New WP20 Torch

UPS delivered my new WP20 Flex Neck Torch last night. I ordered it on Tues. from Alex. Fast delivery as usual.
First impressions out of the box. This thing is WAY smaller then the stock torch that came with my 250ex, and the lead is much more flexible as well. It should give me much more torch control then the big bulky one with stiff a lead that came stock.
That being said we have a problem Houston. After talking with both Mark and Alex, I was told this would be a plug and play hookup. In theory it is, but the water line running from the torch through the torch cover is WAY to small for the barbed fitting for the quick disconnect on my Everlast water cooler. The hose I believe is 5/16. Included with the torch was a separate length of 5/8 hose. Since this extra hose was included, I'm guessing Everlast knows that the hose installed on the torch is not the correct size. The problem I have with this is if I take the torch apart and replace the hose with the one supplied separately, I will have to use a hose clamp to install it on the torch end. I'm not willing to use a hose clamp on the torch end. This end need to be crimped on for a good seal to prevent a water leak. I get a slight drip every now and then from where the water hoses are hose clamped on the quick disconnects to the water cooler. No big deal, when they leak a little I just tighten the clamp a little more and the drip stops. But how are you supposed to deal with a drip inside the torch, and then have to take it back apart every time to fix the problem? Or not even know you have a leak till it gets so bad water is leaking from the torch cover end. The other issue is that the extra hose that was shipped, is around 3" to short, so its not usable anyway.
Its Sat. so I cant call Everlast for a solution. Curious as to how they want to handle this. Seems like they will have to change the hose themselves before shipping these torch's to make them a true Plug and Play item for their machines.
Waiting for a solution as I really want to try out this new torch.

PS. Also supplied was two #5 cups, one long back cap, 1 short back cap, 1 collet body, and two collets stamped 2.0? The collets are to big to fit inside the collet body. No big deal on the consumables, as I was already told that other brands from my LWS would fit these torch's. But just thought I would though in the fact about mismatched consumables parts that are supplied.

Gerald

This is our first shipment, so there may be some bugs. The torch is a good quality torch. The collets may actually fit 2 sizes of tungsten, depending upon how they are split down the side. If they won't fit the collet holder then that is another issue.

Yes, the quick connects will have to be adapted, as I think I did say it did not have the water fittings installed on the end. However, they make adapters so you can bush up the fittings. It should be a quick fix to bush up the lines. A good quality hose clamp should not ever leak...with that said, I know the hose clamp quality is not the best on some of the things we have. The factory has changed the way the water cooler connects since the order was placed.

Please post pictures of what you have. I am thinking it is only a matter of getting a simple adapter. The original lines on the water cooled torches did not match before and always needed to be extended, and adapted. So I am not sure there is a real problem with the very smallest bit of ingenuity being exercised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

This is our first shipment, so there may be some bugs. The torch is a good quality torch. The collets may actually fit 2 sizes of tungsten, depending upon how they are split down the side. If they won't fit the collet holder then that is another issue
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Not sure what size tungsten the collets fit. I'm guessing 1/16 but I don't have any in that size to try. All I have is 3/32. The collets definitely wont fit the collet holder.

Yes, the quick connects will have to be adapted, as I think I did say it did not have the water fittings installed on the end. However, they make adapters so you can bush up the fittings. It should be a quick fix to bush up the lines. A good quality hose clamp should not ever leak...with that said, I know the hose clamp quality is not the best on some of the things we have. The factory has changed the way the water cooler connects since the order was placed.

Yes you did tell me that the water fitting ends did not come with it. When ordering from Alex I got him to send me the disconnects. Problem is they only sent me one. And yes Ive been using the supplied clamps from you guys. Was waiting for the new torch's to come out for a more permanent solution. Been thinking about taking everything to a hose shop and having the ends crimped on. Not liking the idea of a extra connection to bush up to the correct size hose, but this may be the only solution for now. Another concern I have is the water cooler having to push all that water pressure through that small hose. Do you think this will over work the pump? I'm thinking it may be best to take the torch apart and have the larger hose crimped on the torch end. Thoughts? I will wait till my welding cart gets here Tues. to get the hoses to the exact length I need for a clean install since the lengths need to be modded anyway.

Please post pictures of what you have. I am thinking it is only a matter of getting a simple adapter. The original lines on the water cooled torches did not match before and always needed to be extended, and adapted. So I am not sure there is a real problem with the very smallest bit of ingenuity being exercised.

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I will take some pictures and post them up today.

Your local Lowes, or Home Depot should have enough brass fittings to make a adapter.

No,
The lines are fine. Don't change anything in that regard. There isn't any problem with that at all. This is what its designed for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slick

Your local Lowes, or Home Depot should have enough brass fittings to make a adapter.

