tig welding a rim

Hey everyone.new.here and kinda new to tig welding. So i got the powerpro256 recently played around with.it on some.scrap metal steal and.alum. got it down well enough as though i thought to persue this rim. I have a job opportunity being.sub contracted.out by a tire and wheel shop in my town making.some extra cash welding cracked rims. Well i will be replacing another guy if all goes well. Unfortunatly this rim i have right now has previously been welded on three times by the other guy and now.by me and he used a spool gun i belive made a mess of things i dont even know what the original crack looks like. The damage is right behind the spoke on a 5 spoke rim. The aluminum there is thick i am having a hard time getting the metal to puddle up and blend with the filler rod i have.i dont know if its aluminum alloy or straight aluminum or how to test. I now see im a little in over my head on knowing materials as of now hope that changes with time only learning by trying will tell. Im curious what settings should i be using approx amps i have tried 100-250 amps adjusted herts from min to max and even messed with ac balance higher balance just swallod my tungsten. Im using 3/32 thoriated tungsten. 100 Percent argon. Also what argon line pressure ahould i be using? I have no interference with wind. Should i maybe try a different style tungsten ? With amps and hrz up high it aeems to blow my filler rod away from the rim thanksk im sure there is more information you may need to make a better estimated guess. Just let me know what im missing

Make sure ground is in the + plus side. Argon at 8Lpm should be fine. Generally with aluminum start with balance at 1 o'clock and hertz at 11 o'clock. Adjust a little each way for your takes. Can you preheat the rim? Also maybe snap a picture and upload it.

Some time back another member here on the forum posted about welding aluminum wheels:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...-crack-repair?

There's a lot of good information in there- Jakeru, the original poster, does an excellent job of documenting and explaining. He stresses vee-ing the crack. If you're cleaning up after that other guy and can't even see the original crack, you may have a tough row to how- good luck with it, and let us know how it goes!

With unknown previous welding, I would remove all of it and get down to the clean base metal. Use a carbide or HSS burr, not an abrasive disc, as they force contaminates into the aluminum. For really thick areas, preheating is nice, but you can also just let the TIG put in enough heat, it just will take a little extra time. If you get everything nice and cleaned, you can lower your AC bal which will give you a bit more heat, too. Start at around 30% and go down from there. Frequency will change how focused the arc is. Near the edges you might go up around 120Hz or higher for good control. To get more heat and a softer arc go lower. To emulate older welders run it at 60Hz. Be sure to establish a puddle before adding filler. Let the cleaning action work on the area and also bring the temp up, then bring in more current and start your puddle. You might want to do some practice on thick scrap material if all you have worked on is thin. Be sure to feather out the amps at the end of your weld and add a little more filler to avoid a crater crack. Let the wheel cool slowly afterwards, if possible throw a heat proof blanket over it to slow the cooling.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

at the end of your weld and add a little more filler to avoid a crater crack.

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And make sure you have post from running and hold it over the end of the weld until it stops to help shield and avoid a crater.

JakeRu has many good threads here, you might want to look at others of his threads as well.

depending on amps and ac balance,a 1/8 tungsten might sort the eroding.
also keep the end of filler rod in the argon shielding,should help avoid issues with it not reaching the pool

Jakeru has some really great posts. I thoroughly enjoy reading about his projects and it makes me wish I could free up more time to weld! Good luck with the rim. It sounds like a cool sub-contracting gig.

I have done a few rims over the years they are all different but looks like you are getting lots of good advice from the forum, one thing you should do is drill a hole around 1/8th so at the end of the crack to stop the crack from moving any further even welding it with out drill it, it can start at the end of the weld later.
Good Luck

Wow i did not expect so many good responses so fast. Unfortunatly i have no clue where the original.crack or puncture was formed as this guy had aboit a 3/8 tall by one inch wide set of beads spanning 2 1/2 inches on the inside that would be hidden by tje tire and on the outside surface a silver dollar size blob. I just know it still was.leaking.on the outer edge of his silver dollar blob in a few areas. The worst part i have noticed whem shaving his welds were all sorts of miniature air pockets. I will try pre heating tje best i can without damaging the wheel surface. Yea lots of helpful pointers thank you guys. Also off topic should i remove my smart.phone from my pocket while welding? I wanna say it has avted a little special after the first day of playing with my welder. Just like a battery should be disconnected from the vehicle.before welding?

