New PP256, high frequency start not working

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03-11-2013, 01:16 PM
ScottRussell

New PP256, high frequency start not working

Well, I'm ashamed to say it, but I bought a new PP256 and matching torch cooler unit back in DEC and I just fired it up for the first time yesterday.

I primarily do aluminum TIG work when I'm using it (I'm just a hobbyist, drag racer). I wanted to get used to using the PP256 compared to the old Miller 180 Syncrowave I've used for years.

I dug up a 10"x10" square sheet of .121" and went to lay the first bead and no high frequency start. I ended to doing a couple of hours of practice on the sheet scratch starting, but obviously, I want to get the High Frequency start operational, as this is a brand new unit with zero time on it till yesterday.

I found Everlast through watching Jody Collier's videos on Welding Tips and Tricks and I know he had trouble with the High Frequency start on the PP256 he tested and said there was a set of contacts that were improperly gaped that caused the problem with the unit he tested and there was an easy fix for this.

Can anyone help me make sure that's all I need to straighten this out? The unit welds just fine, and I have yet to test the plasma or the stick functions, but at this point I'm assuming they are OK. I know I should probably be shot for spending a couple thousand dollars and not testing it straight away, but unlike most, my boxes arrived in great condition (no obvious shipping trauma), and I've been gone more than at home lately, so it just is what it is.

Any diagnostic help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott Russell
(731)695-0438 - cell/text
Jackson, TN 38305-2004
03-11-2013, 03:19 PM
Rambozo

Check the HF point gap. They can sometimes get bumped in shipping. I believe the correct gap is about .030" but you can call tech support to get the proper gap for your model and version.
03-11-2013, 03:32 PM
ScottRussell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambozo

Check the HF point gap. They can sometimes get bumped in shipping. I believe the correct gap is about .030" but you can call tech support to get the proper gap for your model and version.

Jody Collier had said to be careful when setting the gap, as there is a capacitor involved that will knock your socks off if you don't discharge it first. I'm hoping to get some technical help from the guys at Everlast with this, as I'm not (as Jody said) fond of peeing my pants lol.

Thanks for the feedback,
Scott
03-11-2013, 03:33 PM
performance

Scott look up in the front of the machine, through the vents when you are firing your torch. You can see if your HF is firing or not. You may also here a light buzz. It's also possible a wire is loose from the HF board. We rarely have seen any HF board failures. If you see the arc, or hear a buzz, it's probably a point gap setting. Make sure your torch is in the negative btw...
03-11-2013, 03:49 PM
ScottRussell

Quote:

Originally Posted by performance

Scott look up in the front of the machine, through the vents when you are firing your torch. You can see if your HF is firing or not. You may also here a light buzz. It's also possible a wire is loose from the HF board. We rarely have seen any HF board failures. If you see the arc, or hear a buzz, it's probably a point gap setting. Make sure your torch is in the negative btw...

Torch is in the negative for sure. I spent a couple of hour welding with it yesterday. Just laying beads on a flat piece of .121" aluminum. Took me a bit to get the frequency and balance where I was getting the quality of weld I was happy with, but overall, after a dozen or so beads of experimenting, it welds pretty well. I even turned on the pulse and ran about 4 beads with it and I've never worked with pulse before. With literally no experience with pulse other than watching Welding Tips and Tricks videos, I was able to lay down some of the most beautiful, uniform beads I've ever done with nothing short of miraculous heat control.

So far I'm very happy with the performance. Just need to get the HF start straightened out so I can stop scratch starting it.

I'm at work all day today, but I'll be at the shop tonight and I will look and listen and see if I see and hear what you are describing. If it does turn out to be a point gap issue, I'll need some help finding where I'm going in the machine and how to discharge the capacitor without shocking myself.

Thanks,
Scott
03-11-2013, 03:55 PM
performance

Will give you a call in 30 minutes or so. Will you be available?
03-11-2013, 04:04 PM
ScottRussell

Quote:

Originally Posted by performance

Will give you a call in 30 minutes or so. Will you be available?

Yes, call the my cell number posted in my original post in this thread.

Thanks!
Scott
03-11-2013, 04:09 PM
acourtjester

1 Attachment(s)

points problem

HI
Here is what my points looked like when I got my 256.
The points are on the left side down low on the front of the electronics inside(looking at the front) .
Another Way to check is hook up the plasma torch and try to cut no hi freq no start.
Many other posts about the same thing most likely its your problem too.

have fun
Tom
03-11-2013, 04:17 PM
ScottRussell

Quote:

Originally Posted by acourtjester

HI
Here is what my points looked like when I got my 256.
The points are on the left side down low on the front of the electronics inside(looking at the front) .
Another Way to check is hook up the plasma torch and try to cut no hi freq no start.
Many other posts about the same thing most likely its your problem too.

have fun
Tom

Were you able to straighten those out and use them? or did they have to be replaced? They look kinda ... discombobulated in that picture.
03-11-2013, 04:22 PM
performance

Things have changed internally since then. And if you have the S-75, it's not even close.
03-12-2013, 02:49 PM
ScottRussell

Quote:

Originally Posted by performance

Scott look up in the front of the machine, through the vents when you are firing your torch. You can see if your HF is firing or not. You may also here a light buzz. It's also possible a wire is loose from the HF board. We rarely have seen any HF board failures. If you see the arc, or hear a buzz, it's probably a point gap setting. Make sure your torch is in the negative btw...

