Powertig 185 Finger Amp control 17 Series torch availability

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04-19-2014, 01:43 AM
performance

Wearenotalon,

First,
It may be cool, but Mike is in different position in the company. He also isn't responsible for having to deal with the aftermath facing customers wrath like I have and others have in the company when something went wrong when a customer called and threatened to go public and make bogus accusations with an issue they caused and we didn't feel bound to honor the warranty. We've had to make changes in our position on many things because of the reasons I cited have taken place over time and as we've grown, we've had to make changes to keep up with the industry and become a worldwide organization. We'll help you make repairs and diagnosis over the phone, and help any customer in need, but we've tried to grow beyond being some the reputation of being a hobby project for some guy with intentions of playing around with electronics. We're not Radio shack.

Second, YOU were the one to raise the most recent issue, come to think of it over on WW about a mod a customer made and was warned about...and then you wanted him to rate us on our attitude on helping him out!!!!...Which was actually a veiled attempt to make things look bad on our part, or an attempt to completely shame us one..and then you raised the issue in a separate thread of "IS this an example of Everlast ISO quality"....instead of contacting us and letting us take a look at it over normal means...which says you are a showman, and wanting to make a BIG deal out of everything. We take care of our customers if there is a problem. But your motivation for a thread like that puts you at odds with your claim of simply being someone who wants to put a foot pedal on a unit...You've already tried to publicly humiliate Everlast in a big way on WW by using bold lettering "shouting" on an issue that could have been easily and normally resolved. Your hostile tone may be just the way you talk to everybody, not sure, but you put us on the defensive when you say "I find it hard to believe...". Do you realize that is the same as calling someone a liar?
Third,
Stocking and servicing isn't a nightmare. Electronic components, are name brand, and off the shelf parts....if something goes bad, it isn't an issue with parts.
Fourth,
You have to deal with the wattage of the pot. I don't have that information...if you want that contact tech support. I am looking at the schematics that I have. It does not spell it out...but it is feasable that it won't. We changed pot suppliers in many cases for better reliability...and went through a heavy and expensive round of testing and upgrading to make sure these new units were 100% where they should be...and went back to the drawing board if it wasn't.

Fifth, your last line in the last post makes a lot of assumptions that you know nothing about. The original from late2010, 140ST is still in my possession. The new ones are still being made in the same factory. It is still running, and IF I need parts, it's a phone call away. We are repairing units as far back as 2004, and since the new series came out in 2008 (Power series), we are still servicing them even though many of the models are greatly transformed.

Anytime I've seen a person do what you are doing publicly rather than calling and discussing with tech support and following through with the normal path of resolution that we spell out on our site and in our manuals, it is to make a name for themselves, and not for Everlast.
04-19-2014, 02:59 AM
WeAreNotAlon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambozo

This day and age, it is totally understandable. Mike & Mark work for Everlast, it would be irresponsible and in violation of more than one rule for them to advise you on making modifications to your equipment. It's a legal and safety thing, much more than it has anything to do with sales. Other owners do not have to follow those same rules. The other thing is also more of a "if you have to ask, you might not know enough to do this safely". Working with high energy electronics can be lethal. This is not the best kind of project to learn on, for that reason. Battery powered circuits are a lot more forgiving of mistakes. You might smoke a part or two, but other than a burned finger or two, it's not that dangerous. Something like a welder is not so forgiving. It has the one two punch of high voltage on the input and super high current on the output. It could kill you with no trouble at all. So while I'm all for people modding things and learning new skills, you need to learn basic safety before you dive in. It's not just wiring something up wrong, either. Because of the voltage and current involved, just routing one wire too close to another or crossing it at 90° can be a problem. High current will generate voltage in wires passing close by. This is how some of the parts in the welder operate. And obviously the machine is very capable of producing enough current to jump a gap, it's an arc welder after all, so how things are routed is very important.
The other big difference is that I didn't have to ask what would work, and made it very clear that I was voiding my warranty with this, and only discussed it after I had tested everything.

Also Mark didn't say that wouldn't interchange, he just didn't say it would. He really can't say anymore, but he did tell you that the schematic shows it as a 103 pot so he did more than he needed to. He also mentioned that it is part of a series parallel circuit with other resistors so it probably forms a ladder divider circuit. You can take it from there.

I understand and agree with all the points you bring up except for the fear on EverLast's part that they are fearful of a low-end model cannibalizing sales of "higher-priced" models which come with a way to control amps remotely. So far as liability issues, all they have to do is to state doing such is at the "owners" risk.

