Yeah, that is cheap!
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Yeah, that is cheap!
The place is called Johnstone Supply. Left off the "e" on the last post.
Check around for an AC supply houses and maybe plumbing (Furgueson, etc) as well.
I have a friend that borrows mine all the time and runs them down all the time. He offered to go fill them and I went along. He is not a welder and was using them for copper pipe (he assumed he had to take them to the AC store I guess, not a welding store). So we took them to Johnstone Supply and they swapped a bottle, pretty sure it was $12 first that trip. A light bulb went off in my head.
Turns out they use a local welding supply I use to fill their bottles too. But with the volume they do, you get great a deal buying from the AC guys over the welding guys. Only works for O/A and probably MC sized tanks, but quite a deal.
The very best and cheapest place to get any tanks is..........Craigslist
I found a guy up near Detroit that buys tanks from bankrupt companies and then re-sells them.
For $150, a 125 cft argon or any other tank full of gas. I've bought 5 tanks off him and saved a ton of cash. All almost brand new with recent testings.
Check out Craigslist. It's full of tools and other stuff that weldors use!
PS...don't think you will find any used Everlast welders on Craigslist. There does not seem to be too many people that want to sell theirs.
My last 2 150s were $100 each with gas (both argon). My last 250 was picked up via a $100 deal on and O/A set of tanks and I still have a spare Acetylene tank from that deal to get rid of. Most of my deals are knowing other guys that weld and know they no other guys that want to get out of town and no take the heavy stuff.
And Craigslist, I admit I've bought a welder and tank, then sold the welder off in the past :D
You can find tanks at auctions for decent prices also. My girlfriends great grandfather has tons of tanks he picked up from actions.
Just remember, because you find it on Ebay, or craig's list or its sold at public auction doesn't mean its not a company owned tank or outright stolen. IF you buy a tank like this and it turns out to be a "rental" then you have lost at the very least some money, and possibly could be charged with possession of stolen property. A lot of guys "grind" the name off the neck, but there are ways to identify a rental cylinder... If I bought from some place like this, I'd do my homework.
Take heed with what Mark says above. I had a craigslist deal turn sour, upon meeting in person to find the neck ring had raised lettering, indicating tank was not really his property but was a leased tank. Of course he denied any knowledge of it being leased.
Also, remember to factor in fuel cost of your "tank delivery rig" if you are considering at driving very far out of your normal path to get a tank. it can easily make a good deal, not so good.
That said, after a little negotiating, I did score an empty, inert gas owner ~330 cf tank for just $100 cash on craigslist, a great deal even after burning up some truck fuel to get to it.
Rentals are generally the 200 to 300 CFT sizes due to government mandates. Renting a smaller tank just does not make good economic sense. I asked the manager at the local welding supply store about that and he told me that they usually never check the smaller tanks for ownership especially if you are a regular customer. As long as it does not say RENTAL on it, you are good to go!
The tanks I bought were owned by a company that is now out of business in the Detroit area and so the LWS had no trouble exchanging them. The guy who sold them sells tons of them and buys from auctions. I figured I saved around $700 on my tanks by buying from Craigslist off this guy. All are 125 CFT tanks and when bought were full. He carries argon, 75/25, and O/A tanks.
All the tanks I have had raised lettering and that has never been an issue with getting refilled.(actually exchanged) The only thing that gas companies will not do is exchange tanks from another vendor....like Airgas tanks at a Matheson dealer. Here is a cool video from a weldor friend Freddytk421......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndGB-Ww47M4 that explains the legal issues of tanks.
I do agree that you should do your homework though. I never would buy an adulterated tank. Also make sure that the tank has been tested within the last few years. Some folks have tanks that have been around a while and sell them. Then you get them and find out that they need to be tested. You have to pay for that test.
