OK, neighbors here I go...

I've been playing more with the new machine. I'm finishing a 40' aluminum boat trailer and had to do some steel on the hitch. This thing runs LO-HI better than any machine I have. Only 3/32" but man, what beautiful stable arc. More tweaking with AL and again, I'm impressed. Maybe counter intuitive, but .047" works the best for me. That could be because that it is my main wire and has been my whole career, a leftover from the guy I learned from. I am really, really happy. The only thing left is to really put it though some duty other than 12" tests. I can't wait to show up somewhere and be 'laughed at'! What is so cool is that the internal DC power supply runs the gun so well. I'm curious as to why the output is not 24V as Mark implied but I think my time to be answered by the Everlast guys has expired. With the 30A there is a whole bunch of monkey-motion between the pot on the gun and the power at the welder or feeder that, frankly I would never be able to figure out how to configure. The 30A has seven wires to the gun. Now, only four do the job at the expense of not having wire speed control at the gun.

The unanswered Everlast guy question again is can I fry this thing and not know it? That is my only remaining concern.

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Originally Posted by Yofish

The unanswered Everlast guy question again is can I fry this thing and not know it? That is my only remaining concern.

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From what they've said in the past, you don't want to rely on the machine to shut down and save itself every time. Maybe you should test the duty cycle of your setup, then back off that a little to keep it safe.

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Originally Posted by zoama585

From what they've said in the past, you don't want to rely on the machine to shut down and save itself every time. Maybe you should test the duty cycle of your setup, then back off that a little to keep it safe.

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Thanks zoama, do I take that to mean that it does have fault protection but it's not reliable? Buy fault protection I mean like the machine will not weld until it rights itself? And that protection is not a fuse but a real auto reset fault protection breaker?

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Originally Posted by Yofish

Thanks zoama, do I take that to mean that it does have fault protection but it's not reliable? Buy fault protection I mean like the machine will not weld until it rights itself? And that protection is not a fuse but a real auto reset fault protection breaker?

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The official word will have to come from Everlast. I have nothing to do with tech support.
I believe the protection is reliable but welding until it shuts down repeatedly may still cause damage. I know that sounds contradicting, but that's my understanding from what I've read.
I've never overheated one of my machines, but I have tripped some sort of protection on my mig welder when I first struck an arc. In that instance the machine stays running and the wire still feeds but won't arc. The machine has to be turned off and back on to reset.
I'm sure you can get much better info by calling tech support and talking to Ray, Mike or Mark http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Technical-support.php

Ok, let me try to answer this again. I have tried to indicate this before, but want to make it a matter of public record here again, not in PM.

1) The reason the unit does not put out a full 24V is that because Voltage determines the speed that at which the wire feed motor drives the wire. Wire speed controls amps. To exceed a certain voltage would mean that the unit would have to put out more amperage than the unit is capable of.
2) Larger diameter wire does not need to be fed as fast to get to spray mode, because of the dynamics of a larger diameter wire able to provide the same amps at a lower speed. That is why it feeds better in general.
3) Yes. Yes. Yes. You can "fry" the unit. This is what we've been trying to say again and again and why it was recommended you get a larger unit. Duty cycle protection is the same as a Redline on a car. Do you want to just sit and redline your cars engine day after day for hours on end??? Even if you keep it a hundred rpm's below the "rev" limiter? No. There's a reason there are "idiot" lights on cars to prevent damage. But when they come on, damage may have already been done, whether its a temperature gauge or oil pressure gauge. Sure you can start the car back up and run it, after adding oil/fixing oil pump or allowing the engine to cool, but damage to the rest of the engine long term probably has already happened. This is the same for the duty cycle.

Thanks again zoama and Mark. Of the two replies your's, zoama, answers the (what I call) fault protection question best, I think, because the description you provide is exactly what my PortFlex does when there is either a poor ground condition or too much wire is applied for the voltage. That tells me the rat inside the machine lets go of the juice with both paws then grabs hold again after a bit and just doesn't smoke forever. I'm fine with idiot lights, it's just that I don't have a full time helper to watch for a red light while peering through shade #11 30' away.

Mark, I understand that this sort of thing bugs you guys because of the ramifications if someone else may follow this path. Two people have already PM'd me about how to do it. I understand that a bigger machine would be better. I have 2 bigger machines. Originally I was looking for something bigger because of the age of my equipment but not knowing if your equipment and my ideas would jibe, I filled the needed niche a smaller machine fills instead. Generally, I'm a happy customer. Right now, the way I have the machine set so it feels 'good' to me is 21+V (still tuning but not 22V) and the wirespeed @ 221 (IPM or chains per hour means nothing to me other than I know it has more room upwards) and is pulling around 150A. That puts it just below the published duty rating of 35%. I see no problems with that rate if it's true, for how I intend to use it.

Your explanation of the voltage clears that up. Fortunately in my case, it all worked out. I believe in one post you said it used 24V, hence my confusion.

