My new PowerPlasma is on the way.....Yeah

Just to liven things up around here.....

My new PowerPlasma 70 is on order. I hope to maybe get it set up this weekend. While I wait I'm setting up my air dryer and getting set to pull some 10 gauge wire for a new 220V circuit in my shop.

I've always had a dryer and I live in a pretty dry area but figured adding some copper pipe and a desiccant dryer and an oil free line to my system would be a good idea for the cutter. I can't recommend it yet but I am hoping this unit from Harbor Freight will do the deed, can't beat the price. Now if I can only find my soldering torch.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97686

Alex and the other guys at Everlast were very patient with all my questions (you can see a sample of them scattered here on the forum) I had a really hard time settling on the PP70. My cutting needs run more to the light stuff so I figured the PP50 was the way to go. That and I kinda liked the non-HF start due to my having CNC equipment in the vicinity.....I'll still worry about that until I see there is not a problem, but I also think the HF start is better for cutting expanded metals which is important to me. Once I committed to the bigger HF unit then I had to decide which one....each step gives you more cutting power and all probably exceed my need. I decided I liked the P-80 torch better because it seems to have more flexible nozzle setup (wish it was a more modern torch with swirl technology but I understand that may be coming soon, maybe I will be ready for an upgrade by then)....so HF + P-80 meant either 70 or 80 and well I figured the 80 was just overkill but for the nominal price difference it was a hard decision since we all know more power is always better......:)

Anyway back to putting the shop in order..I'll post some pictures and initial impressions once the cutter arrives.

Darren

Swirl technology is where the air is created in a whirling vortex around the electrode and the cup and tightly forms a focused column of air that delivers the plasma arc in a confined narrow "flame".

If you look at the used consumables on the p80, you will see fine etched swirl marks around the tip of the electrode where the air does swirl quite well. Just because it lacks a swirl ring, does not mean it doesn't have swirl technology. A toilet bowl has swirl technology as well...lol..But it does work in a similar fashion.

Good to Know, I gathered from reading that the nozzles do have some sort of swirl design to the but that most were moving to the ring setup. Not really sure how the ring really works or if it is more gimmick and just another thing that needs replacement....I am eagerly awaiting my Power Plasma 70.

I had hoped to get a tracking number today. I was told it would actually ship on Wednesday, the same day I ordered, which is darn good service. Not sure what the UPS delay is this time of year but being relatively close to Everlast I might see it by Friday or Sat....before I am actually ready for it in the shop. But rest assured I will be cutting up something even if I haven't got everything prepped for "real work"!

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Originally Posted by macdarren

Good to Know, I gathered from reading that the nozzles do have some sort of swirl design to the but that most were moving to the ring setup. Not really sure how the ring really works or if it is more gimmick and just another thing that needs replacement....I am eagerly awaiting my Power Plasma 70.

I had hoped to get a tracking number today. I was told it would actually ship on Wednesday, the same day I ordered, which is darn good service. Not sure what the UPS delay is this time of year but being relatively close to Everlast I might see it by Friday or Sat....before I am actually ready for it in the shop. But rest assured I will be cutting up something even if I haven't got everything prepped for "real work"!

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You can mail status@everlastwelders.com, send them your name and address. They will send you a tracking number. I am sure the warehouse has been buried in work. Lots if neat Christmas gifts going out.

Oddly enough, I talk to people that do this and it shows that same day. But the holiday season might work again you. Hope that's not your case.

I had a PP70 for some time. Great unit. Using the PP50 now as it covers 99% of my cutting needs. But you will like having the extra power.

At the risk of being unhappy with something I haven't even gotten yet...:)....why if you had the pp70 do you now use the pp50?

I picked up the steel to build a cart and table for my MIG and the new PP70 this morning...pictures will follow if I ever get a chance to
work on it...I had hoped time off or work for the holidays would let me get some stuff done but I forgot holidays means I am actually
busier than when I am working...

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Originally Posted by macdarren

At the risk of being unhappy with something I haven't even gotten yet...:)....why if you had the pp70 do you now use the pp50?

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Money talks. A person saw it and had to have it and there was a new 2010 PP50 with the strap and bezel on the way to me. I'll have a PP80 on the way shortly. I work for Everlast :D

In tech support, we quite often swap models around so we know all the models. I have a PowerMaster 256 due here Tuesday. It has a 60 amp cutter in the TIG welder. So I am covered far as welding and cutting. I just un-created a PowerIMIG 250P. That that machine is nice (and heavy).