Here is a link to a US military site for the markings on pressure vessels.....http://www.usamma.army.mil/assets/do...20Markings.pdf
Steve,
You have Rental tanks. IF they have the company's name on them, they ARE stolen. This guy is probably buying them for 10 or 15 bucks from a Junkie who has been peddling the tanks he has on his work truck and selling his company's leased cylinders. This guy is definitely a fence. Why else would they put their name on them? What you are doing is flying under the radar. If you are taking them in for refill, and they are swapping them out, then they are either turning a blind eye OR they are assuming that you are paying rent. I've seen his videos. You need to rewatch it. It says along as it does NOT have the welding companies name you are good to go.This is a case of selective listening. In fact the video supports EVERYTHING we have said here... Airgas for one does NOT mark their tanks rental...NONE of mine have rental on them and all 4 of them are on lease. Some companies have been caught refilling stolen tanks. Others continue to do it unscrupulously for a quick buck but when they get caught its a major fine. Just because the company may have gone out in your area, does not mean that they are fair game. If they are still in business somewhere, then they belong to that company still. They also were probably bought out by an existing gas company and all their cylinders became the new owners property. Cylinders can last for 60 or 70 years and still be fine. For instance the other day, I got a tank that said "Union Carbide" on them and I questioned the company about them because I wanted to make sure they had not made a mistake, and after 3 or 4 mergers, they were acquired by air gas in my area.
I think you and I are pretty much saying the same thing....but your assumptions are way out!Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
First I did not say that all rental tanks have rental on them. But if you come across a tank with RENTAL on them....stay away as you will not be able to get them exchanged.
You missed the most important part......as long as they are not the big tanks...200cft and up......the small ones can have names on them and not be a problem. I've talked to several gas dealers about this as I did have some questions. All said the same thing. The tanks 150 cft and under are not a problem as long as they don't say RENTAL on them. When I went to refill them, I asked the manager about the name on the tanks and they said the same as the video.....names are OK on smaller tanks....it even says so in printed letters on the screen in the video.
And no.....the company that was in business is totally out of business....it was a fabrication shop and had only one location. They owned the tanks outright. So they could not have any other place. I even checked with the guy I bought them from and he showed me the receipts he has for the tanks....bought from an auction company who specializes in company shut downs. The tank is marked "Toledo Oxygen & Equipment" and has a Matheson sticker....so Toledo Oxygen was bought legally from them and now can be refilled at a Matheson dealer. The area around Toledo and Detroit is an economic disaster with many fabrication and other businesses tied to the auto industry going out of business for good. I even called the Matheson dealership and they said my tank was good to own after our discussion here.
So no, my tanks are not rentals...they are not stolen.....one has a company name on it but the company is no longer in business. The guy I bought from does this as a business and specializes in buying and selling welding supplies and equipment from auction. He's been doing it for over 25 years. I found out about him from a friend who knows this guy well. He's up in Michigan and I drive up there every once in a while to buy a tank or two from him. I'm near Cleveland but it is worth the couple of hours drive to get them.
As you say though....."Caveot Emptor". Let the buyer beware.
Steve,
What the problem is, is that there have been lawsuits between the companies over this very thing. The major companies pretty much agreed to disagree on the issue. SOME of these companies WILL fill the smaller ones because they aren't their major market. They still are likely stolen. The big bottle business was what was the major problem. Its their core market. They can live with losses of the small units and do turn a blind eye to it. They have all settled to allow the smaller ones to be filled, though technically its NOT their property.
Mark, I am at a loss to figure out why you think they are stolen.:confused: Maybe it's me....but this guy is a business man and has been doing this for many years. I'm sure that if he was doing anything illegal, then he would have been caught by now. As I said, he is a friend of a friend and they vouch for him. I saw receipts.Quote:
Originally Posted by performance
His business is buying and selling used welding equipment and tanks. He even has a store.
I guess anything you buy on E-bay or Craigslist could be likely stolen. E-bay is loaded with small tanks. Using your logic, all small tanks are probably stolen at one time or another.
I was just at Valley gas today and they told me that they sell unmarked 250 cft tanks still. The marked rental tanks have a plastic collar around them now a days and have a UPC code on them to track them better.
We will have to agree to disagree on this. I just hope our little discussion gave some information to others that can be used.
Sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread.
If there is no name on the tanks, that would mean they are perfectly ok? Is that what you are saying? I have been thinking about picking up a couple tanks from my girlfriends grandfather but would like to know that I will be ok. What should I look for on the tanks other than a rental marking?