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Adapter is no problem. I'm more concerned over the high pump pressure to push the water thru the small hose without burning up the pump over time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rugar

Adapter is no problem. I'm more concerned over the high pump pressure to push the water thru the small hose without burning up the pump over time.

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is the coolant under that much pressure? I would think you'd want it at a low flow, and low pressure so it takes the heat with it.

Right now I cool my torch with a barely cracked garden hose, and the return empties out the window :D

A Mark has stated
the Inlet and return Water lines are the correct size and type required for this Torch and no upsizing is required or indeed recommended.
This particular Torch Model was tested and evaluated by a highly respected member of the Welding community and his opinions ( at least for me have a lot of value ) We decided to ask this person to do the evaluation due to his considerable knowledge concerning all aspects of equipment used in the welding Industry. In fact just to throw out another name here Miller recently had him evaluate there new wireless Foot Control.
His thoughts on the Quality of the Torch where very positive and reinforced our own opinions on them.
Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slick

is the coolant under that much pressure? I would think you'd want it at a low flow, and low pressure so it takes the heat with it.

Right now I cool my torch with a barely cracked garden hose, and the return empties out the window :D

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According to the info for the cooler it has 57 PSI max.. Not sure how much the smaller hose raises the working pressure. Mark says its fine so I will leave the hoses as is.

For anyone getting one of these torch's, you need a 1/8" barbed fitting for the torch side, and a 3/16" barbed for the cooler side to fit the extra 5/8" OD hose they supplied with the torch. I couldn't find a double barbed fitting in the size I needed so I used a 1/8" barb with a male fitting on the other end, and a 3/16" barbed with a female fitting and coupled them together. I still need to find some smaller hose clamps to make it look a little more sanitary, and may still have the hoses crimped, but this will do for now.

After getting it all hooked up I sprayed soapy water on the gas fitting and it leaks badly. The bubbles are blowing out from the coupler, not from the crimped hose. Ive plugged it in & out several times, and twisted and wiggled but I cant get a sealed fit. I know its the torch side with the problem, because I did the same test when I first got the welder and hooked up the gas line, and also tested the stock torch again today just to be sure.

Size comparison picture of the stock 250EX torch and the new WP20.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0642.jpg

Adapter for fitting the new torch to the 300 cooler.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0645.jpg

Picture showing how bad the Argon leak is.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0649.jpg

Argon leak problem found. It appears that Everlast uses two different quick connect types, as they should, (the two shouldn't be able to plug in at all and interchange with each other IMO) one for gas and a slightly different style for water. It appears a wrong male quick connect was fitted onto the gas line on the WP20 torch (at least on the one I received). The one on my torch is identical to the ones that came with my water cooler. The one on my stock torch that came with mine is slightly different. You can see the difference between the two gas connects which explains the leak.

The one on the left is on the WP20, and the same as my water connections.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0658.jpg

rugar,

It also appears you have the input and output reversed. The out put should be the reinforced hose. The input should be the thinner one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

rugar,

It also appears you have the input and output reversed. The out put should be the reinforced hose. The input should be the thinner one.

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Heres a better picture of how its hooked up.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/DSCN0661.jpg

So your saying the water needs to flow through the center of the lead first, and then exit the torch to the return side? If I swap the lines, then the larger hose will be the pressure side instead of the return. If I take the "Input" line off and turn on the cooler, water will flow from the line. Nothing that I could find on instructions to really tell you how they are supposed to be hooked up.

From that angle it looks right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rugar

Argon leak problem found. It appears that Everlast uses two different quick connect types, as they should, (the two shouldn't be able to plug in at all and interchange with each other IMO) one for gas and a slightly different style for water. It appears a wrong male quick connect was fitted onto the gas line on the WP20 torch (at least on the one I received). The one on my torch is identical to the ones that came with my water cooler. The one on my stock torch that came with mine is slightly different. You can see the difference between the two gas connects which explains the leak.

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:confused:

if you need a good hose clamp that won't leak go to your local auto parts store and buy some fuel injection hose clamps. they have a little bit different design and tighten from both sides instead of a traditional worm clamp. Still dont think it would be suitable for the inside of a torch but elsewhere they are a good replacement.

Just thought I’d share this, it’s a tool made locally that used SS safety wire to “make” any size clamp, makes a very neat and strong connection if done right.

http://www.akcooltools.com/clamptite.html

Can we stop posting about the cool wire wrap tool? Get a hose clamp.

Sorry Mike must be my CRS kicking in. (Can't remember STUFF)

They say your memory is the first thing to go, eh and I forget what the second thing was.

But hey it works good for me, 0 failures.

Hose clamp is cheaper too. I like the tool, but if they need it working that day...