Now, what bugs me is being told something 'won't work' for rather specious reasons. I'm not you but this is how I would have answered me: "You know what? I really do not know the answer to all of your questions. We at Everlast have never done what you are trying to do. We are not familiar with the gun that you are trying to mate to the IMig200. Furthermore, we do not recommend what you are trying to do because you may be exceeding the capabilities of what the IMig200 is designed to do. Of course, should you proceed, we hope you understand you have cancelled any implied warranties. We understand the problem that there is no published schematic for this machine but will assist you the best we can in how the wiring in the IMig200 works. Good luck and thank you for choosing Everlast."

Actually Yofish,
I do know about the guns...and most spool guns are very similar in one way or the other. I've never used a 30A, but many of the others I have. It's immaterial.
Without getting into all the details...this has been tried before with this unit with another customer or two under watchful and hopeful eyes. The units failed fairly quickly if I recall correctly and people all want to say "I don't care if it fails or not" when they modify something, but then come crying back about this or that and why it shouldn't have failed so quickly and you need to warranty this or give me a new machine...or give me my money back. I don't feel pressed to give you every little detail of why it is not a good idea or the experience, other than to say, I discourage it. Information we put on this site whether by you or by us can be construed as approval of what you are doing and cost us way more money in the long run legally than a customer simply with a busted machine if someone else wants to "try" your approach or your techniques (all been done before and unnaccepted by the AWS and others as they are). You don't think about those things, but we do. It happens nearly everytime without fail! I get calls nearly every day of where someone is mad because they read someone did such-in-such unorthodox thing with their welder, and they bought it to do the same thing and it wouldn't...when WE never said it would and then they cry and want a refund after they've damaged it or abused it.

Where you got the 24V from was that you asked me what our spool gun motors were rated for. I said 24V...which they are. But as I tried to explain then, you won't get that much voltage out of it because 24V will put out too much wire speed for the capability of the units amps.

As an experienced welder, it seems that you should know a little more about the relationship of wire speed to amps...and that by varying the voltage driving the motor you will get varying wire speed rates... All you seemed to care about was that the gun motor ran on 24V. That is what put me off to this whole thing to begin with. This is basic MIG welding 101 and if it isn't understood and the other statements about aluminum spray going against proven scientific study and fact, it fails into the realm of creating a perpetual motion machine to me. You're welcome to try and we'll answer what we can directly, but think this thread has gone on long enough, and we've stated our position. I think it's probably time to close it and let it fade away.

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Originally Posted by performance

Actually Yofish,
I do know about the guns...and most spool guns are very similar in one way or the other. I've never used a 30A, but many of the others I have. It's immaterial.
Without getting into all the details...this has been tried before with this unit with another customer or two under watchful and hopeful eyes. The units failed fairly quickly if I recall correctly and people all want to say "I don't care if it fails or not" when they modify something, but then come crying back about this or that and why it shouldn't have failed so quickly and you need to warranty this or give me a new machine...or give me my money back. I don't feel pressed to give you every little detail of why it is not a good idea or the experience, other than to say, I discourage it. Information we put on this site whether by you or by us can be construed as approval of what you are doing and cost us way more money in the long run legally than a customer simply with a busted machine if someone else wants to "try" your approach or your techniques (all been done before and unnaccepted by the AWS and others as they are). You don't think about those things, but we do. It happens nearly everytime without fail! I get calls nearly every day of where someone is mad because they read someone did such-in-such unorthodox thing with their welder, and they bought it to do the same thing and it wouldn't...when WE never said it would and then they cry and want a refund after they've damaged it or abused it.

Where you got the 24V from was that you asked me what our spool gun motors were rated for. I said 24V...which they are. But as I tried to explain then, you won't get that much voltage out of it because 24V will put out too much wire speed for the capability of the units amps.

As an experienced welder, it seems that you should know a little more about the relationship of wire speed to amps...and that by varying the voltage driving the motor you will get varying wire speed rates... All you seemed to care about was that the gun motor ran on 24V. That is what put me off to this whole thing to begin with. This is basic MIG welding 101 and if it isn't understood and the other statements about aluminum spray going against proven scientific study and fact, it fails into the realm of creating a perpetual motion machine to me. You're welcome to try and we'll answer what we can directly, but think this thread has gone on long enough, and we've stated our position. I think it's probably time to close it and let it fade away.

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Yikes! Actually Mark, I do know the relationship of wire speed to amps. I have to congratulate you though, for making that danged voltage thing clear. For all these years I thought that when you adjusted that knob doo-hickey and pulled the trigger it somehow mashed the tail of the squirrel, making him run faster, thus providing more wire. This is the last thing I will write TO YOU regarding this matter, because you make me feel like I'm in some sort of parallel universe in which I do not belong. Now that you have revealed even more I will rewrite how I, if I were you, would reply to me for the very first time:

"Dear customer, the very thing you are attempting to do has been tried twice before and the result was that both machines failed."