I think anytime you buy a used cylinder you take a chance on buying a stolen tank. Tanks always walk away from job sites, plant shut downs etc. A local paper mill where I grew up provided all welding gases during their shutdowns. I know people who unloaded old tanks for new ones, and not to mention nobody checked. People would probably return the tanks, but they would get caught. The company my dad worked for gave a $25.00 reward for returned tanks. Sometimes scrap collectors would bring them in thinking they could sell them back, they did not know the company owned the bottles.
You all need to just rent your tanks. I bought my first two thinking I was smart but then found out I wanted bigger tanks. I have an account at AirGas so they let me trade my tanks in for rentals at no loss. If you buy them off eBay you that won't happen.
Now if I want to go bigger or smaller I just go get the tank I want. My 99.999 250 helium is a rental only tank anyway. The other thing is the testing that needs to be done and what happens if you buy a tank and it won't test sat.. You end up buying another new tank. If it's a rental you never have to worry about that. My two 250's run me 29.00 a month through AirGas. I pay for the gas up front.
Just my .02
Steve - glad to see you back on the forum. Hope you stay for a while. :cool: And I hope to hear an update on your ambitious aluminum boat project as well, when you are ready to give it. ;)
I must say, all the issues you have stated regarding owner/customer-owned cylinders, are not issues at all where I live, with my local welding supplier. I can totally see these practices varying from one area of the country and perhaps even from one supplier in a locale to another in the same locale. But, here is how the one I use operates:
* They will gladly take an "internet tank" or one that they did not sell you, as an exchange. Even if the tank is not a common size.
* They will gladly substitute a larger tank, charging you the difference in their price they sell the tanks for.
* They will gladly substitute a smaller tank, giving you a credit for the difference in the price they sell the tanks for.
* They don't look at any numbers on the tank at all (at least not when you are down there, doing the tank exchange with them), such as to verify the tank you give them for a current hydro test.
No problems swapping to different gas types, either.
Now I will say it wouldn't be realistic to expect to be able to take advantage of their lenient policies repeatedly, but I think they reason they operate like that is to keep you buying your refills from them. They are happy to keep you as a customer.
Out of everything they sell, gas refills are their single highest profit margin business, according to the manager. Other consumables (like filler rod) next highest, machine sales lowest margin.
I'm going through some rough times right now, seeing Steve back on the forum brought a big smile to my face. Steve, any boat pictures..
On the tanks. I will admit that I have bought 2 or 3 rentals in the process of buying tanks, that is not too bad. There's a date on the tank you have to check (10 year hydro test I think it is), sometimes a letter (think they said it was an A) and a ring as well that help check them. Prax makes it look like a mystery sometimes, Welder Services normally just swaps me. I will see if I can get them to give me "the what to look for list" and post it.
Most tanks under 200 are considered owner tanks anyway to Prax/AirGas, WSI, or treated that way. I did OK on all mine, but it does take a lot of time to get a bunch of good ones.
Steve rental is a safe easy way to go. However, if you are on a tight budget, or cheap like me and willing to put in more time to save some cash. I only have one 250 rental, all others are mine (bwhahaha).. Local shops in trouble and Craiglist are two good places to look. And as stated, be prepared to get tanks that were/are owned by places that are no longer around to fill them unless you stay under 150 size. Call your LWS and check on the smaller ones, but works that way here.
At Vern Lewis welding supply in Phoenix you can purchase a tank and any time you want to up size, the up size cost is the difference in tank prices. I would assume that is how most gas vendors treat owner bottles.
I got a good deal on my tank, if I would have rented, my payments over the last year would have payed for about 70% of the cost to purchase the tank. Purchasing a tank is the best way to go if you plan on welding for a few years (or for some of us here, the rest of our lives). And if the tank size is not correct you can always change out the size when you go to fill it up.
When I went to gas on my mig this year I decided to get a bigger tank and was informed I couldn't because the bigger one were for commercial people. What!! Am I missing something here.Quote:
Originally Posted by DVA
Should not be a problem. Long as you have the money down here, they all will swap you out on owner tanks. But worse case, just get an account setup with them and they will sell you anything you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by trickbiker