It is quite apparent the 140st is capable of remote amperage control and the cost to add the feature is virtually nil. To add a connector, the additionally wiring would probably run less than $2.00 if that in China.
Imagine how they would corner the market if it came setup from the get-go with a way to remotely control the amps, both in the short and LONG term.

Sales of 140st's would soar.
160's would drop a little.
Pedal sales would soar.
Persons buying into the low-end would put EverLast on their short list on who to buy from when it comes time to upgrade. As it is now lots of potential customers such as myself find it hard to buy into the EverLast brand if they Google around.

.
04-19-2014, 03:29 AM
performance

See, this is where you are well, wrong, wrong to an extreme. We have no fear of anything of the such and it quite ludicrous to suggest it. Sales of the 140ST are plenty high, so high we can't keep them in stock. We hear just the opposite of what you are stating about "finding it hard to buy into the brand"....hmmm, must be why we are experiencing record sales, have active distributors on 6 continents and are being distributed through companies like home depot on those smaller units... People buy them for stick primarily and light TIG work. Your estimation of cost to make this change is well underestimated. Sales of 160 wouldn't fall because people know that 160 amps is a critical amp range to have in stick or TIG and both are primarily stick welder with TIG functions ...and it puts out more on 120V than the 140ST. The 160STH would hold its own because of the HF start circuit as well...and built in automatic gas flow. Foot pedal use with lift tig and no automatic gas flow control is uncommon and not a preferred style of start for most people...I can imagine the burned up tungstens and the cussing that would ensue everytime some tried to lift start with a pedal and forgetting to turn the gas on....let the complaints about not having HF start and gas control begin because it is so cheap to add them....

BTW, most people who buy the 160sth, PoweriTIG 200 and even the PowerTIG 185 DON'T buy pedals....
04-19-2014, 03:36 AM
Paul Moir

Quote:

Originally Posted by performance

You have to deal with the wattage of the pot. I don't have that information...

Unless you've got like 50v going to your 22k pot, it's not an issue. V^2 / R my man...

Of course you could throw a multimeter on the pot and then you'd know exactly what you could or could not replace it with. Or reverse engineer the circuit even a little bit. It ain't exactly rocket science.
04-19-2014, 03:44 AM
Rambozo

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreNotAlon

I understand and agree with all the points you bring up except for the fear on EverLast's part that they are fearful of a low-end model cannibalizing sales of "higher-priced" models which come with a way to control amps remotely. So far as liability issues, all they have to do is to state doing such is at the "owners" risk.

It is quite apparent the 140st is capable of remote amperage control and the cost to add the feature is virtually nil. To add a connector, the additionally wiring would probably run less than $2.00 if that in China.
Imagine how they would corner the market if it came setup from the get-go with a way to remotely control the amps, both in the short and LONG term.

Sales of 140st's would soar.
160's would drop a little.
Pedal sales would soar.
Persons buying into the low-end would put EverLast on their short list on who to buy from when it comes time to upgrade. As it is now lots of potential customers such as myself find it hard to buy into the EverLast brand if they Google around.

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but without sales figures, it's just a guess. Based on the new models, the company seems to think that the opposite is true and are removing features to lower the price even more. There is now a 140 non-ST version at $219. That is just an amazing price for an entry level welder. I bet on sale it will break that magic $200 level and sell for $199 at times. They have very little serious competition for the 140ST, so it's nice that even though the price went up a little, it is still a great package. Adding a footpedal to a welder without HF or a contactor is something of a stunt, and is a very niche market. Anyone serious about the kind of TIG that needs a pedal, should have HF for clean starts and a contactor to allow post weld shielding. Adding those features basically takes you to the 160STH which is really the right kind of machine for a pedal. That this machine even includes lift arc over basic scratch start is just gravy for an entry level machine.
04-19-2014, 05:04 AM
WeAreNotAlon

Quote:

Originally Posted by performance

Wearenotalon,

First,
It may be cool, but Mike is in different position in the company. He also isn't responsible for having to deal with the aftermath facing customers wrath like I have and others have in the company when something went wrong when a customer called and threatened to go public and make bogus accusations with an issue they caused and we didn't feel bound to honor the warranty. We've had to make changes in our position on many things because of the reasons I cited have taken place over time and as we've grown, we've had to make changes to keep up with the industry and become a worldwide organization. We'll help you make repairs and diagnosis over the phone, and help any customer in need, but we've tried to grow beyond being some the reputation of being a hobby project for some guy with intentions of playing around with electronics. We're not Radio shack.