Hope the new website is up soon. As neither are on old site.

I just really like the fact that the PP70 would cut 1.25" of steel (thickest piece I had) so fast. No reason for me personally to cut something that thick other than testing the products.

Yeah!

UPS says they have delivered my cutter....
I am rushing home (as fast as CA traffic will allow to check it out)

Order on Wed morning received on Friday morning just slightly more than
48 hours....talk about service.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macdarren

Yeah!

UPS says they have delivered my cutter....
I am rushing home (as fast as CA traffic will allow to check it out)

Order on Wed morning received on Friday morning just slightly more than
48 hours....talk about service.

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The units ship from our warehouse in SF, Ca. The East coast customers have to wait 4-6 days.

Don't get in a wreck.

Well First impressions.....

The unit was boxed and packed well with no visible damage.
After having used and looked at smaller units this one seems huge.
It dwarfs my 210Amp Mig though it is not as heavy.
Cool green color....I'll post some side by side pictures later.
The P-80 torch is also much larger in real life.

Assembly went well except for a small problem with the air filter mounting bracket...the holes in the main unit are too far apart even for the most extreme slip position of the bracket but a little filing took care of that.
Included manual is very weak but I have the downloaded one.

Next step was to head out to the store and pickup a compatible power plug. The unit ships with the sort of plug where the tabs are slanted but I have the one big one little set up for the Welder and would prefer to keep everything the same....the plug is not attached to the unit as shipped anyway so attaching a different one is not a problem....or would not have been if I had not over twisted a screw but that is a different story.

Hooked up the Air with my master pressure regulator set to 65lbs thinking that would be a good starting place, flipped on the power and the fans come on...kinda noisy but not too terrible. I hear a buzzing sizzle sound that I am assuming is the HF starter or something. Next thing I notice is the air pressure light is on indicating low pressure....I check around outside and do not see any kinks I try adjusting the on board regulator and the needle moves so I set it to 60lbs but still the light is on. I also notice the power indicator light is NOT lit...weird the unit is clearly on but no power light....something is wrong I think....not sure if under air light deactivates the power or something but I don't know why the air light would be on unless the unit needs more pressure....I cranked up my master to 80lbs but still under pressure light is on.....I will try to see if I can find an air line problem but I am afraid I won't be cutting soon....no power light and no pilot when the trigger is pulled makes me think something is not right inside....sigh.

On the new units, the air pressure light stays on when in operating range...Do not overcrank the air pressure...If you drop it down, below 35 psi or so, it will go out, indicating a problem. Make sure your machine is set for manual torch operation. Also, adjust your post flow to at least 10 seconds. Check to make sure you have your pilot wire connected.
One light is a overheat light. It will not be lit. It possibly might be a torch issue. Give MIke a call. He may be working this weekend. Or pm him or me your number and we will see what is going on. Sounds like a easy fix. We don't have any doa's on those units. Would be the first that I know of...So, I think it is likely something isn't too wrong. Check your wire to the plug again...Sometimes only one wire is making good contact and the units will power on, but will not cut. I have had this happen myself a couple of times, it will act like it is on, but no power up a flame. If the contacts inside your plug are jammed or slightly corroded, or even, on the smaller gauge wire, are not tightened down sufficiently, this can cause a problem and would be the source of your problem...You mention something about overtightening....it may still be related to that. Check both legs for 110V to ground and 220 across the terminals output. Sometimes we have had a hot leg not make contact in the panel box as well due to corrosion or loose lugs.


Does the post flow start? Is it on CNC or manual? Try flipping the CNC switch the opposite direction, as it is possible it was installed upside down. Have you tested the solenoid by turning on constant flow? Does the amp meter light?
Have you tried to drag start it? Place it on the metal, and squeeze the trigger and drag the tip on the metal...just see if power is flowing. There might be a loose wire on the trigger or on the unit. The HF will make a quick buzz sound when you crank it up, but then it only operates when the trigger is pulled.

Thanks I will check the things you mention...

Pretty sure the wall socket is ok and as the welder works there.
Might be the plug I installed on the cutter...it was new and the part I overtightened was the ground on the plug when I screwed down the green wire.....not a big deal I just had to bend the brass terminal back into position....I will pull the plug cover and check to see I am getting power at the proper levels and points. The fans clearly are running but I get no power light....which is the most concerning thing. I do hear what sounds like a welding buzz coming from the unit constantly. I wonder about the trigger switch on the p-80....It doesn't really move as much as I would expect when depressed I expected it to have more positive action but it just kinda mushes down. I will PM my number maybe we can work on it in the morning if I don't fix it by going over the things you specified.

