off wheels are not in short supply either. I use the plasma when I need to cut an odd contour that I cannot duplicate practically with a cutting tool. I use a variable speed jigsaw to cut sheet and diamondplate and stuff. Not to hijack the thread, but have any of you guys ever seen or used this "dual saw" I have seen on television? here is a link to it. https://www.newdualsawquadforce.com/...?rtag=dualsaw& I am seriously thinking about buying one of these. What do yall think?
Usually I have access to a plasma cutter, chop saw, 4.5" grinder and sawzall. I use them all and it really just depends on what I am cutting and what will work best.
My portable bandsaw is the thing I use the most. The secret; build yourself [or buy] a table top adapter that makes it into a bench mount bandsaw. It doesn't cut much slower than my dry chop-saw, and makes no mess doing it. No sparks, no burnt computer monitor 30 feet away, it's quiet, it's friendly, it doesn't turn at 10,000rpm. It's small, lightweight and travels well.
The key, once again, is a bench top table saw adapter so you can get those 1/16th inch cuts.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-48-08-...item53e570fa8e
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
portable bandsaws are always on sale at HF, and I think the housings are all but universal....
Air-powered nibblers are great and clean for sheet metal. Far Far superior to similar size shears.
My plasma cutter is on the way for use on body panels and sheet metal and such.
My sawzall does almost as much damage as it does good. Rough cuts are great and quick, not good for much else in fabrication [to me, but I am a vast wasteland of taltentlessness....]
I like my Evo Rage II saw for what it is. I hadn't heard of anyone having any issues with these other than blade life. Mine has worked well for well over 100 cuts (so far) with nary a problem and still going strong! I also have a HF bandsaw that I paid $150 bucks for and have used it alot. It's like most HF stuff though, more of a kit than anything but can get you by. Get a couple of good Amercan made blades and throw the one on the bandsaw in the garbage. Also expect to spend a little time getting the drive wheels turning squarely to each other (co-planar!?) Then they do just fine.
hmmm I may have to look into this bandsaw idea. It would be nice to have a vertical bandsaw to use. A HF bandsaw and table from ebay seems like a cheap way to get one.
Jason
My little old HF saw came with a small vertical table that you screw on so it'll do duty as a vertical or horizontal saw. I bought a small miter type fence at sears that fit the slot on the HF table that works pretty darned good...
I saw that infomercial a few times. I read on another forum that Sears carries it (or a competing version of it). I would buy it at Sears since the warranty would actually be valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenchtamer
I hate to bother you over something as silly as a link, but if you can get me the part number for the HF handheld bandsaw, I'll try to get the part numbers for the tables you said came with it, and I'll post them up with costs and such. I may have been unclear; by portable I meant handheld....
get all 3 if you can afford it. i use the band for precise cuts. the chop for crappy metal and dont got a plasma yet i need one
Probably the band saw due to the accuracy of cuts. Depends on what you are doing though.
Ducksface,
I may have misled you if you were directing the question to me. This is the saw I have:http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...image_2769.jpg
It comes with a small table for vertical use. I purchased while on sale and used a coupon...
Having been a tool guy for more years then I care to admit. I have a 2sawzall's, porta band, a vertical / horizontal band saw, a vertical metal - wood band saw, plasma, air nibbler and electric shears, The type work you do will for the most part dictate what saw (s) to buy and in what order.
The sawzall's are good for many applications, both wood and metal but for precise work it takes some time with it to get good. The porta band is a must have for almost any home or hobby shop Mine is an older one and I would suggest you get the deep cut style it is WAY more versatile. The vertical horiz band saw is what I use most since I got it. I made a larger vertical table and used it both ways a lot until I got the vertical 14 inch machine which is great for scroll and small precise irregular cuts.
The plasma makes quick work of plate steel and body panels I use it but not as often as I thought I would But when I need it there is no substitute, I would like a oxy Acc torch but don't want that liability in my attached shop. I use the crap out of my electric shears to cut sheet aluminum and metal to accurate measurement. and I rarely use the nibblers they work well but I just don't grab them often The same goes for my air powered body saw.
Vertical band saw
cold cut saw
plasma cutter
sawzall
I use my band saw the most.
Yeah,
From my little experience I would say it depends on the type of cut. I had a friend of mine that he always used a hydraulic feed horizonal bandsaw. He loved that thing and was accurate as all get out. Worked for him awhile. I couldnt beleive this guy would wear slippers in his shop. Strangest thing. My luck Ide drop something on my feet. Anyways, Since we are on this topic. Has anybody seen those smaller portabands? I was curious how good they were for cutting. It looks like you dont lose any cutting space on them. Yet they are about half the bulk.
Hey Tony
I been reading some of the posts and I agree with the other posters. What your cutting and the finish required will determine the tool. I believe it was Scooter who stated that cut of saws are slow, dirty and with blade wander. Scooter was bang on. Cut a stack of steel studs (framing) or small light gauge materials, sure it is quick and dirty. Heavier materials you will need patience (a lot!) For me the question gets down to which is the best cutting tool to purchase first. Which tool first? I will give you my favorite answer "It depends". My collection of tools has been built up in two ways. (#1) I have a job and need a specific tool to do it right. I purchase the tool. (#2) I just want the dam thing and have extra cash. I buy it.
#1 was the prime motivator earlier in my career but #2 is gaining!