First of all I don't care about making a name for myself or showboating, nor do I know about "who" does what at EverLast nor really care. Googling on the EverLast brand I found alot of negative info about "importers" of Chinese made welders and EverLast in general. With that said I realize there are shills that work for competing companies, etc... and that your company has undergone growing pains.

Quote:

Second, YOU were the one to raise the most recent issue, come to think of it over on WW about a mod a customer made and was warned about...and then you wanted him to rate us on our attitude on helping him out!!!!...Which was actually a veiled attempt to make things look bad on our part, or an attempt to completely shame us one..

Unit is without a warranty to repair, so I wasn't expecting you to repair the unit... I was only wondering IF tech support was able to provide the values of the blown resistor. I was not trying to "shame" EverLast, I was just wanting to find out IF your tech support is truely indeed able to repair boards on the component level in the USA, vs entirely relying upon replacement parts to come in from China.

Quote:

and then you raised the issue in a separate thread of "IS this an example of Everlast ISO quality"....instead of contacting us and letting us take a look at it over normal means...which says you are a showman, and wanting to make a BIG deal out of everything.

On the thread about the "Is this an example of Everlast ISO quality?"... My main concern was it appeared that the main board may have been dropped during the assembly process and the shock of such damaging the main board. Loose screws and such are easily fixed. One of the main reasons for going with EverLast was I had read that your units are built to a ISO standard and YES I was upset in receiving a unit in which ALL the screws were basically finger tight and the heatsinks showed damage that could be a indication the main board had been dropped.

(My main concern beyond any damage to the board that would occur if board was dropped is if the crew that assembles the MAIN BOARD is of a higher caliber than the final assembly people.)

Quote:

We take care of our customers if there is a problem. But your motivation for a thread like that puts you at odds with your claim of simply being someone who wants to put a foot pedal on a unit...You've already tried to publicly humiliate Everlast in a big way on WW by using bold lettering "shouting" on an issue that could have been easily and normally resolved. Your hostile tone may be just the way you talk to everybody, not sure, but you put us on the defensive when you say "I find it hard to believe...". Do you realize that is the same as calling someone a liar?

For the record, the replacement unit had several issues that made it past quality control as well in which I PM'd Oleg about which took about 30-40 mins of my time to correct. (Oleg had PM'd me asking if the replacement had arrived /if everything had been taken care. Out of respect for Oleg I Pm'd him the details vs posting on the open board.)

Additionally if I was looking to "embarrass" EverLast I would create threads on forums EverLast does not control.
(I've read on the net EverLast deletes posts and threads that paint EverLast in a negative light)

Quote:

Third,
Stocking and servicing isn't a nightmare. Electronic components, are name brand, and off the shelf parts....if something goes bad, it isn't an issue with parts.

One of the reasons I purchased a EverLast was I read EverLast uses name brand off the shelf parts, and they don't play games with hiding values of the components (Something like that.) I would have thought "asking" the value of a "pot" wouldn't be a big deal.

Quote:

Fourth,
You have to deal with the wattage of the pot. I don't have that information...if you want that contact tech support. I am looking at the schematics that I have. It does not spell it out...but it is feasable that it won't. We changed pot suppliers in many cases for better reliability...and went through a heavy and expensive round of testing and upgrading to make sure these new units were 100% where they should be...and went back to the drawing board if it wasn't.

Thank you for taking the time to look at the schematic. (really) Sort of afraid to call you guys now as you think I'm a bad person.
(For the record I had a good conversation with ALEX Friday before last. Read on the net he was hard to deal with but I felt we got along just fine.)

Quote:

Fifth, your last line in the last post makes a lot of assumptions that you know nothing about. The original from late2010, 140ST is still in my possession. The new ones are still being made in the same factory.

All I know is what I've read on the net. As a general rule the more "variations" you have of anything and the parts don't interchange across models that is a "Perfect Storm" scenario to parts being N/A a couple of years down the road.

Quote:

It is still running, and IF I need parts, it's a phone call away. We are repairing units as far back as 2004, and since the new series came out in 2008 (Power series), we are still servicing them even though many of the models are greatly transformed.

Good to know.

Quote:

Anytime I've seen a person do what you are doing publicly rather than calling and discussing with tech support and following through with the normal path of resolution that we spell out on our site and in our manuals, it is to make a name for themselves, and not for Everlast.

Well it looks like you met the EXCEPTION. I do wish EverLast all the best.... Just wanted a confirmation on the pot values as I need to complete a project and I cannot envision doing that project without a way to vary amps remotely.
I apologize if I've rubbed you wrong. I am in a extreme amount of stress at this point in my life and I find it hard to express myself in the written word.

.

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