First, apologies to all at Everlast. Not a problem with machine, it was operator error (big surprise, right? lol).

First, I turned on the unit, and check to see if I could see the contacts working or hear them buzzing through the vents in the front cover. I could not.

Next I pulled the back cover, and the main cover, found the contacts at the lower front, checked them with a feeler gauge and they were set dead on .030".

I traced the leads and they were firmly attached at the other end to the board.

Checked all the other plugs, all where firmly connected.

So I sat, staring ... puzzled. I powered it back on, and to my surprise, I clearly saw a blue arc between the contacts upon turning on the machine. I immediately pushed the pedal with my hand (I was kneeling) and ... nothing ... and then, after a few seconds, the arc returned and stayed as long as the pedal was down. ??? What the .. ??? So I stood up, grounded a scrap piece of aluminum, and held the torch close and pushed the pedal again ..... and again ... nothing, but this time I held the pedal down, waiting for the delay I had just seen earlier and it did not disappoint. After a few seconds, the HF start activated and I had an arc. ? ? ?

Ok, so I'm sure most who are reading this are either laughing at me, or wondering where this is going.

Apparently, I FALSELY believed that the up slope, down slope, pre-flow and post flow were ONLY operational in 4T (torch switch mode), and NOT in 2T (pedal mode). After I set those controls to ZERO, I now have instant HF start when I hit the pedal.

All I've ever used in the past was an older transformer machine (Miller 180 Sycrowave), and it does have HF start, but NO other controls. No frequency control, no AC balance control, no pulse. Just amperage, and switching between DC EN and DC EP and AC.

I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) that the knobs slope and flow knobs were inactive when in pedal mode, but obviously that is not the case.

My apologies for the confusion on my part. All part of the learning curve of finally having a machine with "tunability" I guess.

Based on the couple of hours of practice with aluminum, I can't wait to get to work on my first project with this thing. I was able to do some fairly nice looking work with the old Miller with nothing but pedal modulation to "tune" the puddle. This thing is making it easy. I should have bought one of these a LONG time ago :)

Thanks for the call yesterday Mark. I appreciate it, and again, sorry for the false alarm.

Scott
03-13-2013, 02:42 AM
Rambozo

Don't forget that you do need post flow no matter what you're doing.
03-13-2013, 02:53 AM
ScottRussell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambozo

Don't forget that you do need post flow no matter what you're doing.

Thanks! Fortunately I didn't go completely off the reservation :) Still have 8 seconds of post flow.
03-13-2013, 10:13 AM
everlastsupport

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRussell

Thanks! Fortunately I didn't go completely off the reservation :) Still have 8 seconds of post flow.

8 seconds is fine on post flow. If you don't use pre-flow, which I don't quite often, make sure when you first fire up and open the bottle, you tap the trigger a couple times to fill the hose with argon.
03-13-2013, 03:42 PM
Rambozo

Quote:

Originally Posted by everlastsupport

8 seconds is fine on post flow. If you don't use pre-flow, which I don't quite often, make sure when you first fire up and open the bottle, you tap the trigger a couple times to fill the hose with argon.

I have a suggestion for a possible change in the control from 0-10 seconds down to like 0-2 seconds. It would still give plenty of preflow and make it easier to adjust numbers below 1 second.

I'm curious, does anyone use more than 2 seconds of preflow?
03-13-2013, 03:45 PM
performance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambozo

I have a suggestion for a possible change in the control from 0-10 seconds down to like 0-2 seconds. It would still give plenty of preflow and make it easier to adjust numbers below 1 second.

I'm curious, does anyone use more than 2 seconds of preflow?

Bigger torches, longer leads, larger cups, and larger welds require more post flow. Why change it? It gives people what they want...more adjustability. Just off the stop will give sufficient preflow if you don't want much.
03-13-2013, 03:54 PM
Rambozo

Quote:

Originally Posted by performance

Bigger torches, longer leads, larger cups, and larger welds require more post flow. Why change it? It gives people what they want...more adjustability. Just off the stop will give sufficient preflow if you don't want much.

I didn't say to change the post flow. I am aware of the need for long postflow and would even be happy with increasing that longer than the current 25 seconds. (my current machine goes to 50 seconds) It's the preflow that seems on the long side.
03-13-2013, 04:31 PM
performance

It's the same reason for preflow. The gas has to be present and sufficient to reduce porosity on starts. Certain metals need to be completely enveloped in a "cloud" of argon or porosity or weak welds will result. Titanium for one. Most people don't weld it correctly to begin with, but not having enough preflow can be devastating if it isn't welded in a 100% argon atmosphere to begin with.