Sounds like all the more reason to remove all the bad welding. If there is porosity or impurities, you will be chasing your tail to get them all airtight, and sound.
I weld with my phone in my pocket all the time, but I can see that it could cause issues. It will for sure wreak havoc on calls in progress and most other radio transmissions, close by.
Here is another example of wheel repair where a large area was involved.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...-repair-2.html

FYI, the wheel repair shop I did a lot of wheel weld repairs for wouldn't have taken on a weld repair in the location you describe, (which sounds like it is by the hub - where the wheel fasteners are; correct?). The reason is that their insurance wouldn't have covered it. The only weld repairs allowed were in the areas outboard the safety beads. (e.g., out by the "lip" edges)

Anyhow, someone using a spool gun to repair a wheel sounds like real amateur hour and the resulting "cold start" doesn't have any place on a roadwheel.

Porosity is caused by hydrogen absorbing into the molten aluminum puddle, which can't remain dissolved after solidfication, so causes the gas bubbles/"pores". The hydrogen comes from improper/unclean welding prep. (water has it in it, as does oil, grease, paint and a lot of other things, which you absolutely don't want getting into a structural aluminum weld puddle.) That's good of you to have noticed the porosity, though. Make a point to avoid porosity in your own aluminum welds (if you want them to be strong!)

As to what alloy was likely used, depends on what type of wheel it is. A picture could help here. Most are cast, and would be an alloy of silicon and aluminum. A small few are forged, which could be other alloys (like 6061 alloy). I had great results with 5356 filler rod for pretty much all my wheel repairs, which leaves a stronger, more ductile weld deposit than 4043.

If you are welding near a thick hub I'd imagine you'll need to use a lot of amps. A helium mix would be nice; I really like using helium mix on welding any thick aluminum (and even prefer it on aluminum that isn't so thick). It lets you use a thinner tungsten and penetrate more deeply too.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like the best project to be learning aluminum welding basics on, because if it fails, someone could die. Especially considering (if I understand the repair correctly based on your description) that an insured wheel repair shop probably wouldn't have taken on the repair in the first place, and there already was at least one botched previous weld attempts, and I think you said you were not all that experienced yourself (although good job spotting the porosity on the old welds), but anyway, this is not sounding like a very good combination. Don't mean to discourage you from leaning, just good to be aware of the risks. Hope this helps, and best of luck!

That video really was awesome. I had eben talked to my local welding supply about helium usage they werent to kean on the idea. Im starting to assume they hve little or no experience in the field. I have been doing my research trying.to retain the vast amount of information needed to.tig weld and to tig well. It is coming to me and i feel every time i turn my machine on im adjusting and getting farther along. The repair is actualy in a similar place as the one pictured in the video that rambozo displayed. I do have quite a bit of welding experience under my belt as far as mig welding goes. But i would have to aay this is an entirely different animal and cannot compare the two. About the only thing i can bring from mig welding.is understanding what welding is and how the metals should bond together.

No as far as loading pictures what would be the best way for me to upload some? The weld is not exactly structural in a sense of keeping the rim from falling apart but more or less making it hold up to the air pressure and force of air movement when the tire flexes.

I m going to find everything i need to supply helium to the mix as i should habe gone with my gut feeling on that especially when i had all tje.money from taxes still available.

On a good note i did make adjustments tonight like you guys recommended to settings i also changed from foot to finger trigger and changed from slow speed pulse fo high speed pulse i believe that played a large part in being able to create a nice puddle.

A few new questions. First. im getting a white powdery buildup if i sit in one area to long do you know what would be the cause of that?

