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BuzzQuote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
we had 5 units of the new version only and you got yours by mistake . Box was not properly marked by factory and I gladly exchange for current model. Unit you have now should be out sometimes this year with 110/220 voltage
Sounds like Buzz's gonna hang on to it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
Tinker, i was about to start typing the same post, then I saw you already said it. I dont think the description "SET/LIMIT MAX AVAILABLE AMPS ON WITH KNOB ON PEDAL" could normally be interpreted to mean that it also precludes the amps from being read on the LED screen. It would seem reasonable to assume that you could control the amps from the pedal, but read the amps on the LED at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker
Finding out that the brother got a prototype makes me feel better. I had briefly thought i just missed the changeover point for the newly redesigned 200DX, with several new improvements. i dont have that feeling that i ordered a couple of weeks too soon anymore.
I think if one reads and compares the different statements and studies the information, with the fact we have openly discussed this since 2009 on this forum, no one is kept in the dark about the feature. Some people do their homework and some don't. There is also a statement about how the 200DX works in conjunction with the pulse...yet I get people that tell me they don't understand after the information is out there. There simply is just no way to make it where EVERYONE will read all the information. We have a statement about the I tigs not being suitable for aluminum...but we still have people that buy a DC welder to weld aluminum, and then blame us for not saying anything to them about it not welding aluminum when they get it. We try guys, in the limited space you have on a web page, to give as much information as possible. The problem is that when there is more information, its the same as my post now...it's too long. People skip it, or won't read any further and miss it anyway if EVERY detail is there.
The unit sells for just over 1000 dollars. It's an excellent welder, runs, pulses, and makes great welds in stick and tig. You aren't paying for all the additional "bells and whistles". You won't receive the extras typically if you don't pay for them. IF the 200DX was a scaled down 250EX, then you'd in actuality be paying about 50.00 less than the 250EX. The factory charges not so much for horse power (though they do) but more for the features that we put into the machine.
Actually, no, not all foot pedals have worked this way. Several older model tigs had foot pedals set up in the way the this one is. More experienced welders don't usually see a problem. The problem is that people forget that when you are welding with a foot pedal, you are NOT welding by exact amps. You are welding by feel and sight. You really don't care what your max amp setting is. You only care what is going on in the puddle. Welding with a foot pedal is NOT a scientifically controlled way of welding. IF something in the work order specifies, to weld within a narrow range of amps, you will NOT weld it with a foot pedal. The exact top max amps doesn't matter. A foot pedal is always a "guesstimate" of the maximum amps you will need anyway and it's set to be hotter than needed anyway. You cannot look over at the panel while welding to try to determine if you are welding exactly at 65 amps. No you wouldn't know if you were welding at 65, 63 or 56 for that matter...You are only focusing on if the puddle is wetting in or not. A few minutes of experience will teach you all you need to know about welding with the foot pedal that adjusts this way. The value that the pedal puts out when welding is sufficient with a little bit of practice to make a reliable "translation" everytime to guide in the maximum adjustment of amps.
I researched all of the welders a great deal before deciding on the purchase of a 200DX last year. I got it and wasn't surprised at all by the way it worked. I did assume it woudl display the amps, however, once I saw that it didn't I went to the next step and actually started welding rather than trying to reverse engineer or complain about how I though the welder should have worked.
Sometimes people just cannot be pleased. Those people should probably go to heir local welding supplier, pay 2-3X the cost, and then go and bug them every other day in person.
This is not meant to be a hit on Everlast, but if anyone buys a welder or any piece of equipment that is 1/3 the cost of its competition, and an import, you are pretty much going to have to expect a few things that are not quite as "organized" as the big brands. It is the same with everything. Go to Harbor Freight and take a look through the manuals that come with the product (or lowes or sears in the house brand power tools for that matter)....same thing.
If you are not happy with the welder that you chose, then you have the option of sending it back and choosing a different model, for a 20% surcharge.
Stop by your local welding store and ask them to show you what $1100 will buy you....
I, like Tinker, also bought my 200DX about a year ago. At that time the pedal adjusted amperage was not listed on the product page at all and from the several days of searching this site and others was not brought up anywhere else I looked. Also, like Tinker, I would have been willing to spend the extra money to buy the 225 or 250 for the more industry standard operational features. Don't think of it as bitching, think of it as a suggestion to be crystal clear of the features of each of the machines from the get go. Two things will happen, some people like Tinker and I will spend more money with you for a higher end machine and the ones that won't spend the extra money will know 100% about what they are getting into and won't have any reason to be surprised with what they receive. Its a win-win in my eyes.
Chris
That is good advice Chris.
Last count, I think we have around, or close to 40 products, not counting accessories, consumables, and misc items. That is also several hundred pages of website for a small staff to keep up with. We cannot forsee every question or every issue or conflict that will arise on a site. We do our best. The units have had the caveat for over a year,...I know, because I added it myself sometime in November of last year. I felt like it would handle the questions that were most commonly asked before and after the sale.
Perhaps someone can post up HOW they would handle it, precisely...no armchairing here? Keep in mind it has to fit into a box less than one inch square and still be readable, in the same box about the foot pedal differences or somewhere in context of the documentation at the top. Preferably, keep it 10 words or less to keep it simple and explain/contrast its function with the other units in our line.