Currently I still use my torch for most of my cutting but I am looking forward to a plasma cutter. (next tool) When I can build a bigger shop a good horizontal metal saw with self feed and blade cooling is definitely in the picture. Most of the other cutting tools are typically single piece units. With a well designed horizontal metal saw you can put a bundle in, set the cut and go back to other work. To justify that I will be going to a lot of auctions. I could purchase a small cheaper unit and heavy modify it. But with a lower end units, I a fairly certain it will be a lot of work will disappointing results. But then again "it depends" upon opportunity and price.
Anyways I digress. Back to your basic question. My recommendation for a first purchase cutting tool would be an oxy/acetylene torch. A very versatile piece of equipment that you will use. A simple torch set up can cut, weld or heat materials quickly (each action requires a different torch head). Working with a touch is the same as welding. It will require time to accumulated the skill and experience to become proficient with it. In my experience it was well worth the effort. I would follow that (cash willing) with either the band saw or plasma cutting depending on were you are going with your projects or work. A cut off saw only if you find one that is stupidly cheap. ONLY
The dual saw is a piece of junk. I bought one and after trying it, found out the blades did not last long even with the lubricating sticks. Then the motor burned out. I had one heck of a time getting it fixed. I did some research on it on the internet and saw some reviews that said pretty much what I discovered...gee I wish I would have done that first!
I have a PowerPlasma 50 and use it for plate steel, sheet steel and aluminum plate and sheet. For angle iron, tubing and rod I use the band saw. I used to use a chop saw but the sparks and the mess were way too much for me. The band saw is nice, smooth, cleaner and more accurate than the chop saw.
When I need it, the Plasma is hard to not use even with the extra set up. The band saw is what I use most....plus I can slice salami with it. Best salami slicer I've ever seen.
I'd go with the chop saw first. the $65 HF one works just fine. as long as you set the fence square, it cuts to within a degree of square. I believe I'm using these norton wheels currently: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2085_200332085
I'll have to check the # when I'm at work today. I get them 5 for $20 at the LWS. I've found you have to dress the edge a lot with the HF chop saw, it doesn't have enough nuts to force the blade hard enough to expose new grit. I have a hardened lag bolt I tap along the edge while cutting. I've got about 120 cuts on the first blade and I've only gone through about 1/2" of radius this far. also, I built a 28" wide 8' long table that the chop saw sits in the middle of, flush with the top. it makes knocking down stock a LOT easier. I'd like a bit wider table, but space is somewhat limited. it makes 45s on some things difficult.
I'd probably pick up a sawzall next. invaluable tool, cheaper than a band saw. if you're good, you can do compound angles on square tubing that you cant do with the chop saw. I did a shootout with sawzall metal blades. I'd avoid the Irwins, cut fine but the quick-couple hole pulled out. for quick dirty cuts the freud diablo variable pitch blades are nice. the dewalts are OK, the long tapered tip gets it into lots of places, not quite as sharp as the irwin. the milwaukee, lenox, and vermont american blades all cut about the same. the VA blades have a much shorter cross section and the teeth lasted longer, but they're prone to catching and bending. they're also significantly cheaper. a package of 10 VA blades was 12.50 or so at home despot, roughly the same price as a 5- or 6- pack of milwaukee, freud, or dewalt. as always, the HF blades are crap. although, their air body saw blades, oddly enough, are quite sharp. super bendy, but it doesn't seem to snap the teeth off when they bend, so you can just put them back. cut like gangbusters too.
O/A torch is also a must-have. I almost never use it for cutting because I don't cut thick plate for hardly anything, but it's invaluable for loosening bolts.
I've never had a plasma or a band saw, but I've come across situations where I'd like both.
worth mentioning also are air cutoff saws, air reciprocating saws(only really good on awkward spaces in 1/8" or sheetmetal, but can get you out of a bind), and a throatless shear. the real beverly throatless shears are about unstoppable. the HF ones are ok up to 18ga for long cuts or 16ga for small cuts. I've done .100" 6061 with my dads with no problem, though. the rotary ones are worthless. the big straight blade chop shears are ok, but don't plan on cutting a tight radius in anything. I haven't tried it, but I think you can cut 1/8" strapping with them, though.
Edit:
here's a pic of my chop bench. the saw is wired always on, the orange switch is the power. I have some momentary machine switches I plan on upgrading to once I find a suitable relay. I'd like to add an auto-cutoff, too. the pile of weights on the floor can be tied to the handle for auto-downfeed. works ok, but an automated air/hydraulic system with an RPM sensor would give better motor/blade life.
Attachment 2075
new blade (for reference):
Attachment 2076
Used blade (blurrier one) after about 150 cuts thru mostly 1x1x1/8" angle with some 1.5 and 2" angle, 3" strapping, and 1.5x3/16" square tubing. the whole welding cart I made was done on this blade, as well as the sheet steel rack (havent posted yet, but will soon) and a small rack for new skandix parts boxes. pretty good life for $4/blade
Attachment 2074Attachment 2073
Don't see any fire extinguishers..
Ya just might want a few of those around, cutting metal on a wood worktable with particle board backer & all (once it catches, man that stuff does burn fast)
just saying...
the particle board is about a foot and a half from the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASE_MasterTech
the fire bottle is about 25 feet away. I should probably plate over the deck with some 20ga and buy another bottle for the other end of the shop, too. I have a ton of 20ga now, so... why not?
anyone know of a good flame retardant?