Edit: A quick check before retiring.....120v to both terminals from ground, 230V between terminals, this is measured at the screw lugs inside the plug (back shell cover off..yikes) with the plug in the socket. Reduced master regulator to 30psi, unit still shows no power light, pressure light is still lit. I also forgot to mention before I have nothing on the AMP display it is totally dark no matter the amp control position, sizzle buzz from inside unit is constant as long as unit is on....fan runs continuously while unit is on. Anything else to check? Should I unplug and pop the cover, or maybe unhook trigger wire to see if it is coming up with the trigger stuck down would that cause a problem?

Macdarren,

Can you email support or PM your phone number. I can give you a call. I will PM you my direct number now. It is 6AM EST here and you are in Ca. So you might want to call me when you are up and at it.

Looks like we might need to pop the cover, but I would like to be on the phone with you prior for a couple checks first. Keep the meter handy.

Mark,

Thanks for offering to help.

I called your cell and left a message with my contact numbers.

I have tested the torch trigger and all seems in order there.

As suggested I pulled the back bezel and cover (man there are alot of screws)
Everything looks tight inside....at least no connectors hanging free or anything.

Call me back when you can....I'll be available after 9:30 am Pacific.

Thanks
Darren

An update to my PP70 story.....

Well I rushed home on Friday and there it was in all it's green glory, my new PP70 had arrived just a couple days after placing the order.

Sadly I had some trouble....however Everlast Tech support was on it fast as you can see from the above postings. After checking things myself on Friday, I was contacted by Mike on Saturday morning and we spent some time double checking everything....there didn't seem to be any stupid mistakes on my part so we pulled the cover to look inside for loose connections or obvious damage.

Now inside it is clear the units and especially the circuit boards are hand assembled. Working in computer and electrical engineering, I am a used to pretty high quality even on hand assembled prototypes. I would say the insides of the PP70 were about average, clearly not done by a master technician, NOT poorly done but probably done quickly by someone that knows the basics of good soldering and isn't too concerned with making things pretty. About what you would expect for bulk chinese assembly. I was surprised how complex the boards were, clearly there is more to this plasma thing than I thought.

We never found any internal problems. And the unit did start the pilot a few times but mostly it seemed unable to power-up correctly. I never really got a chance to cut anything. While taking apart the case I did notice that there was actually a pretty good crack in the plastic bezel on the front. This would have only been a problem if I had tried to carry it around by the handle, which I didn't do, but was evidence that it had probably been dropped pretty hard in shipment. Mike and I concluded that it would be best to exchange the whole thing since the operation was intermittent at best and eventually seemed to stop all together....I would suspect there were either components that got jarred up against each other and shorted or a crack had developed in one of the PC boards due to being dropped in shipment.

I contacted Alex on Saturday evening via email and got a response that day, that it would be handled on Monday....pretty excellent service for a weekend, not something you see from many merchants these days.

My conclusion is no product is perfect every time. I was told this is the first DOA seen on the newer units. Service from Everlast was beyond great so even if the unit doesn't 'everlast' I feel like the company stands behind what they sell which is really all you can ask.

While repacking the PP70 I did recheck the packaging and noted some compression of the foam carriers in the box. My suggestion would be that for items this heavy maybe a little more re-enforced box possibly with a cheap wood floor and then add another inch or so of dense foam at least on the bottom to provide a bit of cushion for when the shipper sets it down hard. And maybe I missed it but a 'This end up' sticker might help too. All that may increase shipping more than it is worth compared to replacing the odd unit but it would probably make the customers feel better and further reduce DOAs.

More when the replacement unit shows up....

Darren,

I personally had a call on a Power Master256 with front and back plastic broken today. First call on one for me as well, it is a big unit too, much bigger than yours. The plastics are cosmetic, but looks like we can use them to see how bad shipping was.

He is going to check some things for me tomorrow to see if his unit is going to be an issue from the shipping. The units have a 5 years warranty, but you pay shipping back to us after 30 days. Something we had when DHL was our main delivery company. Those days are over, but with the Christmas rush, maybe they are bouncing things around a little more.

We will get you working and thanks for the review and kind words.

Far as electronics. What is the last project you designed that had to pump 30-50 amps at 240VAC out of FETs to melt steel? That is why you see the hand work inside. This is a welder, not a uC (microcontroller) project. Also, our way, there is no corrosion to worry about.