Not so easy..or maybe it is that I have stared at those pages to long to think outside the box.
Like I said, its a suggestion not bashing at all. I manage sales of right at 200 products (not including parts and accessories) for our company and its no easy task as you know. Between current pictures, product descriptions and pricing its a never ending, thankless job. I am on complete overhaul 4 of our company website just in the last 4 years. As each overhaul is complete I find things getting more and more refined and the questions and problems tend to get less and less. It's an ongoing process that for most companies with changing product lines, will never end.
My personal suggestion would be to take the product comparison section at the bottom of each page and put it at the bottom of the main welder page where you already have the small comparison chart at the top (if you feel you need to keep that section at all after you read my next thought). Then on each individual welder page, take that same chart and instead of detailing the features of all of the available machines, use the entire width of that chart to spread out the information of that one machine. This gives you more room to put in additional information while still retaining the same general page format. The problem with large comparison charts is it makes for limited space for information (which you touched on) and it also makes it easier for people to get confused between models. In addition a "FAQ" section could be added where you periodically add in information that may be relevant to the machine.
Chris
Chris we had that on our old website. It did not work. People want to see all the products side by side and individual information on each unit on its own in one view. We have problems all the time because people won't even click through to the individual welder units as well. We have had FAQ's as well, and no one reads them before they call. We even have big red manual buttons at the top of our site, and no one sees it. We have brochures for most of our product up as well, and I still get calls about getting one. We have our warranty listed along with terms and policy at the top of every page and people get mad at me when I point the terms out and still tell me that they never saw anything about it.
Point is, that, no matter what we do, the gripes, and complaints continue and don't even seem to diminish. Since we put our announcement about the foot pedal arrangement on the site, we regularly get threads just like this one complaining about the fact they didn't know it had a separate knob. People just don't read, and those that do, fewer still have reading comprehension skills. I am not talking about anyone or anything specific here...but it's the overall experience we have. I've even gone a different route lately and just been trying to draw pictures, dumbing down the manuals so to speak, because I get so many calls telling me the manuals don't say anything about such and such...when I know they do but you have to read to find it. People operate off of bullet lists, and diagrams these days. Can you remember when the thermostat controls on a car actually said "Defrost"? People expect simplicity these days, even on complicated product. I get calls just wanting a setting they can weld with for everything... They want all the bells and whistles, but don't want to research, read, and learn what the controls do or how to operate them. Miller has apparently experienced the same issues. They have now offered a greatly "simplified" version of the Dynasty. Select AC or DC, and amps, and you are done.
We are working on a new site for next year...but I wear more hats than just looking after the site...which is probably my least favorite job...but I still do my best.
I hear what you are saying. Back in the day when Tig machines cost $2500+ I think that the average buyer was a bit more educated on the products as they were generally more experienced welders/fabricators. Now a days with the lower entry level pricing in the industry you tend to see more inexperienced/beginner users buying advanced machines and it leads to a whole lot of confusion and questions. I guess its just one of those byproducts of offering a good product for a lower price. Another Idea I had was to utilize Youtube video's in your product pages. Shoot a video of a person going over the operation and features of a unit. With the current video trends it would probably catch the attention of people these days. You could also put all of these videos into a Youtube channel to take advantage of the additional advertising value they have. A short 2-3 minute video per model should allow enough time to cover the important features of the models. Bonus points for an intelligent and attractive female in the videos :D LOL
Chris
Maybe you missed that one as well. lol.
The homepage has those videos. We have a youtube channel. We are adding new product to it. Jody from welding tips and tricks has some on his site as well.
I work with the videos as well. I can tell you 2-3 minutes will NOT cover the basics and people don't have an attention span of 10 minutes to do the job halfway.
Latest one is the PA 140.
I am starting work on the PU205 now. I have to work with whatever I am sent to go over.
:mad: Guess I should visit the main page more often :)
Jeepers Mark, just after I decided to drop the whole issue after seeing all the bigger fish you have to fry with the 250 EXT post I read this... If look back you'll see that my original question dealt with trying to validate a method of using the display to preset the maximum current. It still seems a bit unorthodox to have the primary max current control on the pedal with no remotely meaningful pre-arc display indication except in stick mode. Having the pedal override the panel knob and also changing the operation of the digital display are definitely two different actions. After reading the 250 EXT thread and a few other pedal related posts I get impression (perhaps wrongly) that the overall welder design focus is on torch switch functionality and operation. Perhaps at the expense of the pedal and pedal operation being somewhat of an afterthought (and not strictly a product cost limitation). Is building a version of the pedal with this added control pot really more cost effective than utilizing the existing panel knob and display for TIG pedal operation? I'm not going to even open that can of worms since it's probably not the focus of this forum to entertain detailed design trade-off discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
Would I be happier if the basic display worked in the manner I and some other expected? Sure but I'm satisfied with the basics and my 200 DX continues to enable me to make some darn nice welds.
Gary
Gary,
No these units were designed with the foot pedal in mind. The issue in this case is financial and intentional. It is cheaper way to design a circuit. The 225 and the 250 both work fine. If you want more, you have to pay more...plain and simple. It's easier and cheaper for an auto manufacturer to assemble all cars the same way with all the nice features, but then that leaves out price points and extra profits to be made.
Maybe this thread should be a 'sticky'? Probably save time in the future.