Man, what is your problem with not just f_____g getting to the point? I'll give you the last word which for CYA's sake you will undoubtedly do, but I won't read it because I don't have a taste for your word salads.

To be honest, you have, on your own, discouraged me from ever buying another Everlast machine.

So, after more messing around I came up with the minimums (for me) of what makes a reasonable weld with the little machine using the fewest resources. The first pic shows the weld with the machine set at 19.5 V and 185 mouse bites per minute on the wire and drawing between 146-151A, .047" 5356 wire on .190" material. The appearance isn't buttery, being short arc and therefore there are BB's and spatter but the puddle was nice and fluid, good cleaning, the penetration looked decent and the legs tied into the base material:

Attachment 11983

Welded on one side only, I beat it over as far as I could on the anvil. The upper leg is just beginning to pull away from the base but under magnification it was tied in, it's not a cold lap. This is a pretty common failure you see in boats; the parent material alongside the weld (heat affected zone) lets go after uncontrolled flexures before the weld ever will. I'm pretty sure this was 5052, the scrap bin is not segregated but 5086 would have cracked more, I think. Anyway, the upsot is that I can live with the results and gain another 8-10% on the duty cycle, which is important. Notice the weld behind which was done at one and 1/2 more volt and 210 on the wire. Much nicer appearance but it drew up to 160+A.

Attachment 11984

Looks very interesting. Could you measure the actual wire speed, just for a reference? Especially at the 210 setting, that looks really nice for times when you can spare the duty cycle, or on a wee bit larger machine.

Like I mentioned before, we use a IMIG200 with aluminum all the time, and mobile with a 5500 watt generator.

No one said it will not do aluminum, just no spray.

We use straight argon and .030 4043 for our goto welding to fix rails, gates, john boats, etc. We do mobile welding all time with it and a 5500 watt generator (porter cable/vanguard).

Note, you can lay the argon tank on the side for aluminum runs. But on steel, it is either flux core (my son hates but tank required) or argon/co2 mix. The co2 tank need to be vertical to weld otherwise the liquid co2 will freeze up the regulator and cause damage.

On the .047 5356 at 210 speed and 20volts, might have to pick up a a small spool next trip. Thanks for posting your settings.

It will spray. At least mine will...but it is maxed out.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

Looks very interesting. Could you measure the actual wire speed, just for a reference? Especially at the 210 setting, that looks really nice for times when you can spare the duty cycle, or on a wee bit larger machine.

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Rambozo, I don't quite get your meaning of "measure actual wire speed"? As in pull the trigger, count to ten and measure the wire length? Yes, one can get some very nice appearing welds with this machine and it will certainly 'spray' but I have no attraction to spray per se because it is useless for what I'm trying to accomplish here. IMHO, this attraction to the Holy Grail of 'Spray Mode' is idiotic. One could certainly 'spray' the weld where a .125" deck intersects a .125" side plate on skiff but you would only do that once. The heat distortion would kill you. You wouldn't go 5' before you realized that you made a very, very big mistake. Not to mention the near impossibility of preventing some burn-through. Having said that, I have seen it done but only with a very fast no-weave weld that has dodgy penetration. At 65, arthritic and wearing trifocals, I ain't the machine I once was.

And again, I have a larger machine, that's not the point.

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

On the .047 5356 at 210 speed and 20volts, might have to pick up a a small spool next trip. Thanks for posting your settings.

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??????????

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Originally Posted by Yofish

??????????

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http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...3405#post53405 You said...

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Much nicer appearance but it drew up to 160+A.

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Originally Posted by zoama585

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...3405#post53405 You said...

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zoama, pardon my opacity but I guess I should have cut my paste a little better: "might have to pick up a small spool next trip." I do not know what the Op meant by that, was he addressing me or himself?

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Originally Posted by Yofish

zoama, pardon my opacity but I guess I should have cut my paste a little better: "might have to pick up a small spool next trip." I do not know what the Op meant by that, was he addressing me or himself?

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I see what you're saying now. He's going to get a small spool of wire and try your settings. I read his statement as a compliment to you.

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Originally Posted by Yofish

Rambozo, I don't quite get your meaning of "measure actual wire speed"? As in pull the trigger, count to ten and measure the wire length?

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You got it. I usually do a six second pull so I can multiply by 10 for inches per minute. I've never seen a machine with a true display for all circumstances, and with your mashup it would be nice to get a better feel for what the true wire speed you're using. Like you, I also usually add a voltmeter to get real output readings.

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Originally Posted by Yofish

??????????

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I read your experience in your post, or at least I thought it was yours and figure next run to the LWS I would get a small spool (for the spool gun on my imig-200) of 5356 and try your settings. See how it works for us as you have invested the time and posted. Not sure what the ???? means?

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Originally Posted by Yofish

zoama, pardon my opacity but I guess I should have cut my paste a little better: "might have to pick up a small spool next trip." I do not know what the Op meant by that, was he addressing me or himself?

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You are the OP and I was addressing you. Will quote you next time. But the numbers in the post I would have though you would see they were yours.