The unit sizes of the PP 80 and the powermaster 256 are the same...but their is a large difference in weight, since the pm256 has a 60 amp cutter and a 250 amp tig/stick unit inside.

The issues as I understand it with the packaging, are according to UPS regulations. Darren, if you will look on the box, there are symbols (which all freight workers are taught to recognize) pointing the direction up. But the REAL problem is that all UPS belts and conveyors are unmanned. I have talked directly with my local UPS hub. The PM 256 weighs about 108 lbs or so in the box with accessories. The PP 80 probably about 70. Our former packaging was originally approved by UPS. We were having shipping problems in the last years models. After settling the claims of damage, UPS decided we needed to upgrade our packaging to the new standards. We have gone the way they asked with our packaging. There will never be a zero damage rate as long as everything is "forced" through belts. The soft foam is much better and offers some protection. I will talk with the factory to see what can be improved.

Mike,

You are correct we seldom intentionally want to melt stuff with the products we design or manufacture...:) We do however do automotive and locomotive electrical stuff including power systems (some of our FETs are the size of hockey pucks and power supplies that handle Kilowatts and ship on pallets) in addition we do light duty stuff like LCD panel drivers and micro-controllers (which I admit is where I spend most of my time.)

I was just commenting on the look of the parts in the case not the design or quality...for instance typically on a PCB I expect (for no good reason just me liking things to look pretty and used to machine or very detailed assemblies) similar components to be all mounted at a fixed height. (ie Two resistors of the same size mounted next to each other are usually the same distance from the board.) Piggy backing parts or the odd jumper wire is also common in preproduction less so in production. There is nothing wrong with either from an operational point of view, unless of course you have chassis clearance issues which the board assembler may not know about. That was all I was saying, not trying to claim there was anything inferior or bad about the insides or hand assembly in general (I have seen worse on much more expensive equipment) just obviously asembled by hand not by machine and really who cares how 'pretty' the insides are on a device like this.

I'll bet you are correct this is probably holiday rush damage clustering.

The boards are built in a regular manufacturing line, from my understanding, but the units are finished by hand, with final soldering and construction. There are different construction techinques used in different industries. I have seen similar things in other name brand welders. But then again, some brands aren't finsished this way either. But considering that a lot of hand assembly must be done on a unit like this, it is pretty well done. As our factory opens its new facilities after the first of the year, I expect that there will be more automation, but the human factor will always remain to some extent. Currently they produce their own boards and build the machines from ground up. But with the new factory facilities, the operation should be streamlined.

Darren,

Ah I see what you are talking about. I do many proto-types for myself, should see mine :D Now they are bad. They are large parts and not on a totally automated line.

We have be having a good year with shipping, but seem the Christmas shipping rush is flipping a unit or two. The other fellow I spoke with, bent frame rail inside and front and back bezel smashed. So we have a shipping claim there for sure.

Well my the replacement for my shiny green monster arrived today....

Just one week and a day since I first placed the order....The replacement was apparently shipped on Tuesday, probably even before I got the return unit on it's way back to Everlast...good service there!

Been kinda busy today, with it being Christmas Eve and all, but I took some time to inspect and hook up the new PP70. I again noted no significant damage to the shipping carton and externally the unit appears fine. I did note the middle of one yellow wire kinda poking through the vent grill on the left side of the unit but it doesn't appear to be damaged, just something that shifted a bit, I carefully poked it back it inside with a plastic tool.

I hooked the PP70 up to the air supply and power turned it way down to 25A and pulled the trigger.....I hear the valve open the air starts to flow but no pilot arc strikes. I tried several times with various air pressures from 60 to about 80. I tried just holding the torch to the work piece to see if anything would just but nothing. I checked the fuse and it is good. I get an amp display this time but there no buzz from inside the unit that I associate with the HF starter. The old unit buzzed constantly or for the short time it worked when the arc was started but this one is silent. I can only guess and hope maybe the internal gap setting is too wide or something simple like that, but I have no idea what the gap should be...that first unit had a really wide gap probably over an 1/8 inch and had no problem zapping across that.

I did note that the torch at had been test fired at least there was quite noticeable burning on the electrode and nozzle, I had not noted that on the previous unit....I took pictures.

I don't suppose any of the support guys are spending the 24th online but if you are out there I would really like to get this going I have projects to get to and time off scheduled to do them.

Darren