Two. I keep running into an issue of balling up the filler rod before it gets to the surface of the rim randomly is there a recomended angle i should both hold the torch and the filler rod in conjunction to the rim surface that would help reduce this ?

I agree i wish i had not taken on this repair due to another guy started it and i wont be taking on any previously repaired units from here forward. The tire shop is a hole in the wall pay cash no uncle sam involved type of businesses and i would like to continue on this venture. I would some day like to be able to leave the current place i work for and go on to owning a legal and reputable fabrication shop. Which at this point i am open to all sorts of fabrication from steele fences to building chassis like i have currently built for myself.

Again thank you guys for all the great advice im taking it all in and running cautiously with this specific repair. I know im ramblimg on and have horrible grammer when it comes to typing

On the white powder, do you mean the cleaning from the balance? Is it a haze around the weld. Again, pictures would really help. See if the balance changes it any.

Balling, maybe bump the gas a little higher, but sounds like to many amps. What diameter tungsten are you using? Try keeping a loose arc for a bit since you can not preheat and see if that helps.

Also note what Jake said on "the insurance". Make sure they are going to cover it and you are not open to anything. 3000+ pounds at 60mph. At least put it on the rear...

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Originally Posted by fullydrooped

A few new questions. First. im getting a white powdery buildup if i sit in one area to long do you know what would be the cause of that?

Two. I keep running into an issue of balling up the filler rod before it gets to the surface of the rim randomly is there a recomended angle i should both hold the torch and the filler rod in conjunction to the rim surface that would help reduce this ?

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I got that powdery stuff too when doing an aluminum manifold repair a few weeks ago.Attachment 10048 I'm not sure what causes it but there was all kinds of crap cooking out of that manifold and it was a p.i.t.a.
When adding filler, back the arc up just enough to dab the filler into the puddle then move forward again. The puddle melts the filler, not the arc.

Uploading pics directly from your computer is the best way, using the forum tool. Attachment 10049 If you have the pics on your desktop, it will be simple to find them with the uploader. You can highlight a group of pictures and choose them rather than one at a time. If you need help, please ask in this > http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...s-to-the-forum thread so that others may benefit.

If you are welding a crack, on an aluminum rim, may be creating a time bomb as it could reform, esecially if you are just trying to weld over the old crack without any joint prep. What you probably have there is an aluminum rim that is very high in magnesium and I'd say you probably should
be very very careful, even if you are experienced at it. Forget the Helium mix. If the welding store doesn't have it, they won't push it, or probably get it. It's not 100% necessary.

The balling is caused probably by holding the torch more than 10 or 15 degrees and the heat is being directed too far in front of the weld and thus making you use more heat to get the puddle going.

I have decided to drop out from repairing rims. They had another one linded up for me i took one look t it and laughed. I will get a pic up on here of it. It had one major crack and two stress cracks along the rise of the lip. As far as aluminum goes for now i will stick with non structural projects. Welding steel however im liking alot and enjoy playing with. Also finally got to test the plasma portion of my machine and it works amazing cuts really smooth just wish my hand were a little more steady for less cleanup

Good choice. You to not need any law suits, etc. Sound like they were beyond repair anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fullydrooped

I have decided to drop out from repairing rims. They had another one linded up for me i took one look t it and laughed. I will get a pic up on here of it. It had one major crack and two stress cracks along the rise of the lip. As far as aluminum goes for now i will stick with non structural projects. Welding steel however im liking alot and enjoy playing with. Also finally got to test the plasma portion of my machine and it works amazing cuts really smooth just wish my hand were a little more steady for less cleanup

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Rims are a lot of work and time to do them right but I make good money on them, because 99% of them are BMW’s, Mercedes-Benz and Porsche rims they always crack in time if you own one you can afford to pay good money to fix it $150 to $200 for aluminum rim and $300 to $350 for magnesium rim it is still cheaper than buying a new one. The last one I did was a BMW and from a dealer was around $1200.00 and $500.00 from a wrecker. I have never got a rim back just take your time, it’s just their money and your time.